Shavemac 2-Band Silvertip Question

[macintoshBR]

I don’t own a Shavemac in 2-band, but own 3 Simpson’s Chubbies in Manchurian Badger

The Chubby 1 took around 20-30 uses to relax and now is one of my favorite brushes. Initially it was awfully stiff and scritchy I was regretting buying

The Chubby 2 has over 50-60 lather cycles and just now is becoming usable. It’s too dense and short lofted for this type of hair

The Chubby 3 was perfection out of the box. Less dense and much higher lofted than the Chubby 2, I think the specs are perfect in this brush

So, what I want to say is, 2-band hair can be heaven or hell depending on density, loft, and how deep the knot is set into the handle. The good news is, they do relax and break in, so hang in there. To speed it up, lather up in your hand with a bath soap every day for a couple of weeks and you will get to the final state a lot faster. It might still not be pleasant though, depending on the specs

 

[macintoshBR]

None of mine, nor the other folks on this thread with Shavemac 2-band Silvertip experience, report anything like the "spikiest, harshest brush" you experienced.

Well, many here claimed their Shavemac 2-band brushes are scritchy. From scritchy to harsh there’s not much difference if your skin doesn’t like scritchy. I’d bet some don’t want to be so open about it, but in fact they are not satisfied with their brushes. It happens… natural variety, brush specs and personal preferences make a big impact in how the same brush will be perceived by different folks.

for me, I much prefer a good 3-band Silvertip. Guaranteed soft out of the box and just feels great

 

[never-stop-learning]

Well, many here claimed their Shavemac 2-band brushes are scritchy. From scritchy to harsh there’s not much difference if your skin doesn’t like scritchy. I’d bet some don’t want to be so open about it, but in fact they are not satisfied with their brushes. It happens… natural variety, brush specs and personal preferences make a big impact in how the same brush will be perceived by different folks.

for me, I much prefer a good 3-band Silvertip. Guaranteed soft out of the box and just feels great

Just relaying my own experience with the 2-band Silvertip and owning several of them. "Scritchy" is not a term I would use to describe any of my 2-band Silvertip brushes. They are incredibly consistent in feel and performance. Decent backbone, balanced scrub, zero "scritch".

Just my opinion and, as always, YMMV.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Well, many here claimed their Shavemac 2-band brushes are scritchy. From scritchy to harsh there’s not much difference if your skin doesn’t like scritchy. I

By my estimation, ~3 posters (going back to 2019) complained of excessive "scritch".

Maybe there is variation from year to year, but I haven't noticed it.

BTW, I also love, use and enjoy my Simpson Badger brushes.

That's one of the really cool thing about this hobby - the huge variety of stuff. Something for everyone.

 

[macintoshBR]

Just relaying my own experience with the 2-band Silvertip and owning several of them. "Scritchy" is not a term I would use to describe any of my 2-band Silvertip brushes. They are incredibly consistent in feel and performance. Decent backbone, balanced scrub, zero "scritch".

Just my opinion and, as always, YMMV.

Yes, YMMV. For you a Karve G plate is a walk in the park, for many (or shall I say most) it’s an unnecessarily aggressive razor. Your skin is probably much tougher than average

that’s why different opinions are still valid, even if they are just a few, and different than yours

 

[macintoshBR]

By my estimation, ~3 posters (going back to 2019) complained of excessive "scritch".

Not to be over polemic and open a non-sense argument, but there are 6 posters in this very thread mentioning the words “Shavemac 2-band” and “scritchy” in the same sentence

 

[never-stop-learning]

Not to be over polemic and open a non-sense argument, but there are 6 posters in this very thread mentioning the words “Shavemac 2-band” and “scritchy” in the same sentence

Please notice the term "excessive".

 

[never-stop-learning]

Yes, YMMV. For you a Karve G plate is a walk in the park, for many (or shall I say most) it’s an unnecessarily aggressive razor. Your skin is probably much tougher than average

that’s why different opinions are still valid, even if they are just a few, and different than yours

Everyone has different opinions on this stuff and they are valid for that person.

Rather than take this any further, as it appears that I have done something to offend you, I will take my leave of this discussion.

If I have misinterpreted this exchange, please PM me and we can discuss things in a collegial manner.

 

[Steve_in_CT]

As one of the folks who found the Shavemac 2 band silvertip too "scritchy", I would offer two possible explanations that are not mutually exclusive. The first is variation of natural hair in shaving brushes. It has been my experience over the years that the same knot from the same manufacturer is not, in fact, the same knot. In theory the manufacturer inspects all of the hair and strives for consistency, but that has not been my experience with several manufacturers, including Simpsons and The Golden Nib. I know that several forumites who have seen many Shavemac 2 band sivlertip knots and brushes (e.g. @Rudy Vey and @never-stop-learning) vouch for the consistency of these knots, but if 2 or 3 percent are "off" from the standard, it is still quite possible that the few of us who are not happy with the Shavemac 2 band are owners of those brushes.

My second explanation is of the YMMV variety. I traded away my Shavemac 2 band because it was too scritchy for me, and therefore just not enjoyable to use. But then I also sold my Simpsons Trafalgar brush because I found it too prickly. Maybe what I find to be too prickly or scritchy is just comfortable scrub to most others. Since these two explanations are not mutually exclusive, it is entirely possible that my Shavemac was a bit more scritchy than most, but I am just very sensitive to that aspect of a brush's performance.

 

[gdawg55]

As one of the folks who found the Shavemac 2 band silvertip too "scritchy", I would offer two possible explanations that are not mutually exclusive. The first is variation of natural hair in shaving brushes. It has been my experience over the years that the same knot from the same manufacturer is not, in fact, the same knot. In theory the manufacturer inspects all of the hair and strives for consistency, but that has not been my experience with several manufacturers, including Simpsons and The Golden Nib. I know that several forumites who have seen many Shavemac 2 band sivlertip knots and brushes (e.g. @Rudy Vey and @never-stop-learning) vouch for the consistency of these knots, but if 2 or 3 percent are "off" from the standard, it is still quite possible that the few of us who are not happy with the Shavemac 2 band are owners of those brushes.

My second explanation is of the YMMV variety. I traded away my Shavemac 2 band because it was too scritchy for me, and therefore just not enjoyable to use. But then I also sold my Simpsons Trafalgar brush because I found it too prickly. Maybe what I find to be too prickly or scritchy is just comfortable scrub to most others. Since these two explanations are not mutually exclusive, it is entirely possible that my Shavemac was a bit more scritchy than most, but I am just very sensitive to that aspect of a brush's performance.

Nice thoughts. I'm kind of a novice when it comes to brushes. Can you tell me what the difference is between prickly and scritchy? I have a couple of brushes that I feel more than others and I'm not sure if it's scritch or prickle.....whatever it is, I don't like it all that much. Definitely prefer soft and smooth when it comes to my brushes.

 

[Barbarian80]

I could be wrong, but to me, that prickly feeling is what is known as "scritch". The shavemac 2 band knots have essentially none of that- i own 2 of them. I think there's a difference between scrub and scritch. The 2 band is also far far stiffer than Stirling's finest and so that may be why you feel more scrub with the shavemac. I own a 24 mm Stirling finest- while the hair is good quality the knot doesn't have nearly enough density to be adequate for a shave brush- IMO. I think it's a good knot for head shavers and if that doesn't apply to you hand it over to the War Dept.

Striling Finest badger are nice brushes, but a waste of good badger hair. Shame they aren't packed more densely. A 24 mm knot looks much larger than it is when its bloomed out. Rod may think its a $100 brush and he might be correct if he had twice the amount of hair packed into the knot.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I can add that I also bought a 2-band (not D01) silvertip brush from Shavemac last month and it is very firm and, yes, definitely scritchy - but not in a bad way. It is the least soft badger brush I own, by far, and the feel is even rather close to that of my Semogue Mistura (50/50 Badger/Boar). I have to say I like very much how this Shavemac feels on my face - it is not a disappointment at all.

Judging by the comments from Rudy and others it appears that at least some of the recent Shavemac 2-band silvertips are quite different from the soft-tipped knots that you are used to in the past. Maybe it’s variability or a change in the supply, but nobody would describe my Shavemac 2-band tips as soft. I have no doubts at all about the accuracy of the other descriptions posted here.

 

[Steve_in_CT]

Nice thoughts. I'm kind of a novice when it comes to brushes. Can you tell me what the difference is between prickly and scritchy? I have a couple of brushes that I feel more than others and I'm not sure if it's scritch or prickle.....whatever it is, I don't like it all that much. Definitely prefer soft and smooth when it comes to my brushes.

Scritchiness and prickliness are not technical terms; they are merely subjective descriptions of how the bristles feel against your skin. To me, prickly is slightly more extreme, or perhaps more a sensation of it poking you as opposed to scraping your skin. Neither are desirable.

Scrub, on the other hand, can be desirable. It is a sensation of a firm but gentle rubbing against your skin. I have an older Semogue Mistura mixed badger/boar brush which is extremely scrubby, but it is not at all prickly or scritchy.

Caution: Others may use these terms differently than I do.

 

[emwolf]

I've only got 2 Shavemac 2 band silvertip brushes. No scritch or or prickle for me. Soft, decent backbone, good flowthrough.

 

[never-stop-learning]

First of all, @macintoshBR and I had a very positive PM conversation this morning. All is well.

As one of the folks who found the Shavemac 2 band silvertip too "scritchy", I would offer two possible explanations that are not mutually exclusive. The first is variation of natural hair in shaving brushes. It has been my experience over the years that the same knot from the same manufacturer is not, in fact, the same knot. In theory the manufacturer inspects all of the hair and strives for consistency, but that has not been my experience with several manufacturers, including Simpsons and The Golden Nib. I know that several forumites who have seen many Shavemac 2 band sivlertip knots and brushes (e.g. @Rudy Vey and @never-stop-learning) vouch for the consistency of these knots, but if 2 or 3 percent are "off" from the standard, it is still quite possible that the few of us who are not happy with the Shavemac 2 band are owners of those brushes.

My second explanation is of the YMMV variety. I traded away my Shavemac 2 band because it was too scritchy for me, and therefore just not enjoyable to use. But then I also sold my Simpsons Trafalgar brush because I found it too prickly. Maybe what I find to be too prickly or scritchy is just comfortable scrub to most others. Since these two explanations are not mutually exclusive, it is entirely possible that my Shavemac was a bit more scritchy than most, but I am just very sensitive to that aspect of a brush's performance.

It could easily be some combination of the two. We all have different skin and different sensitivity to the characteristics of every knot. A small variation in the hair plus a heightened skin sensitivity could easily lead to two people using the same brush and reporting different results.

Nice thoughts. I'm kind of a novice when it comes to brushes. Can you tell me what the difference is between prickly and scritchy? I have a couple of brushes that I feel more than others and I'm not sure if it's scritch or prickle.....whatever it is, I don't like it all that much. Definitely prefer soft and smooth when it comes to my brushes.

To me, "Prickly" and "Scritchy" are the same thing and definitely not desirable. Interesting aside: The brush I have with the most obnoxious prickly and scritchy characteristics is a synthetic:

The knot is called a "Blood" knot for a reason. Feels like a pumice stone with rabies if I try to face lather with it.

I can add that I also bought a 2-band (not D01) silvertip brush from Shavemac last month and it is very firm and, yes, definitely scritchy - but not in a bad way. It is the least soft badger brush I own, by far, and the feel is even rather close to that of my Semogue Mistura (50/50 Badger/Boar). I have to say I like very much how this Shavemac feels on my face - it is not a disappointment at all.

Judging by the comments from Rudy and others it appears that at least some of the recent Shavemac 2-band silvertips are quite different from the soft-tipped knots that you are used to in the past. Maybe it’s variability or a change in the supply, but nobody would describe my Shavemac 2-band tips as soft. I have no doubts at all about the accuracy of the other descriptions posted here.

Could be a slight variation in hair coupled with more sensitive skin?

Scritchiness and prickliness are not technical terms; they are merely subjective descriptions of how the bristles feel against your skin. To me, prickly is slightly more extreme, or perhaps more a sensation of it poking you as opposed to scraping your skin. Neither are desirable.

Scrub, on the other hand, can be desirable. It is a sensation of a firm but gentle rubbing against your skin. I have an older Semogue Mistura mixed badger/boar brush which is extremely scrubby, but it is not at all prickly or scritchy.

Caution: Others may use these terms differently than I do.

We are using subjective terms, but there is no scientific test (that I know of, at least) that measures prickly or scritchy.

Agreed that scrub is desirable but, in my opinion, even scrub can be overdone.

Based on your and @Chan Eil Whiskers glowing comments, the Semogue Mistura is definitely on my list of brushes to buy and try.

I've only got 2 Shavemac 2 band silvertip brushes. No scritch or or prickle for me. Soft, decent backbone, good flowthrough.

That has also been my experience to date with the 2-band Silvertip.

As with all things, though, just my opinion and YMMV.

 

[Steve_in_CT]

Based on your and @Chan Eil Whiskers glowing comments, the Semogue Mistura is definitely on my list of brushes to buy and try.

My Mistura is a bit different than those currently offered. It is the 2013 Limited Edition with a 22 x 50 mm knot. It also bolsters my contention above about the inconsistency of knots from highly respected manufacturers. When I received my brush in early 2014, it was a shedder. The vendor was very responsive and contacted Semogue for a replacement brush - the one I own now. The new brush has never shed a hair, but the feel of the knot is quite different from the original. It has bloomed very little over those seven years, is extremely dense and has remained a very firm, but not prickly or scritchy, knot. Here are two pictures: one from someone else's post about their 2013 Mistura, and one a current photo of my Mistura.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

To me, it comes down to whether I like the brush and the knot. Others have covered the territory quite well.

That's why I have a cete.​

Some days I want a bit less backbone. Softness is valued. Some scrub is sacrificed.

Other days a brush with a strong presence, tremendous backbone, and delicious scrub is more to my liking.

The good thing is I have a selection of knots to suit my preferences for the day. I'm talking here of the two band badgers, ignoring the three bands. I have an excellent synthetic, a great horse, a couple of outstanding mixed boar and badger brushes, as well as a few three bands, etc.

I'm no badger or two band expert, but some three bands have more backbone than some two bands. I don't see as much consistency as I'd expect to see in anything concerning knots.

I have very good brushes which cost about what Stirling badgers cost. (Well, exactly what they cost.) I've paid a good bit more for brushes I don't like at all.

That said, Shavemac two band knots, D01 and non-D01, have generally been very pleasing to me as have Rudy Vey Manchurians, Zenith Manchurians, and my one Simpson CH3 Manchurian. That doesn't mean I find all the Shavemac two bands devoid of scritch.

If they're carefully chosen and broken in, there can be a whole lot of delicious scrub in a singular of boars.​

In my view, there's pokiness, bad scritch, good scritch, scrub, and delicious scrub. In that order from bad to the right. However, there are also degrees of each, including pokiness + the terms don't seem to have universally agreed upon meanings.

Some of my two bands (and Manchurians) have very obviously "broken in" or changed a lot over time. Whether all of them do I'm not sure. (Some of mine were previously owned which confounds me; one previously owned has changed considerably since it came to me.)

I'm not being remotely critical of the two band silvertips from Shavemac (I have two and once had another) or any of my other Shavemac knots, but they are not my softest knots. I'm not saying that detracts from them in any way.

Currently I have two Shavemac two band silvertip brushes. One is not very old (a year or so maybe). The other is I believe several years old, but had little use before it came my way. I'd say they are significantly different. Not vastly different. Neither is any sense less than a very very good knot.

My Simpson Manchurian at current retail is about 14 times the cost of a new Stirling Finest. Yes, fourteen times!

The Manchurian is better. In fact it's one of my very favorite brushes. Is it fourteen times the brush the Stirling is? No, of course not, but I use it a lot more than fourteen times as often as I do any Stirling. (So, maybe it is that much better to me.)

For the record, I've had several Stirling finest brushes and liked them all.​

​

My Stirlings have varied a good bit. Not in a bad way. One that I initially didn't like became a favorite of my Stirlings.

I should mention that I have a free service which I offer to B&B member who don't like their Shavemac brush(es). Just send it them to me for my free break in service. It might take a good many years. Don't worry, I'll do it right.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[gdawg55]

Scritchiness and prickliness are not technical terms; they are merely subjective descriptions of how the bristles feel against your skin. To me, prickly is slightly more extreme, or perhaps more a sensation of it poking you as opposed to scraping your skin. Neither are desirable.

Scrub, on the other hand, can be desirable. It is a sensation of a firm but gentle rubbing against your skin. I have an older Semogue Mistura mixed badger/boar brush which is extremely scrubby, but it is not at all prickly or scritchy.

Caution: Others may use these terms differently than I do.

Thank you for your term descriptions. Makes sense.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

My Mistura is a bit different than those currently offered. It is the 2013 Limited Edition with a 22 x 50 mm knot. It also bolsters my contention above about the inconsistency of knots from highly respected manufacturers. When I received my brush in early 2014, it was a shedder. The vendor was very responsive and contacted Semogue for a replacement brush - the one I own now. The new brush has never shed a hair, but the feel of the knot is quite different from the original. It has bloomed very little over those seven years, is extremely dense and has remained a very firm, but not prickly or scritchy, knot. Here are two pictures: one from someone else's post about their 2013 Mistura, and one a current photo of my Mistura.

View attachment 1329381

View attachment 1329382

I believe Semogue knots are hand tied in-house so there is bound to be some variety. Having seen videos of knot tying, the strings which bind the knots are pulled and knotted by hand, so there must be some considerable variation in the string tension and therefore in the characteristics of the knot, including the amount of bloom. I dislike bloom intensely and consider your brush to be far superior to the other example.