Shapton glass or Naniwa stone

[Ciko84]

Hi,
I would like to change my glass stone 4000 and get a naniwa professional 3000-5000k and keep using Shapton glass. 8000 Hr
accoriding your opinion is it good do this ? Is 8000 better or equal than naniwa 12000 superstones ?
for finishing I can use a nakayama asagi kan , I would like to have a really nice bevel
thank you

 

[Steve56]

You don’t need to. The Shapton Glass series is designed to go in 3x increments. So 4k to 8k is fine. The Glass HR 4k is better for light bevel work because of its speed IMO. The Naniwa Professional (Chosera) are also known for cracking.

My current synthetic progression is a Shapton Glass HR 2k, a Shapton Glass HC 6k, then jnat finisher. I also use the HR 4k for light bevel work.

If you want a finer finished bevel than the Glass HR 8k before the jnat finisher (which you probably don’t need), try a shapton Glass HC 8k (the best 8k IMO), the Naniwa Snow White (also bad about cracking), or a piece of fine mejiro or koma before your tomo nagura (The cheapest option).

 

[Ciko84]

Thank Steve ,
Instead to lap all the glass stone is good get atoma 400?

 

[Steve56]

Yes that will work as well the Atoma 600. I have a piece of King 1000 that a friend cut for me, I use it to smooth the surface after the 400 but you could also use your tomo. I have a 600 that‘s mellow enough to lap fine jnat finishers with.

Diamond plates go through a life cycle. When you get them, they need to be smoothed with a piece of tool steel, a cleaver, etc to remove high spots and smooth sharp diamonds. Near the end if their life they may not be aggressive enough to lap a dished stone, just depending, but they become great finishing and slurry generating plates.

 

[Ciko84]

Ok so I break in the atoma 400 with a knife several time and then I use to lap Shapton stones jnats
With jnats after atoma I clean with my little nagura
Correct ?

 

[Steve56]

Yes, smooth everything with the nagura after a 400, especially if it’s new. You can try honing with and without smoothing, it won’t hurt anything.

 

[Ciko84]

Great info Steve !
Anyway at the moment because I have ordered yesterday the atoma can I also clean the stones with wet sand papers
I bought 400-800-1000
Can I use or better wait The atoma 400 ?
Sorry but I m afraid to do damage

 

[kohalajohn]

You don’t need to. The Shapton Glass series is designed to go in 3x increments. So 4k to 8k is fine. The Glass HR 4k is better for light bevel work because of its speed IMO. The Naniwa Professional (Chosera) are also known for cracking.

My current synthetic progression is a Shapton Glass HR 2k, a Shapton Glass HC 6k, then jnat finisher. I also use the HR 4k for light bevel work.

If you want a finer finished bevel than the Glass HR 8k before the jnat finisher (which you probably don’t need), try a shapton Glass HC 8k (the best 8k IMO), the Naniwa Snow White (also bad about cracking), or a piece of fine mejiro or koma before your tomo nagura (The cheapest option).

Steve, what about shapton glass HR 2, 6, 10 as the precursor to finish on a Naniwa 12k?

On the one hand, shapton is graded on ANSI, which I hear is coarser than than the JIS measure that Naniwa uses, so the shapton 10k is maybe more like a Naniwa 9k or 8k, so maybe a bit of a jump to Naniwa 12k.

On the other hand, the HR series is a fast cutter, so maybe the HR 10k is just fine as a precursor to Nainiwa 12k.

Your thoughts?

 

[Steve56]

2x steps for typical hones are well, typical. You should be able to do the 2k HR, the 6k HC, then the N12k. Try that first and then add something between the 6k and 12k if you think you need it. Give me a day and I’ll tell you for sure though I’m fairly certain 2-6-12 will work fine.

 

[Gamma]

I would like to change my glass stone 4000 and get a naniwa professional 3000-5000k

Really no point to that it's a lateral move for the 3k and the 5k isn't the best thing since sliced bread.
Unless your 4k Glass Stone has issues, I do not see any improvement with either of your options.

.....and keep using Shapton glass. 8000 Hr

the 8k HR/HC stones are fine to follow any of the above-mentioned stones.

Is 8000 better or equal than naniwa 12000 superstones

"Better" is a subjective term, without clarification the question is baseless. Better in what way for what reason?
Is the 8k Shapton finer than the 12k SS - no, it is not.

I would like to have a really nice bevel

None of the stones above are 'bevel-setters' . But if you mean you want the bevel to have a high polish, it might be important to know that reflectivity, in and of itself, is not indicative of edge performance.

Shapton's grading is not ANSI. The Glass Stones have particle size listed in microns and their 'K' value is closer to JIS than anything else. Technically, JIS ends at 8k though, so there's that. The values of "K" are just relative data points, not an absolutes. In my own hands-on side-by-side, the 12k Nani can, marginally, bump the Shap GS 10k edge a minor bit further along. I am not convinced that the 12k SS edge is 'better' in a shave sense though.

GS 2k, 6k, 10k is doable. I prefer GS 1k, 4k, 10k.
The 6k is, for me, sorta in the middle of nowhere. Good stone, just not needed really.
The 2k is similar in that regard, I prefer it for cutlery. The Pro 1.5 has proven itself to be a superior bevel setter though so the 1k GS sees more knives than razors these days.

If I was going 'full synth' - I'd pass on the Nani 12k and go for the GS 30k or .44 µm GS7 afterwards.

 

[kohalajohn]

Steve and Gamma,

I was thinking of a shapton for the low and mid, like 2, 4, 8. And then replacing my broken nani12.

But looking at the shapton HR 10k which is 1.5u, I see I could do 2k, 4k, 10k, which is 7u, 4u, 1.5u. Then there's no need for the nani12. I could just run shaptons to 10k then create the finishing effect from whatever finishing stone I want.

I'm not really into the shapton 16k or 30k as I prefer finishing with natural stones or balsa.

Question about 1k vs 2k to start. I was going to get a 1k, but Steve made the interesting point that the HR series is so fast that you can use it in place of the 1k. And when the bevel is set, you are at a nice 7u rather than the 14u of the 1k, and it's a nice short hop to the 4k or 4u plate.

 

[Steve56]

I have both the 1k Glass HR and the 2k Glass HR. I use the 1k for wonky bevels, small chips, etc. The 2k is my normal bevel setter, the 1k is a little overkill in this series for a bevel setter unless maybe you’re making a career out of factory Gold Dollars or refurbing eBay specials.

You’ll find the 4k HR useful for light bevel work on hollows too.

 

[lightfoot]

If I were in the market for synthetics of any grit I now pay a bit more attention to the packaging. Both the Shapton Kuromaku series and Naniwa’s Gouken Kagayaki series (I believe this to be a slight revision on the Sharpening stone/Specialty Stone series) have really nice plastic cases that double as stone holders while honing. This may not seem like a big deal early on but after years of struggling with disorganization the aggravation starts to add up. The older Naniwa stones didn’t have this and I’m still trying to sort out what to do with four or five of them....

 

[Tomo]

Shapton sells these stones as a set with a holder. I find they work well for everything I need before going to any one of my natural finishers.

If I go to a balsa progression, I will put a hard ark or 1um lapping film between the Shapton and the balsa stages.

As @Steve56 said they cut fast. After a few strokes you can see the metal swarf building on the 1k. You want to check your work frequently to avoid over doing it.

I lap the Sharon’s on a 400/1200 Atoma Combo plate. I avoid using the 1200 Atoma on the 1000 Shapton as the grits are too closely matched. This can be bad for the diamond plate.

1000 HR, 3000 HR, 8000 HC

 

[Steve56]

You are a man after my own heart @ Tomo.

 

[kohalajohn]

Shapton sells these stones as a set with a holder. I find they work well for everything I need before going to any one of my natural finishers.

If I go to a balsa progression, I will put a hard ark or 1um lapping film between the Shapton and the balsa stages.

As @Steve56 said they cut fast. After a few strokes you can see the metal swarf building on the 1k. You want to check your work frequently to avoid over doing it.

I lap the Sharon’s on a 400/1200 Atoma Combo plate. I avoid using the 1200 Atoma on the 1000 Shapton as the grits are too closely matched. This can be bad for the diamond plate.

1000 HR, 3000 HR, 8000 HC

View attachment 1215841

Tomo, where do you buy your shaptons?

 

[Tomo]

Tomo, where do you buy your shaptons?

There are a few online shaving shops in Australia that carry them. Mensbiz, Beard & Blade and Oz Barber to name a few. I used to use films which also work great but these stones are much more convenient. Easy to set up, pack up and always have the same consistent cutting power. They are good for kitchen knives aswell so they get plenty of use. I couldn’t find the 2k and 6k locally that @Steve56 recommend so I got these instead. No regrets with this set. You could probably get away with a slightly more minimal two stone set up but these have a good spread and work well for me.

 

[Steve56]

Takeshi at AFrames Tokyo in Honolulu has them.

 

[Tomo]

Might need to grab a few Jnats while your at it to justify the shipping...

 

[kohalajohn]

Takeshi at AFrames Tokyo in Honolulu has them.

You live in Hawaii, Steve?