Student crisis in Quebec

[timvee]

I'll risk touching a political topic, no arguing please; just let everyone have their opinion.
I'm from Quebec and if you follow international news, you probably heard about the crisis between college and university students and the government about education costs. I have my own opinion about it, but I won't post it here. Instead, I am curious to know what people from around the globe think about it. How do things work in your country? Are the students justified in what they do? Let me know what you think!
If you are from Quebec yourselves, please abstain from comment, thank you!

 

[scottish steve]

I think this post is couched in terms which make it ir-relevant. And I am all for not getting into another political thread.

 

[jumper]

There are other forums for this kind of quiz

 

[luvmysuper]

Just a kindly pre-emptive reminder;

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ivility-in-the-Barber-Shop-A-Friendly-Warning

 

[jd_1138]

I know the police in Quebec attacked the protesters and almost killed one person. Were the students being violent first?

Here in the USA, tuition is pretty cheap. I think I only paid about $1500 a year for tuition, books, and fees to attend a state university that offers bachelor's and master's degrees. This was in the mid 90's. But private colleges and universities can be quite pricey.

 

[smalltank]

yea and plenty of protesting here in Socali with college prices going up as well..local community college raised their per unit prices 2-3 times the amount...and?..

 

[Cynomys]

Just by way of information, folks can find news (several recent articles, in fact) on these events from MacLeans magazine on-line (scroll down, the articles are stacked on top of one another, most recent first):

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/category/campus-news-2/

I went to college in the 60s in the U.S. when the campuses were filled with protests. I'm afraid I'll have to pass on expressing my own opinions in re the Quebec events on this forum as I have very strong feelings and would likely cross one or more lines.

As an aside, news from the northland doesn't cross the border too often (and I live in Seattle which is near enough to Canada). Some years back, I went into a large book store in search of a copy of Pierre Trudeau's "Memoirs" and was directed to the humor section, the clerk apparently thinking of the cartoonist Gary Trudeau. He had never heard of the former P.M.

 

[oc_in_fw]

Here is my two cents. After WWII, college became available to a lot of people who would not have had the chance to attend before. Countries like the US and Canada built a strong, educated middle class because of this. Educated workers demand higher pay. Several countries have been slowly eating away at their educational systems, by defunding and hiking the costs, because those in power do not want an educated work force. They want people to know just enough to get the job done, and to keep their mouth shut while doing it. In the past, only the elites and the church (who were, at the time, lackies of the elites) were educated. We (collectively, not the just the US) are slowly moving back in that direction. When even a simple history book costs $150, it is hard for the every day person to afford that. They want workers, not thinkers.

 

[jazzman]

Here in the USA, tuition is pretty cheap. I think I only paid about $1500 a year for tuition, books, and fees to attend a state university that offers bachelor's and master's degrees. This was in the mid 90's. But private colleges and universities can be quite pricey.

These numbers are not even close to being accurate in the US today. State university costs cannot be described as "pretty cheap" now, and costs at private institutions are breathtakingly high.

 

[jamesspo]

College costs in the US have gone up fairly dramatically, and have outpaced overall inflation in the last 20 years (or longer). Prices have gone up for the same reason that they always do - supply and demand. Supply is growing, but relatively slowly. There are fairly significant barriers to entry to create an educational institution (especially on the upper end of the quality scale). At the same time, student loan programs have flooded the market with (relatively) cheap money, increasing the demand for schooling. The result is that prices increase. Whether doing this in the name of "equalizing" access to college is worth the cost is something I'll leave as an exercise for the reader .

Edit: IBTL

 

[Kevan]

$1500 for US tuition? In what universe? Those numbers look wayyy off unless you're talking community college or a small, in-state school with tuition supplemented by a scholarship or other financial aid.

I attended college from 2003-2007. The price of tuition at my smallish, public, and in-state university has increased about 30% since I graduated. I was one of the lucky ones, since I got a ton of scholarships and basically went for peanuts, but I would NOT want to be a student now. It's like throwing money down a hole. It's approaching a Catch 22 situation for the modern college student.

 

[Kentos]

20 years ago 15 credits cost 650.00 at the University of Hawaii. 15 credits cost 9,281 now.

 

[oc_in_fw]

20 years ago 15 credits cost 650.00 at the University of Hawaii. 15 credits cost 9,281 now.

Is that just tuition, or does it include all the extra fees universities seem to come up with (like computer fee, library fee, parking fee, breathing their air fee)?

 

[Kentos]

Edit: it's around 9,000 a year, not a semester.

So not as bad...

 

[Kentos]

One thing for sure is 650 in 1992 is not 4500 in 2012 money.

 

[mretzloff]

I am a fan of the system they have in Germany. You either go onto high school with the intent of going to college or onto a school to finish some studies and then a trade school. This would remove children from college who are only there because it is the social norm, while providing them with training that allows them to work a trade. A large problem in the US is that we are told that if you do not go to college, you must be dumb. This is not true. An honest days work is an honest days work regardless if it is behind a desk or next to a fryer.

I also like the idea of paying nothing for college up front and then paying a percentage of your salary for a certain amount of years after you graduate. I believe one university in Germany has this. This creates a huge incentive for colleges to help you get a job. It benefits both parties because universities could earn hundreds of thousands of dollars, while you graduate debt-free.

Just my two cents.

 

[Matt555]

I know the police in Quebec attacked the protesters and almost killed one person. Were the students being violent first?

Here in the USA, tuition is pretty cheap. I think I only paid about $1500 a year for tuition, books, and fees to attend a state university that offers bachelor's and master's degrees. This was in the mid 90's. But private colleges and universities can be quite pricey.

We are not in the 90's anymore.......

I have never heard anyone say tuition in America is cheap (unless they were being sarcastic)

 

[scottish steve]

It bascially comes down to whether you believe that educating the members of your society is a duty or an opportunity to make as much money from them as possible.
Higher student fees across the board in no way guarantees a better quality of education. We are in the age of increasing debt, increasing prices and decreasing inflation-adjusted salaries for the vast majority. Everything is getting more expensive, except the cost of manpower and "qualification inflation" now means that thousands of graduates can be found burdened with large personal debt and stuck in jobs for which there was no need whatsoever to have gone to university.
I believe the number of positions in further education should be drastically reduced, but that those who make the grade should be given every incentive to work hard and not spend the decade after their graduation worrying about debt or even simply finding a job at all- a meritocratic elite, rather than the de facto monetary elite which is now being created by the short-termists who see only next year's bottom line.
Those who do not go on to become graduates should be given the skills we badly need.
I heard from a colleague a while ago that not only did many Western companies sell all the necessary equipment to make all the products we see made overseas in 2012, but even the machines that make those machines have been sold, leaving a huge skills-gap. It might be seen as reasonable to describe the economy of most Western Countries "Doughnut Economies."

 

[Nils]

I am a fan of the system they have in Germany. You either go onto high school with the intent of going to college or onto a school to finish some studies and then a trade school. This would remove children from college who are only there because it is the social norm, while providing them with training that allows them to work a trade. A large problem in the US is that we are told that if you do not go to college, you must be dumb. This is not true. An honest days work is an honest days work regardless if it is behind a desk or next to a fryer.

I also like the idea of paying nothing for college up front and then paying a percentage of your salary for a certain amount of years after you graduate. I believe one university in Germany has this. This creates a huge incentive for colleges to help you get a job. It benefits both parties because universities could earn hundreds of thousands of dollars, while you graduate debt-free.

Just my two cents.

University in Germany was free until a couple of years ago when tuition fees were introduced. Those proved to be massively unpopular, and most states have by now scrapped them or are in the process of doing so. Here in Bavaria, it costs about 700 Euros per semester, but there are signs that the fee will be history in the not too distant future.

 

[Doc4]

Imagine if everyone had to pay a few thousand dollars a year for highschool ... or all school after kindergarten ... or ???

A lot of our 'norms' were set 100 years ago or more ... when things were much different. Free school up to Grade 12 ... back when highschool education was fine for 90% of the jobs. (Bismark started the age 65 retirement ... when the average life expectancy of a man who made it to retirement was ... 67.

... And I am all for not getting into another political thread.

I... It might be seen as reasonable to describe the economy of most Western Countries "Doughnut Economies."

I find it hard to resist doughnuts too. (At least you didn't spell it "donut". )