Seven hones for seven razors

[MajorBurnz]

I recently posted a thread about a 7-day set of Schulze razors that I did a minor restoration on. The razors are 11/6" round-points that were made in Solingen (probably mid-to-late 20th century).

After I cleaned them up a bit, I honed a few of them on my coticules and found them easy to hone, and great shavers, to boot.

Here's a pic of the set:

Still, while I like (love) the edges I can get off my coticules, one of my intentions in getting this set was to finish the razors on different hones, so I could get a fair comparison of my abilities with the different hones I have.

The plan is to set and refine the bevel with my DMT 1200, and 8000, and then use a coticule to refine the edge before finishing off on the finisher of choice. For the Japanese natural hones, I'll switch to a progression of various naguras on the hone immediately after the DMT stage.

I'm now ready to start the great honing experiment. I don't have seven distinct finishers, but I do have hones of different layers and sources. Here's a pic of the hones I'm planning to use:

Left to right: 1) 'Vintage' coticule (unknown layer), Iwasaki's Choice Japanese Natural (Nakayama Asagi), La Grosse Blanche coticule, vintage Thuringian, small Charnley Forest, Oozuku Japanese Natural (Kiita/asagi blend Namito karasu), Tam O'Shanter oilstone (more on this choice later).

Here's the plan:

Monday: Oozuku kiita/asagi blend namito karasu

The Oozuku is pretty hard and a nice finisher. I can't claim to have completely mastered this hone, but I regularly get excellent edges from it. I'm not sure I've made maximum use of its capabilities, though.

Tuesday: 'Vintage' coticule

This coticule is pretty nice. A strong carving sensation while honing (with or without slurry), and it's a very hard hone. Dilution to just water puts a brisk edge on a blade. Very nice to shave with.

Wednesday: Vintage Thuringian

This is one of the 'Celebrated' water hones. It's a nice hone that puts a mirror shine on a blade, but I've never taken to Escher/Thuringian edges. I've had some really nice Thury's, and I've had razors honed on Eschers by very experienced people - and I've never cared for them. This is the final chance for the Thury's in my collection, before I get rid of them.

Thursday: Charnley Forest

This Charnley is a pure finisher, and (in my hands), it's my best finisher. It puts the sharpest edges on my blades - only lapping film/pasted strops come close to the keenness I can get off this hone. That doesn't make it the best edge to shave with, but I've learned how to get the best out of this hone.

Friday: Iwasaki's Choice Nakayama Asagi

This may actually be an even blend of Kiita and Asagi - it's not as blue as my other Asagi hone (and it's not as hard). I've used this only a few times, but I found it easy to use and excellent to shave off.

Saturday: La Grosse Blanche coticule

This is one of my favourite coticule layers. I found this layer easy to pick up on, and I love the edges it produces. They seem to be very sharp, but smooth at the same time.

I only use it as a finisher with a very light slurry, and then with pure water. That's partly because I have faster coticules that are broader; this one is very narrow.

Sunday: Tam O'Shanter oilstone

The ToS is not actually regarded as a finishing hone. Most people put its grit between 6000 and 8000. However, people used to say the same thing about BBW hones too, so I want to give this a good go as a finisher. I've used this as a finisher a few times, and it puts very keen edges on my blades. However, they've not been very comfortable. This could be due to the scratch pattern left by the hone (I can't see much at 10x).

Anyway, I'm not going to insist on using this hone if it doesn't work out. I have a nice BBW waiting in the wings if this one fails me.

-------------------


The plan is to finish each razor thrice (finish, shave, then re-finish, and repeat) to see if the edge improves. After that I should have a good idea of the capabilities of the hone.

I'm not planning on limiting the number of strokes or anything. I'll just hone until I think the edge is ready, then use it for a shave, and then repeat that twice. Since the steel on the razors are going to be equivalent, it just comes down to the hone characteristics, and my skill and mood when I'm honing them.

Further updates as I proceed through this experiment.

 

[dakotaev]

Great job, I think this experiment will give the community a lot of great information. I look forward to seeing the results.

 

[Kentos]

Ditto can't wait! Great idea!

Maybe you could rent this out to people, maybe a set of GDs instead, so guys can settle on a finishing stone.

 

[hartsore]

I very much look forward to your results - my own approach always veers toward the intuitive and impulsive - it will be terrific to have something from you that tends a bit more to the objective...

 

[Wid]

This is a fantastic thread. Can't wait to hear about some of the results.

 

[Noswad]

Great idea. Looking forward to the results

 

[Joe Edson]

Yohann - what do you use on your Charnley? I've only ever tried this thick "honing" oil with mine and never really cared for the edges. I need to get some sort of thin oil to try out.

When I go from slurry to water on mine though, the edge becomes far to brisk for my face.

 

[MajorBurnz]

Joe -

If you're referring to the Norton honing oil; I also find that to be too thick. I use camellia oil. Nice and thin and presumably not bad for the hone. I never use any slurry on the Charnleys I have (I have a larger one too).

One tip: Charnleys seem to benefit from being lapped at the highest possible grit. I use 600 and 1500 grit paper, and then spend some time on a C12K with a slurry. That leaves a really smooth surface on the hone. I think that the characteristics of the honing surface are more important with the Charnleys and Arkies than with other hones.

 

[Joe Edson]

Joe -

If you're referring to the Norton honing oil; I also find that to be too thick. I use camellia oil. Nice and thin and presumably not bad for the hone. I never use any slurry on the Charnleys I have (I have a larger one too).

One tip: Charnleys seem to benefit from being lapped at the highest possible grit. I use 600 and 1500 grit paper, and then spend some time on a C12K with a slurry. That leaves a really smooth surface on the hone. I think that the characteristics of the honing surface are more important with the Charnleys and Arkies than with other hones.

Thanks Yohann- I always figured the oil I was using was too thick. I'll have to get some camellia oil and give it a go. I think mine is lapped to 2K (did it a long time ago), but will lap it with a coticule before giving it another go.

 

[Antique Hoosier]

Great thread!

 

[mdunn]

Really cool idea. Ill be watching with interest

 

[MajorBurnz]

Monday, Take 1 - Oozuku kiita/asagi blend namito karasu

The razor was previously unhoned. The set was rust damaged, but had no sign of use prior to me using a few of them. 'Monday' was not one I had honed previously, so I set the bevel with the DMT 1200. This took longer than expected because there was a pit just near the edge. Anyway, after setting the bevel and doing two dozen passes on the DMT 8000, I started on the Oozuku.

I hone my razors with the spine taped, as can be seen. One layer of electrical tape.

I built a thick slurry using the Botan nagura, and did about 100 circular strokes on each side (groups of 20), followed by a few regular back-and-forth strokes. The razor popped arm-hairs at this point. The hone and razor were thoroughly rinsed at this point.

I followed a similar procedure with the mejiro nagura, and then with a kiita tomonagura - slurry, circular strokes and then back-and-forth strokes. All work was done on a slurry - no plain water. Under 10x magnification the edge was uniform and smooth (and hazy, as expected). It passed my version of the HHT enough for me to say that this was worth shaving with.

Total honing time (after bevel setting) was about 10 min.

The razor was cleaned off thoroughly again, and then dried. This was followed by stropping on my TM latigo strop - canvas, then leather and then finished off with 20 strokes on my HA strop.

The shave is the only real test of these edges, of course. I did my usual prep: hot shower, followed by building a lather on my face (using Arko this time) and going on with the shave. 3-passes with minor touch-ups (nominally WTG, XTG and ATG).

The shave was close and pretty comfortable. It wasn't as smooth as I'd expect from a coticule edge, for example. I think this edge may get smoother with a few more passes on a thick kiita slurry. That will be done before the next use of this razor.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 9/10 (Any further touch-ups will require the build up and break-down of the final slurry, so -1)
b) Comfort of shave - 7/10 (I assume that the edge can always be improved upon, so 10/10 is not a possibility. This one can improve).
c) Closeness - 9/10 (This was sharp, and the shave was very close. No complaints here).

 

[MissJames]

This is so informative! Thanx for all the details and pics.

 

[MajorBurnz]

Well, I was hoping to get each razor honed the day before it was to be used, but that's not going to be possible (what with a full-time job and a 13 month-old baby). I wasn't able to get 'Tuesday' honed yesterday, so I had to use another razor. So this will take longer than I thought.

 

[mdunn]

Well, I was hoping to get each razor honed the day before it was to be used, but that's not going to be possible (what with a full-time job and a 13 month-old baby). I wasn't able to get 'Tuesday' honed yesterday, so I had to use another razor. So this will take longer than I thought.

I was excited at the prospect of you using monday on monday, tuesday on tuesday etc...

surely a honing experiment for the entertainment of strangers on a shaving forum is more important than some baby!

 

[MajorBurnz]

I was excited at the prospect of you using monday on monday, tuesday on tuesday etc...

surely a honing experiment for the entertainment of strangers on a shaving forum is more important than some baby!

Ha! I told my wife we should have got a dog instead, but would she listen to me?

To continue.......

Wednesday, take 1: Vintage Thuringian

The razor had already been honed on a coticule to near shave-readiness.

I built a slurry on the thuringian and did about 50 strokes, diluted a couple of times and repeated the procedure. I then did 50 strokes on plain water. At this point the edge was shave-sharp but, because I'd never liked the edges from this hone before, I decided to do about 75 very, very, light strokes on plain water before finishing off with stropping on linen and leather (on my TM latigo).

Shaved with it this morning. Usual prep: hot shower, followed by face lathering MWF with the Semogue 2010 boar (lovely little brush!).

The shave was excellent! Better than almost any shave I've had with a Thuringian edge before (and that includes some 'professionally honed' blades). It was smooth, and very close. Three passes later, my skin felt like I hadn't shaved, and the AS treatment with Stefan Island Lime was mild (no real stinging).

A note about the hone: It is pretty small (about 5"), and so is very quick for its size. It was not a problem to hone on it at all. My suggestion to any newbie straight razor shaver who wants a hone for touch-ups is to get a small vintage thuringian. They're still pretty cheap (about $50-75) and they're really easy to use. There are a lot of people who state that the thuringians are among the best natural finishing hones, and I'd agree. You can get similar edges off other hones (coticules, etc.) but the Thuringian 'just works' - a few light strokes on the hone will reclaim an edge with ease.

I was considering getting rid of my thuringians before this experiment. Now I know I'll retain at least one of them.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 9.5/10 (How much simpler can it get?)
b) Comfort of shave - 8.5/10 (I assume that the edge can always be improved upon, so 10/10 is not a possibility. This edge was excellent, but perhaps it will get better with some more work).
c) Closeness - 9/10 (Shave was excellent).

-------------------

As an aside: I'll be surprised if any of the hones besides the ToS produces a sub-standard edge, since I keep working at the edge until I'm pretty sure it will shave properly. Also, these razors are excellent blades. Very easy to hone and really comfortable to shave with. They really are singing blades too.

I've now finished these blades on three different hones, the Oozuku, a coticule (prior to this experiment) and the thuringian. They've all produced really sharp edges with little effort. The Oozuku edge was a little less comfortable than I prefer, but that's because it is a hard hone to really master. Some more work on it will probably lead to a comfortable edge.

 

[chuckr9]

Great thread - can't wait for more info. Thank you!!!

 

[pelicano]

Monday, Take 1 - Oozuku kiita/asagi blend

I hone my razors with the spine taped, as can be seen. One layer of electrical tape.

I built a thick slurry using the Botan nagura, and did about 100 circular strokes on each side (groups of 20), followed by a few regular back-and-forth strokes. The razor popped arm-hairs at this point. The hone and razor were thoroughly rinsed at this point.

I followed a similar procedure with the mejiro nagura, and then with a kiita tomonagura - slurry, circular strokes and then back-and-forth strokes. All work was done on a slurry - no plain water. Under 10x magnification the edge was uniform and smooth (and hazy, as expected). It passed my version of the HHT enough for me to say that this was worth shaving with.

Total honing time (after bevel setting) was about 10 min.


The shave was close and pretty comfortable. It wasn't as smooth as I'd expect from a coticule edge, for example. I think this edge may get smoother with a few more passes on a thick kiita slurry. That will be done before the next use of this razor.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 9/10 (Any further touch-ups will require the build up and break-down of the final slurry, so -1)
b) Comfort of shave - 7/10 (I assume that the edge can always be improved upon, so 10/10 is not a possibility. This one can improve).
c) Closeness - 9/10 (This was sharp, and the shave was very close. No complaints here).

Hi Yohan,

I think you just didn't give the stone enough time to work its magic. I have a Shoubodani, and before that I had a Nakayama Kiita, and while it takes me 15 to 20 minutes to hone a razor on a coti, it takes me at least twice as much to hone on a Jnat.
I do a Botan, Tenjou, Mejiro, Koma, Tomonagura progresion which can take up to 45 minutes. The result is the sharpest, smoothest edge of all my stones, and you are quite familiar with my collection.

If I were you I would do at least a couple of dilutions on the Botan, and even three or four on the Tenjou and Tomonagura until you have a very light slurry (no water).
Ten minutes doesn't seem enough for these finicky fellows.
I would also skip the linen strop, but I do like overkill, so I strop the blade to death; 60 latigo, 60 cowhide, 60 kangaroo, 60 cordovan.

Anyway, this is why I take out the Shoubi on special occasions only. It is a lot of work, though it's worth it in the end. It's my favorite finish in regards to smoothness of shave.

Glad to see you found another Charnley.

Best,

 

[MajorBurnz]

Hey Jorge,

You're probably right. I just spent too little time on it, and need to really work at it before I get the best edge off the Oozuku. Time is tight these days, so that's my excuse for the half-baked job.

The edge was actualy pretty good. Still, it could certainly be better. I'll give this razor more time on the Oozuku over the next week before the next shave with it on Monday.

Actually, that Charnley is one I've had for a while. It's pretty small, which is why I was in the market for another. The larger Charnley is the one that was dropped.

 

[superbleu]

Great thread Yohann. Very interested o see how this turns out. I have thought about trying something like this with one of my 7 day sets, but I' don't have patience to do such an experiment correctly.