Stainless steel versus pot metal
- Thread starter aussie
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I'm no DE shaving expert, but unless you really want to have a razor to pass on to generations a pot metal razor should easily outlast you. I just feel stainless steel razors are considered higher quality and prized for longevity. With the weber so reasonably priced though your choice really is more deciding if spending 30-40 more for SS is practical for your lifestyle.
From a function standpoint, no.
from a pride of ownership standpoint, maybe.
from a pride of ownership standpoint, maybe.
There is always the option of vintage if you want a durable razor:
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Most pot metal razors are plated with chrome which is one of the most durable and hardest wearing plating finishes. So if you're concerned about its durability, I wouldn't be. At the very least, it'd probably last decades as opposed "outliving you."
As for whether SS is "worth it," that's up to you. Personally I like them and how they feel. I find the differences between how say a Weber (stainless) and a Merkur 34c (pot metal) shaves to be minimal, but the Weber just feels a bit more substantial in my hand. However, while a razor like the Weber is cheap as far as stainless razors go, its still a lot of money ($70 US). What razor are you using now?
As for whether SS is "worth it," that's up to you. Personally I like them and how they feel. I find the differences between how say a Weber (stainless) and a Merkur 34c (pot metal) shaves to be minimal, but the Weber just feels a bit more substantial in my hand. However, while a razor like the Weber is cheap as far as stainless razors go, its still a lot of money ($70 US). What razor are you using now?
I have one stainless steel razor - Feather AS-D2. I kept it mostly because it shaves me better than any other DE I've ever tried, not because it's stainless steel. I would say that being stainless is an asset, in that I'll never have to worry about the plating coming off, plus it looks great.
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For now, it is a collection of vintage Gillettes. I have three Gem 1912s for which I have blades on the way. I also have Shick Injectors and Ted Pella blades on the way also.
Interesting question. I shave exclusively with a NDC SS and if I knew what it was composed of at some point I've now forgotten. But, considering that it is now well nigh some 65 years old with no signs of deterioration, I suppose the question, at least as far as I'm concerned on a practical level, is moot.
-Greg
-Greg
In the short term (1-5 years), I think pot metal razors are just fine. They are usually lighter which I prefer.
Although some would disagree, I'm concerned about the long term durability of pot metal razors. Pot metal is brittle, and there are numerous threads about broken razors (ex. screw post breaks off the head). Also eventually the plating will wear and the razor will deteriorate much quicker. For this reason I'm a fan of stainless razors or vintage brass razors which will last a lifetime with proper care.
From Wikipedia:
"Pot metal can be prone to instability over time, as it has a tendency to bend, distort, crack, shatter, and pit with age. The low boiling point of zinc and the fast cooling of the newly-cast part often allow air bubbles to remain within the cast part, weakening the metal. Many of the components of pot metal are susceptible to corrosion from airborne acids and other contaminants, and the internal corrosion of the metal often causes the decorative plating to flake off"
Although some would disagree, I'm concerned about the long term durability of pot metal razors. Pot metal is brittle, and there are numerous threads about broken razors (ex. screw post breaks off the head). Also eventually the plating will wear and the razor will deteriorate much quicker. For this reason I'm a fan of stainless razors or vintage brass razors which will last a lifetime with proper care.
From Wikipedia:
"Pot metal can be prone to instability over time, as it has a tendency to bend, distort, crack, shatter, and pit with age. The low boiling point of zinc and the fast cooling of the newly-cast part often allow air bubbles to remain within the cast part, weakening the metal. Many of the components of pot metal are susceptible to corrosion from airborne acids and other contaminants, and the internal corrosion of the metal often causes the decorative plating to flake off"
All SS is not created equal, it is in essence steel with chromium mixed in when it is made. The amount of chromium mixed in will dictate how truly stainless the SS is. The fact of the mater is that even SS can rust especially SS with a low chromium content. You never know what kind of SS these companies are using, one would hope a high chromium content but who knows.
Thus with a plated razor you are "guaranteed" a layer of just chrome which is IMO far more corrosion/rust resistant than any SS. That being said I would almost go as far as to say that plated razors are the way to go. The other interesting issue is environment, the air you live in has a lot to do with how metals react. Think of a car sitting in the arazona desert vs the east coast. If you are between two razors I would say the extra money does not really buy you anything.
Regards
Dave
Thus with a plated razor you are "guaranteed" a layer of just chrome which is IMO far more corrosion/rust resistant than any SS. That being said I would almost go as far as to say that plated razors are the way to go. The other interesting issue is environment, the air you live in has a lot to do with how metals react. Think of a car sitting in the arazona desert vs the east coast. If you are between two razors I would say the extra money does not really buy you anything.
Regards
Dave
I agree with TM3. From a functionality standpoint there is no advantage at all to stainless steel except for the heft, but they're really, really nice to have. Whether you want to pay the premium for an SS razor is up to you, but mostly you'll be paying for the production costs and the fact that an SS DE is a real niche item. That said, I love mine and wouldn't part with them.
While pot metal is still probably going to last for decades as long as the plating stays intact, I'd still prefer more modern razors to be made from brass. I have a Gillette New that's probably 80 years old and that had most of the plating missing when I got it. A quick trip to Dave at Restored Razors and it's good as new, you can't do that with pot metal.
Dave: Some vendors, ATT and Weber for example, do list what kind of steel they're using.
While pot metal is still probably going to last for decades as long as the plating stays intact, I'd still prefer more modern razors to be made from brass. I have a Gillette New that's probably 80 years old and that had most of the plating missing when I got it. A quick trip to Dave at Restored Razors and it's good as new, you can't do that with pot metal.
Dave: Some vendors, ATT and Weber for example, do list what kind of steel they're using.
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Number of thread about their modern pot metal razors snapping off due to corrosion - lots
Number of threads about their modern pot metal razor corroding under the plating, or flaking issues - lots
Number of threads about their stainless steel razor showing rust spots - some
Number of threads about plating flaking off their 40+ year old vintage razor - few
Number of threads about heads snapping off their 40+ year old vintage razor - few
Number of threads aboutmetal corrosion on their 40+ year old vintage razor - few
Number of threads about their modern pot metal razor corroding under the plating, or flaking issues - lots
Number of threads about their stainless steel razor showing rust spots - some
Number of threads about plating flaking off their 40+ year old vintage razor - few
Number of threads about heads snapping off their 40+ year old vintage razor - few
Number of threads aboutmetal corrosion on their 40+ year old vintage razor - few
Hi,
I have a generic (no name on it) slant made in Solingen Germany in the 1930s which is made of pot metal. It has no plating anywhere, and that makes me think it was not plated in the first place. It is still in fine working condition, even though not a 'looker'. The handle is no longer useable due to the threads being worn. I use a brass Gillette bar handle on it, which was replated in rhodium. Makes the Slant look a lot better to boot. At least the handle is shiny!
The pot metal handle is not the only one I have with worn out threads. I have a Gillette Fat Handle from a Tech just as worn out, and that one is brass.
I have my Grandfather's 1920s Gillette Old Type, which was sliver plated. Much of the plating is gone, so it looks worse than the pot metal Slant does. But, it still works fine, even with the crack in the handle.
My original Early Tech, which I have been using since Dad handed it to me in 1976 has lost the nickle plating off both safety bars. Otherwise it has the plating still intact.
Stainless is something one has to watch. There are many grades, all based on the amount of chromium in the alloy. The greater the amount of chromium, the harder it is to work with. All of the stainless razors I have looked up use a low chromium alloy, so there is a fairly good chance of seeing some light surface rust form on them. At least early on in use, as the lower chromium content will leave free iron on the surface to then bind with oxygen in the water.
They use such a grade of stainless because they need to work it into the shape of a razor. It is not a major problem, but one does need to be aware so one is not surprised should a little rust show up. Just go look at the thread for the Ikon Slant where the head design is trapping water and leading to some folks being surprised by a light rust film.
If I were to get busy making myself a razor in my machine shop, I would use 304 stainless, which will not rust at all, but I would have to start with chunks of metal and cut away everything that does not look like a razor. 304 is a really *hard* alloy! That would be a lot of time and effort, so I live with my brass and pot metal razors.
Oh, and my favorite razor is made of plastic. A Fasan Double Slant. They chose plastic because of the great amount of twist needed in the cap and plate. Much easier to use plastic than even pot metal. I did mate it with a Fat Tech handle, though, not liking the matching plastic handle.
Stan
I have a generic (no name on it) slant made in Solingen Germany in the 1930s which is made of pot metal. It has no plating anywhere, and that makes me think it was not plated in the first place. It is still in fine working condition, even though not a 'looker'. The handle is no longer useable due to the threads being worn. I use a brass Gillette bar handle on it, which was replated in rhodium. Makes the Slant look a lot better to boot. At least the handle is shiny!
The pot metal handle is not the only one I have with worn out threads. I have a Gillette Fat Handle from a Tech just as worn out, and that one is brass.
I have my Grandfather's 1920s Gillette Old Type, which was sliver plated. Much of the plating is gone, so it looks worse than the pot metal Slant does. But, it still works fine, even with the crack in the handle.
My original Early Tech, which I have been using since Dad handed it to me in 1976 has lost the nickle plating off both safety bars. Otherwise it has the plating still intact.
Stainless is something one has to watch. There are many grades, all based on the amount of chromium in the alloy. The greater the amount of chromium, the harder it is to work with. All of the stainless razors I have looked up use a low chromium alloy, so there is a fairly good chance of seeing some light surface rust form on them. At least early on in use, as the lower chromium content will leave free iron on the surface to then bind with oxygen in the water.
They use such a grade of stainless because they need to work it into the shape of a razor. It is not a major problem, but one does need to be aware so one is not surprised should a little rust show up. Just go look at the thread for the Ikon Slant where the head design is trapping water and leading to some folks being surprised by a light rust film.
If I were to get busy making myself a razor in my machine shop, I would use 304 stainless, which will not rust at all, but I would have to start with chunks of metal and cut away everything that does not look like a razor. 304 is a really *hard* alloy! That would be a lot of time and effort, so I live with my brass and pot metal razors.
Oh, and my favorite razor is made of plastic. A Fasan Double Slant. They chose plastic because of the great amount of twist needed in the cap and plate. Much easier to use plastic than even pot metal. I did mate it with a Fat Tech handle, though, not liking the matching plastic handle.
Stan
One of my other hobbies is drumming. I've owned a number of drumsets and even assembled a few. My first few kits were dirt cheap imports with chromed plastic with cross threading, broken pieces, and terrible craftsmanship. I've owned top end kits from Japan and the US as well. Almost all the hardware is cast steel with flawless chrome. The best stuff still has brass inserts to prevent threading issues with the steel connectors.
But my current kit is a 1973 Slingerland made in the good old USA. The hardware is so different. Almost everything is machined from solid steel rather than cast. Functionally it's not a lot different, but the quality is better. It's built to last decades instead of years. You get the sense that they were crafted rather than simply assembled off a line.
Anyways, I don't think there's going to be a huge issue with the pot metal razors vs stainless steel. I can't see a Muhle corroding after just a couple years. They probably won't last a lifetime like an old brass razor but for most of us, they are toys rather than tools.
But my current kit is a 1973 Slingerland made in the good old USA. The hardware is so different. Almost everything is machined from solid steel rather than cast. Functionally it's not a lot different, but the quality is better. It's built to last decades instead of years. You get the sense that they were crafted rather than simply assembled off a line.
Anyways, I don't think there's going to be a huge issue with the pot metal razors vs stainless steel. I can't see a Muhle corroding after just a couple years. They probably won't last a lifetime like an old brass razor but for most of us, they are toys rather than tools.
Usually the first thing to fail in a pot metal three piece razor is the threading whether it's the handle or the cap. Pot metal isn't going to hold up over the years as compared to vintage Gillettes.
I also have an AS-D2 and was looking into engraving it, however after much research it turns out that although Feather razors are SS, they are in fact then played with a satin chrome finish. So no engraving for me!
I have also heard of people with SS razors having issues with rust spots from the blades being left in for a few days. This is not an issue with the Feather though. So best of both worlds!
Worth is always a highly subjective matter regardless of topic and you can't really poll to determine worth for yourself. Additionally, stainless DE's aren't all identical. Then there's also the matter of any given DE (regardless of material) not being the best option for everyone out there. It's difficult to answer such a vague question. They're clearly worth it to some and not worth it to others from looking at threads on the topic. You'd really have to give us a better idea of where the line in the sand is for you and what would make one worth it or not worth it to you if you want us to attempt to answer your question.
Some have broken their pot metal DE's either because of defects or from damage. I've never had problems with my pot metal DE's but I do appreciate my stainless DE. I can tell you the AS-D2 is worth it to me (though I did get it via Massdrop for a bit less than the usual retail) and I'm possibly considering some others but have not really looked into the matter. The AS-D2 doesn't drastically perform better than my prior preferred DE, the DE89. It is a better material. I like the way it looks. I like the way it feels. I like its heft and proportions. I like its build quality and fit and finish. Its price didn't bother me as it's something that I use and appreciate on a daily basis and seems like a DE that I could use for the rest of my life. That said, YMMV depending on your needs, wants, preferences, priorities, budget and so on. I can't speak for other stainless DE's as I have no experience with them.
It might be more productive to look at the stainless options and to select a few that sound suited to you to discuss specifically.
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