Seven hones for seven razors

[pelicano]

Hey Jorge,

You're probably right. I just spent too little time on it, and need to really work at it before I get the best edge off the Oozuku. Time is tight these days, so that's my excuse for the half-baked job.

The edge was actualy pretty good. Still, it could certainly be better. I'll give this razor more time on the Oozuku over the next week before the next shave with it on Monday.

Actually, that Charnley is one I've had for a while. It's pretty small, which is why I was in the market for another.

I wouldn't say half baked, just that these stones are like honing on a poodle. A little more time wouldn't hurt.

The larger Charnley is the one that was dropped.

Ugh...My project was delayed, so I can still take the Charley out of storage. Let's PM about this.

 

[Brent]

Awesome thread. Thanks!

 

[Wid]

Staying glued to this one.

 

[reedjos]

This is awesome!

 

[MajorBurnz]

Thursday, take 1: small Charnley Forest hone

The Charnley (to me) is a pure polishing hone - I doubt it removes much metal the way I use it, so I only use it as a final step.

The Thursday razor was honed to near shave-readiness on a coticule, and then dried, stropped and made ready for the Charnley.

After my correspondence with Joe (above) about the honing oils to use, I decided to try the Norton Honing Oil again (from TSS). I put a medium-sized drop on the hone and spread it around with a fingertip. I then did 100 X-strokes (very light) on it, and then wiped the blade, and stropped it again.

The blade was much sharper than before the session on the Charnley - that's for certain. That's not surprising, as I didn't really try to maximize the edge on the coticule first.

This morning, I stropped it again on the 'roo strop and got ready to shave. Prep was a hot shower and then TOBS Avocado bowl lathered with a Rooney 2XL.

Two passes later, I could have stopped shaving; it was already so close (apart from a few of the usual problem spots). The shave was really smooth and comfortable. This was something I was paying attention to as I've sometimes got really sharp edges from the Charnley that were not all that comfortable to shave with. I did continue with my usual 3-pass shave, and I was really happy with it.

I'll make no secret of the fact that I really like honing on coticules and I love the edges from the coticules I have. Still, in my book, the Charnley is a really useful hone to have around when you want a little bit of extra keenness. While Charnley Forest hones themselves are pretty expensive, translucent Arkansas hones are apparently the same material. Those are cheaper, and should work the same way.

As I pointed out to Joe, it is my belief that Charnley Forest hones benefit from having the honing surface polished to high grit. I generally use my C12K as a final 'lapping' stone for the Charnley. It takes a while to do, but once it's done you'll probably never have to do it again.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 8/10 (This is a pure finisher and is very hard - so you really need a light touch)
b) Comfort of shave - 9/10 (This was really comfortable).
c) Closeness - 9/10 (Maybe this could be better, but it would be hard to match).

 

[mainaman]

Just a quick correction, this oozuko is not Kiita Asagi, it is Namito Karasu . And for better results dilute the slurry and finish on water only, the edge should be mirrored when you are done, haze means it is not very fine.

 

[MajorBurnz]

Thanks for the clarification, Stefan. I'll be doing that in the future with this hone.

I was following JimR's videos when honing. I generally get excellent results using that technique with my other Japanese naturals. Since you've had more experience with this hone than anyone, I'll follow your instructions and see what happens.

 

[honed]

Very interesting thread!
Will be followed closely!

 

[MajorBurnz]

Didn't have the time to hone last night again.

So, Tuesday and Friday will be a week late.

I'll get them done on the weekend, so there shouldn't be any more delays.

 

[Tralfaz]

This is fascinating stuff!

 

[MajorBurnz]

Sorry about the late update. Saturday and Sunday razors were used on schedule, but I had time to put together a report.

Saturday, take 1: La Grosse Blanche coticule

The razor had already been honed by me at some point (almost certainly on a coticule, though I can't remember for sure). In order to make sure that the edge I would get would be due to the LGB, I built a light slurry on the LGB and did 50 X-strokes, and then diluted to pure water through three dilutions. Finally, I finished off on pure water with 100 very light strokes.

Using this hone was a real pleasure. Unlike some other coticules, this one doesn't have a feeling of grittiness when honing. It's like honing on butter. The hone is narrow (<1" wide), and may be a problem for some people, but I find that I really like it.

By all my pre-shave tests, the edge was super-sharp. However, the only test that matters is the shave test, and so after my usual hot shower I built a lather with my Rooney Finest and some Proraso. The Finest is developing into a really great brush - it started off a little prickly.

The shave was amazing, to be honest. Two passes (WTG and XTG) were all that were needed. My face was mostly smooth 12 h later; and that's saying something (as my beard grows back really quickly). Most importantly, the shave was really comfortable. On the WTG pass it felt like I wasn't doing anything, but the hairs were getting cut off with no effort, and the XTG was more comfortable than with most of the other edges I used this week too.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 9.5/10 (My favourite so far)
b) Comfort of shave - 9/10 (This was really comfortable).
c) Closeness - 9/10 (It amazed me).

----------------------

I fully expected this hone to score the highest on my tests. I've used it before, and loved it from the first time I used it. It suited my tastes so closely, that I sold a bunch of my coticule collection, as I guessed that they weren't going to get used much. I only use it as a finisher, so I keep a few other coticules around for bevel correction and pre-finishing. The coticule layer on this hone isn't very thick, so I don't want to use it up too quickly.

There are some people (even very experienced honers) who say that a coticule is not a finishing hone. I'm sure that they're speaking from experience, and that their techniques didn't match the coticules they tried or that their edge preferences differed from what they were able to produce using a coticule - this is a very personal experience, after all. However, I've had razors honed by some of those people, and while they were good, they were not keen/smooth enough for my personal tastes ----- but I can get to a 'perfect' edge (for my own tastes) using a coticule. Again, this is not a critique of their edges - I'm just making the point that the only person who can match my edge requirements is me. My edges will not work equally well for anyone else.

I use coticules more than any other hone, and I can get excellent edges from any coticule. I find that it's easier to get a really nice edge using a slower hone at the finish - like this LGB, or a La Verte. I can get there with other veins, but the characteristics of the LGB ad LV suit my tastes best.

The combination of this (subjective) preference, coupled with my experience with coticules in general, led to this scoring so high on my tests. People with similar experience on other hones will probably be able to match or surpass these edges using their hone of preference. This is not a claim that the 'LGB coticule is the best hone there is, and nothing else comes close' - that's patently untrue.

As can be seen from the previous posts in this series, the difference between the edges I've been getting have been minimal and easily attributable to my relative amount of experience with those hones.

 

[Wid]

Nice write up, keep up the great work.

 

[Kentos]

Awesome info! I was wondering if later you could somehow assign dollar costs to each various honing progression? Maybe $ for the cheapest methods to $$$$$ for the most expensive. Reason being is that while I know your Jnats are likely gonna cost more than, say, a coti bout, newer honers wouldn't know, and when they decide they want a Jnat, sticker shock ensues, as well as depression, and an urge to raid the college fund to finance said Jnats

 

[Joe Edson]

Yohann - I agree completely with you on coticules. If they are used right and you maximize the edge on them there is no need for another finisher. I probably shave with 90% coticule edges this days. Sure there is some slight variations to the ones I own (mainly in running a dilucot on them), but all of mine provide excellent finishes when properly used.

I get the impression that those honers who think of a coticule as not a finisher either didn't spend the time to get to know them and how to properly dilucot, or they are coming off a 8K SS or norton to a coticule with water only. I think in this later case you are really not getting the benefit of a true coticule edge. Maybe it is all in my head.

 

[MajorBurnz]

Sunday, take 1: Tam O'Shanter hone (oilstone)

The Sunday razor had some pitting at the edge and had not been honed before, so the pitting was removed and the bevel was set using a DMT 1500. This was further refined using a DMT 8000. After that, a Les Latneuses coticule was used with a heavy slurry to refine the bevel and grind off the DMT scratches. This done, the honing progressed on the Les Latneuses through a dilucot - stopping before a final edge was attained, on purpose. I wanted to see what the ToS could do.

Once I was done with the Les Latneuses, the razor would cut arm hairs, but wouldn't pass the HHT (as I run it) at all.

I washed the ToS off with soap and water and did about 100 X-strokes on just water. At this point, I got a nice passing grade on the HHT. However, I've found that the edges off oilstones used with just water are harsh, so I then did about 75 very, very light X-Strokes on the hone with Norton honing oil. This gave an amazing HHT score.

Again, the shave is where the real test is. After my usual hot shower, I built a lather using a Wee Scot and a Kells 'Energy' shaving stick - face lathering of course. The Wee Scot is pretty cool, BTW - my first time using it.

The shave was three passes WTG, XTG and ATG, and the razor performed really well. It was comfortable and sharp, but not 'as' comfortable and not 'as' sharp as a really well-honed razor would be. It was sort of on par with my edge off the Oozuku last Monday.

I was pleasantly surprised, to tell the truth. I wasn't really expecting much from the ToS. The HHT score belied the final shave, as the edge scored higher than it should have for the shave I received. It may be possible to refine the edge some more on this hone, in which case I'd say that the ToS is a very creditable. It is equally possible that the ToS is just a pre-finisher ----- a nice hone that gives an edge that is shaveable with, but not really shave-ready. We'll have to wait and see.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 8/10 (Hone with water, hone with oil - pretty easy. Feedback was good.)
b) Comfort of shave - 7.5/10 (This was comfortable - no pulling or nicks, but it could be better).
c) Closeness - 8/10 (I think this could be sharper too).

 

[Blix]

Saying a coti can't be used as a finisher is crazy-talk for sure! I have a LGB as well, it's just awesome.

 

[MajorBurnz]

Monday, take 2 (sort of): Oozuku namito karasu

This was a step backwards, but I wasn't aware of that until I did the shave test.

I took Stefan's (mainaman) advice and touched up this razor using a kiita slurry diluted slowly to water. Very light strokes (but perhaps too many). This process did polish the edge a lot - gave it a mirror finish. It was very sharp.

The shave today was using the Wee Scot to build a nice lather with Tabac. The WTG pass was excellent and very comfortable, but when I started the XTG pass it was a wee bit uncomfortable, so the shave was abandoned, and I finished off with a Fasan slant.

After the shave and after stropping the blade, I looked at the edge under the loupe. The edge from the point to about 2/3 down the blade was fine, but there was waving and beading in the 1/3 towards the heel of the blade. Now, after the first honing I examined the edge under a loupe before declaring it done and it was perfect at that point. However, after this second honing I did not look at it. I even recall what happened (now that I think about it): I was honing at my kitchen sink and I looked out the window at the garden this one time and the blade slipped off the hone. It must have rounded the edge at the corner of the hone.

I guess this is a lesson to me not to get distracted while honing. Stupid rookie mistake!

Needless to say, the HHT was pretty good along the whole edge. This is a good illustration that even crap edges can pass the HHT.

Anyway, this shave doesn't count, of course. I'll reset the bevel on this one and do it over.

No grades for the razor today, of course. In fact, there's only one grade to be given out today:

Yohann's honing skills: 0/10

 

[MajorBurnz]

Tuesday, take 1: 'vintage' coticule

This is a nice-sized vintage-mined coticule of indeterminate layer. It is pretty hard, but also pretty gritty. It is fast on slurry - with the slurry darkening in a few strokes. I've not used it much, as I only got it a short while ago. So I'm not as experienced on this one as with the LGB.

Once the bevel was set on the Tuesday razor, I built a milky slurry on the coticule and used half-strokes (30 at a time) until all the DMT scratches were gone and the edge would cut arm hair. From that point on, I used X-strokes and went through 6 dilutions to pure water. On pure water I did about 100 strokes. At this point the razor gave a glowing HHT. Yes, this time I did observe the edge under 10 X magnification and it looked great. It was stropped 60 X on a progression of linen, TM latigo and roo.

For the shave I used MWF, face lathered with the Wee Scot.

The 3-pass shave was nice, but not as good as with the LGB. It was sharp, but not as comfortable as the LGB edge. This was most obvious in the ATG pass. Still, it was pretty good. Some more refinement of the edge may be necessary.

My grades for:

a) Ease of honing - 8/10 (These faster hones are a little harder to modulate properly - when compared to slower coticule layers)
b) Comfort of shave - 7.5/10 (Good - but there's certainly room for improvement here).
c) Closeness - 8.5/10 (This was sharp, and the shave was very close. No complaints here).

 

[MajorBurnz]

Wednesday, take 2: small Thuringian

The edge on this one was already pretty good, so I decided to try something different today. Conventional wisdom says that you should finish on pure water on Thuringians. However, a remember a post by danjared, in which he said that the edge was nicer (if less sharp), if you finished on a light slurry.

So, I built a very light slurry and did 30 X-strokes (very lightly).

The result was pretty much what Jared claimed: the shave was smoother and more comfortable, though the edge didn't feel quite as sharp. I can't quite point out exactly what was different, when compared to a week ago, but I did seem to enjoy this shave more than I did last week's.

It's nice to know that the quality of the edge can be changed subtly by varying the honing procedure a bit. This is an obvious observation, but it does deserve to be pointed out. There's no 'one' right way to use a natural hone. Figuring out what works for you is more important than using the 'approved' method.

The grades today were only marginally better than last week, so I won't update them. The overall experience was way more to my taste.

 

[pelicano]

Wednesday, take 2: small Thuringian

The edge on this one was already pretty good, so I decided to try something different today. Conventional wisdom says that you should finish on pure water on Thuringians. However, a remember a post by danjared, in which he said that the edge was nicer (if less sharp), if you finished on a light slurry.

So, I built a very light slurry and did 30 X-strokes (very lightly).

The result was pretty much what Jared claimed: the shave was smoother and more comfortable, though the edge didn't feel quite as sharp. I can't quite point out exactly what was different, when compared to a week ago, but I did seem to enjoy this shave more than I did last week's.

It's nice to know that the quality of the edge can be changed subtly by varying the honing procedure a bit. This is an obvious observation, but it does deserve to be pointed out. There's no 'one' right way to use a natural hone. Figuring out what works for you is more important than using the 'approved' method.

The grades today were only marginally better than last week, so I won't update them. The overall experience was way more to my taste.

I've used light slurries on the Escher, but always diluting them to water. I'll try this method next.

Thanks,