So I've been at this honing thing for about a month now. I'd say I've put in a good 25-30 hours honing; ar perhaps trying to hone would be more accurate. I have been getting somewhat better. The edge I'm getting feels sort of close to the edge Ambrose put on a str8 for me, at least it feels that way to my thumb pad. But when I try to shave with it, the gap is plainly enormous. I really try to keep the blade level and my action smooth and just as light as I can make it. I've rounded off the edge of my 4k and 8k sides as Leighton recommended. I keep the stones good and wet while I'm working. I did discover that I got a little bit better of an edge with a few passes on a dry 8k at the end. And my stropping definitely improves the edge a bit more, but I still can't really get a good shave with my edge. I don't think it's over-honing. I do a pyramid starting with 25/25 on the 4k/8k (after setting the bevel with the 1k) and when I think I'm getting close I'll do like ten more passes on the 8k and feel, then maybe two more sets of ten before the dry passes and then on to the strop. So what do you more experienced guys think I'm most likely doing wrong?
So-so edge with 8k. Now what?
- Thread starter Rick Sparks
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I view the 4k/8k as the starting stone, not the finisher. You need one more stone beyond the 8k. Opinions vary on which stone kicks which other stone's @$$, whose got the biggest stone with the smallest grit, and whether pasted strops are the be-all-and-end-all or a fool's paradise.
Look into a yellow coticule, a thurigan/escher, chinese 12k, or a manmade version in about a 12k-15k range. Only one is probably all you "need" ... heh heh heh.
Look into a yellow coticule, a thurigan/escher, chinese 12k, or a manmade version in about a 12k-15k range. Only one is probably all you "need" ... heh heh heh.
I think the US government got that one - the highway system is pretty large and pretty low grit rating.
aside from a smart *** comment, i guess i can agree - try a finer hone and see where that gets you. or some pastes.
Assuming you've been lapping it every hundred laps or so, then the culprit may be too much pressure. You should be able to shave comfortably off the N8k. One trick is to fold the scales back so they help counterbalance the weight of the blade in front of the spine. Then just sort of slide it down the hone with your pinky under the tail and your forefinger behind the spine.
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I've been lapping pretty regularly. I do have the scales out straight from the blade, supported by my pinky. And I'm certainly trying to have only the weight of the razor be the only pressure.
A number of honers have said that you should be able to shave off the 8k. Well, I can shave off the 8k, but it's not a good shave. So maybe the solution is to get a naniwa chosera 12k or something like that. I just don't want to be getting the finer stone if the problem really is my technique.
A number of honers have said that you should be able to shave off the 8k. Well, I can shave off the 8k, but it's not a good shave. So maybe the solution is to get a naniwa chosera 12k or something like that. I just don't want to be getting the finer stone if the problem really is my technique.
Sounds like you've gotten almost as much as you can get out of the 8k. The edge off the 8k should be good enough to shave with or pretty close. Pretty close is probably good enough for self honing.
Did you try shaving with it? If it shaves acceptably, take it to the carborundunum and do laps in sets of 5-10 until you can't get any better. Remember, stop when you stop noticing an improvement. More strokes runs the risk of doing something stupid. e.g., dragging the edge along the hone.
But thats pretty good, edge pretty close to Ambrose's is about as good as the 8k gets I would say. Now remember how that edge behaves and passes your tests, that way you know when to stop in the future.
I am 90% sure the problem is your technique, so if you want to improve on it there's just more practice and patience.
If you're not convinced send one of your razors to a norton pro (I can think of at least 2-3 guys who would probably be happy to help you with that) and you'll likely be very surprised. Sometimes it takes a benchmark to convince you it's possible and then you can do it.
No, I'm saying angle the scales back somewhere around 120 degrees or so. This will help counterbalance the weight of the blade in front of the spine, so you're honing with *less* than the weight of the blade on the hone. You'll still need your pinky work because there's still a torque on the blade, but it makes it easier to get that light touch.
Rick, if you want a benchmark for an 8k stone, you can send me that razor and I'll finish it for you on just an 8k so you can know how sharp it can get off an 8k. I'd say I could do it on one of the other razors, but they're almost back at your place already if the PO isn't sleeping.
Hey Rick im glad your still in the straight razor scene congrats for not giving up. 
I really enjoy reading about your progress.
Sounds like you are going in the right direction, I love a nice sticky edge to my thumb pad. All you really need is a finishing stone 12k or beyond if you like.
Just so you know Ive spent over 50 hrs on just researching the differences in stone material and their consistencies in shape in various grit particles. Ive also spent months of experimenting and developing my own personal techniques along with honing a bunch of razors. Basically everyones edge is different and every razor is also different. Once you are able to develop an edge that you feel comfortable to shave with thats all that really matters. Also just so you know I use naniwas and a nakayama kiita, TM cotton, red latigo, and horsehide. I have my own techniques and a bevel setter that I never reveal.
I will offer you something via PM.
Keep it up youre on your way to the satisfaction of self honing!
I really enjoy reading about your progress. Sounds like you are going in the right direction, I love a nice sticky edge to my thumb pad. All you really need is a finishing stone 12k or beyond if you like.
Just so you know Ive spent over 50 hrs on just researching the differences in stone material and their consistencies in shape in various grit particles. Ive also spent months of experimenting and developing my own personal techniques along with honing a bunch of razors. Basically everyones edge is different and every razor is also different. Once you are able to develop an edge that you feel comfortable to shave with thats all that really matters. Also just so you know I use naniwas and a nakayama kiita, TM cotton, red latigo, and horsehide. I have my own techniques and a bevel setter that I never reveal.
I will offer you something via PM. Keep it up youre on your way to the satisfaction of self honing!
20 laps is what you are away....
The Norton 8k is perfectly capable of giving a much smoother edge than most people can achieve just by using one stupid trick...
If you go way back in the archives here and on SRP you are going to find this trick from when I posted it way, way, back... Anyway once you get it as sharp as you can using the stone wet....
Rinse the stone and do exactly what Mr Parker says, light, light, perfect pressure only take the laps very, very, slow and let the N8k go slowly dry stop honing once the stone goes to dry... Should be between 10-20 laps this will get the absolute max outta the N8k
Basically if you can't shave comfortably off the N8k going to more stone isnt going to give much more....
.50 CrOx after the N8k does about the same thing...
The Norton 8k is perfectly capable of giving a much smoother edge than most people can achieve just by using one stupid trick...
If you go way back in the archives here and on SRP you are going to find this trick from when I posted it way, way, back... Anyway once you get it as sharp as you can using the stone wet....
Rinse the stone and do exactly what Mr Parker says, light, light, perfect pressure only take the laps very, very, slow and let the N8k go slowly dry stop honing once the stone goes to dry... Should be between 10-20 laps this will get the absolute max outta the N8k
Basically if you can't shave comfortably off the N8k going to more stone isnt going to give much more....
.50 CrOx after the N8k does about the same thing...
Ummmm No actually I always thought these forums were all about sharing the info we learned,,, But obviously I have been wrong all these years and should never have shared things with all the restorers and honers that I learned by my hard work... Should have kept all those guides and tricks to myself selfishly hoarding that info from everyone..... Hmm maybe Mr Parker could keep all his info that everyone loves, or Randydance, or Lynn or Bill Ellis or the rest of the people that have done so much to help all of the rest of the straight razor community
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I'll second the slowness. When I used the Norton, my last few laps were taking 8-10 secs each way. No starting and stopping just a smooth slow slide with the edge barely touching the hone, using less than the weight of the blade.
I actually use a Braun 9001 electric. I've just been BSing yall all these years. Surprised no one's caught on.
I actually use a Braun 9001 electric. I've just been BSing yall all these years. Surprised no one's caught on.
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Dont take any offense Glen, I help where I can and offer free honings when I can as well as cheap deals on restored straights for people that want to get started in straight shaving. I know all your and everyone else's hard work and insight is appreciated.
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Yes thank you OUR hard work and insights are appreciated...
Trust me there is no offense on my part, I very, very much doubt that yer secret stone and technique is anything as special as you might think ... That is what really cracks me up...
But the way you put that, just struck me as one of the most selfish things I have seen on these forums...Most people seem to want to share new tricks but I guess not everyone...
Gents, lets follow decorum and respect the others point of view and leave it at that.
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