Saponificio Varesino Artisanal 2.0 a quick review

[Phoenixkh]

OK.... I did the Ship-Shape thing with all my natural hair brushes. Easy peasy. I could have used a gallon but I did 2 gallons and you remembered correctly... 3 tablespoons per gallon. I used a sous vide tank with graduations I already had on hand.

I used my SV Turtle Shell and I'm happy to say, on its 4th outing, along with the Ship-Shape cleaning, any signs of scritch, as slight as they were, are gone. It feels just like my Cocobolo at this point... and neither of them are quite to the used Oak Bog level but are already approaching it.... 4 uses each. I'm guessing, if Doug's guess was right, it has around 16 or 18 uses.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

OK.... I did the Ship-Shape thing with all my natural hair brushes. Easy peasy. I could have used a gallon but I did 2 gallons and you remembered correctly... 3 tablespoons per gallon. I used a sous vide tank with graduations I already had on hand.

I used my SV Turtle Shell and I'm happy to say, on its 4th outing, along with the Ship-Shape cleaning, any signs of scritch, as slight as they were, are gone. It feels just like my Cocobolo at this point... and neither of them are quite to the used Oak Bog level but are already approaching it.... 4 uses each. I'm guessing, if Doug's guess was right, it has around 16 or 18 uses.

Good deal, Kim. I'm very glad the various SV brushes are coming along so nicely.

My Cocobolo wasn't washed prior to my first use of it and had a funky scent (not horrible).

Last night I washed it.

To wash it I did a three step process. Realize it was probably a four step process as I'd already once loaded and lathered for its initial shave.

Last night I first soaked it in Dawn and water. Swirling it about, etc. This was maybe five minutes or less, followed by a complete rinse.

Next came a loading and palm/hand lathering, followed by another thorough rinse.






Finally, I put a smallish amount of Ship-Shape, perhaps an eighth of a tablespoon, but I didn't measure, in the green rubber mug with water for the final soak. Again, about five minutes or less. Again, a complete rinse.

The Cocobolo is pretty dry already this morning having been extra towel dried last night. I'll probably use it again today which will give me a good chance to find out if all the funky smell was removed.

Probably I could have skipped the rest of the process and gone directly to Ship-Shape but it didn't occur to me. As usual I was fumbling about.

As far as I can tell, these Saponificio Varesino brushes have pretty consistent knots other than in their need for break in time. My Faux Tortoise required about twelve or so shaves to display its full magic. My Faux Horn had a bit of scritch, very little, which seems to have gone after about twenty shaves, but I didn't notice when it left.

All three have been excellent from the very beginning. All three seem to just flat out hit the sweet spot even though they have qualities different from what I used to think ideal. They've changed my view of what a great badger brush should be like.

The brush photo is in one of our two newly remodeled bathrooms. I had nothing to do with the project. The bathroom is beautiful but consideration to the lighting needs of a gentleman shaving at the sink was ignored so the room is flat out not a shaving den.

As least the project is complete. Our friend did a great job of the tile, etc. We got a huge amount for our money. As he did the work in his spare time I had a claw foot bathtub in my hallway for three months, and got very tired of it being in my way, but it was worth the hassle.

We have two more bathrooms to redo. I'll be careful to make sure the lighting works for me. Lesson learned.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

I'm glad you got me going on SV brushes. I had no plans to buy a badger brush at all, but getting two Mistura brushes and absolutely loving them sort of pointed me in the direction... I followed part of your journey and a few others and got the Zenith Manchurian, as you know.

Then the SV brushes. I found the crowns off-putting at first, but that changed for me. I sort of like them. It might be confirmation bias combined with familiarity.... I got used to them. In any event, I'm actually enjoying the short break-in process. They aren't like a boar that takes quite a few wet/dry cycles or uses to hit their stride. As you've noted, the SV brushes are actually pretty good from their first use, with a tiny bit of stritch on one out of three for me. They do improve on with every shave. I haven't hit the 20 use mark on any of them except the Bog Oak I got from Doug. That one is most excellent and I'm confident the others will get to that point soon.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I'm glad you got me going on SV brushes. I had no plans to buy a badger brush at all, but getting two Mistura brushes and absolutely loving them sort of pointed me in the direction... I followed part of your journey and a few others and got the Zenith Manchurian, as you know.

Then the SV brushes. I found the crowns off-putting at first, but that changed for me. I sort of like them. It might be confirmation bias combined with familiarity.... I got used to them. In any event, I'm actually enjoying the short break-in process. They aren't like a boar that takes quite a few wet/dry cycles or uses to hit their stride. As you've noted, the SV brushes are actually pretty good from their first use, with a tiny bit of stritch on one out of three for me. They do improve on with every shave. I haven't hit the 20 use mark on any of them except the Bog Oak I got from Doug. That one is most excellent and I'm confident the others will get to that point soon.

There's a reason I win this award month after month.


But...

There is pretty much nothing left for me to buy.

Yeah, I could buy more stuff, but why? I don't need the SV brushes in every wood. Perhaps I'll acquire then over time, but even I have limits, and my wife surely does. Why buy other brushes when you have as many of the best as I already have, and like most of them? At least a handful of my soaps are wonderful. Maybe Frank's unscented ETHOS will become available and grab me, but maybe not. I could buy a second Sailor but what for? I have enough blades for a hundred more years at least. Let's not even talk about the straight razor rabbit holes (plural on purpose).

There's really nothing I want.

Don't hear that as me swearing off acquisition disorders, but just as me being so pleased and satisfied with my gear that it would be very hard to tempt me with something new.

I was just thinking about how great my inexpensive Pearl Flexi is, and it's not even my top adjustable. It may be one of the biggest bargains in wet shaving. Yes, it's a tank, but so what?

When I consider the journey I've been on since joining this insane community...

Could it be both?

...the SV brushes are actually pretty good from their first use, with a tiny bit of stritch on one out of three for me...

Exact same percentage for me, too.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

I haven't been bitten by the RAD bug and I don't think I will be. I am going to get a Wolfman Darwin handle, as I've mentioned before but I'm content with my Claymore Evolutions.

My brush collection is complete unless something special comes up... one of those Semogue group buys as an example. I haven't used the Elite Manchurian I have but the knot looks and feels quite a bit like the SV brushes so I think I'll end up loving it. The handle is shaped quite a bit like your Zenith olive handle Manchurian... the smallish knob on the bottom and the Bloody Basin Jasper is such a beautiful stone. Bob lathe work is something else.... absolutely perfect... no flaws... BBS. <eg>

I did add some Phoenix Scentsless soap the other day but I don't have any other soaps I want to try. I am not a scent person anyway and my skin reacts as well so I won't be searching for the perfect soap/after shave scent.

So.... I've been on B&B since March and have been on a buying spree but it's been a hmmmmmm... I'll put it this way. I think I've been selective and haven't made many mistakes other than a couple of cheap synth brushes whose purchase I regret and the B&M soap that burned my face so bad. I like everything else I've acquired.

I'm not going to join any of the 12 step threads here, at least, not at this point. I think my next step is to try to get into a firm, shave every other day routine. Since I retired, I haven't kept up with my shaving but I have a reason to shave now. I do love the difference between cartridge and traditional wet shaving. If I don't shave at least every other day, it will extend the break-in periods for all my brushes. <eg>

A question: will badger brushes also benefit from a simple wet/dry cycle like boar brushes? I know you aren't expecting the split ends like the boar bristles, but would it speed the break-in period for my badgers? It would be easy to do, obviously... or should I just enjoy the process through every shave? I realize this is subjective. I just want to know if a wet/dry cycle does anything for badger brushes.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I haven't been bitten by the RAD bug and I don't think I will be. I am going to get a Wolfman Darwin handle, as I've mentioned before but I'm content with my Claymore Evolutions.

My brush collection is complete unless something special comes up... one of those Semogue group buys as an example. I haven't used the Elite Manchurian I have but the knot looks and feels quite a bit like the SV brushes so I think I'll end up loving it. The handle is shaped quite a bit like your Zenith olive handle Manchurian... the smallish knob on the bottom and the Bloody Basin Jasper is such a beautiful stone. Bob lathe work is something else.... absolutely perfect... no flaws... BBS. <eg>

I did add some Phoenix Scentsless soap the other day but I don't have any other soaps I want to try. I am not a scent person anyway and my skin reacts as well so I won't be searching for the perfect soap/after shave scent.

So.... I've been on B&B since March and have been on a buying spree but it's been a hmmmmmm... I'll put it this way. I think I've been selective and haven't made many mistakes other than a couple of cheap synth brushes whose purchase I regret and the B&M soap that burned my face so bad. I like everything else I've acquired.

I'm not going to join any of the 12 step threads here, at least, not at this point. I think my next step is to try to get into a firm, shave every other day routine. Since I retired, I haven't kept up with my shaving but I have a reason to shave now. I do love the difference between cartridge and traditional wet shaving. If I don't shave at least every other day, it will extend the break-in periods for all my brushes. <eg>

A question: will badger brushes also benefit from a simple wet/dry cycle like boar brushes? I know you aren't expecting the split ends like the boar bristles, but would it speed the break-in period for my badgers? It would be easy to do, obviously... or should I just enjoy the process through every shave? I realize this is subjective. I just want to know if a wet/dry cycle does anything for badger brushes.

I'm aware Rudy Vey who likely knows a million times more about knots than me says something which I've interpreted to mean badgers don't break in.

In my experience this is definitely, 100%, absolutely sometimes wrong.

There is no question at all that my copper handled Zenith Manchurian brush has changed enormously over the time I've owned it. It was close to being a wire brush when I got it. People warned me to be careful with it. I approached it with trepidation. I am not kidding either. Its backbone was a transplant.

The brush has been used upwards of a hundred times. I'd guess upwards of a hundred and fifty times. Lots of changes. Now, it's certainly soft feeling. It still has a lot of backbone. I think it has as much backbone now as any brush I own. However, it has way less backbone than it used to, and a ton more softness. It began having never heard of the word soft.

That said, it was always a brush I enjoyed using for one reason or another. I liked it from the beginning.

I should also mention that my other Zenith Manchurian is very different. It was a gift from a member friend who got it from another member friend. I have no idea how many times it was used before I got it. In some ways I'd compare the knot's current state of being with the SV knot. That Zenith Manchurian knot, too, has changed over time as I've used it.

Whether badgers break in via dry to wet to dry cycles is unknown to me. It could also be from let's say mechanical abrasion or the action of the soap on the hairs. I simply have no idea.

I don't always much like an unbroken in boar. Sometimes I like breaking boars in through only the process of using them, but sometimes with a particular boar I wouldn't dream of going through that torment. I'm fine with doing wet to dry to wet cycles offline.

With badgers I enjoy the break in process so that's what I do.

I have had at least one brush get worse as it broke in. Either that, or I thought I liked it, and found out I hated it as I used it. To be fair, it's a brush sold as highly gelled. I would not knowingly buy a highly gelled brush again. Feels yucky to me.

I am not saying all badgers actually break in, but I know some do. I'm also far more familiar with decent to good and excellent two bands and Manchurians and with boars than I am with three band silvertips.

The SV brushes have been said to be gelled by some users and I understand why that might seem to be the case, but SV is on record saying the knots are not gelled. I see no reason to disbelieve them.

To me, the SV knots don't feel or perform in a manner anything like the gelled brush I hate. The similarities are visual and only visual.

Of course I'm only fumbling about and actually know nothing other than what my experience and reading have told me.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

The ends on the SV bristles aren't "hooked"... or "wavy". I've never owned a brush that is sold as "gelled" but from what I've read, that is one of the distinguishing features. You'd know better than I would.

My Zenith Manchurian started out softer than yours, evidently. But it's been used a lot more than my SV brushes and has improved in its softness. It's soft to the touch when it's dry. The newer SV brushes are not soft on the tips when dry but the Bog Oak, having been used 20 times or so, has quite soft tips. I don't want to disagree with Rudy either, but based on my limited experience, all the natural bristle brushes soften up a bit over time... with the exception of that porcupine Maggard 70/30. <eg>

Even the Misturas have softened up a bit, though they were excellent right out of the box as you "promised". Great brushes...

 

[linty1]

Hey Kim and Jim, this was a fun journey to follow along with, I hope you guys are enjoying the brushes (and multiples!). Also you guys have tuned me into ship shape, I shall do a little more googling but it sounds like a good product/more cost effective than Zingari brush cleaner.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Hey Kim and Jim, this was a fun journey to follow along with, I hope you guys are enjoying the brushes (and multiples!). Also you guys have tuned me into ship shape, I shall do a little more googling but it sounds like a good product/more cost effective than Zingari brush cleaner.

I've certainly enjoyed it.

Certainly it could be argued I don't need any more brushes in general and should get rid of a good many I either don't like at all, or don't like much, or don't use.

It could also be that I need more SV brushes because I don't have the Faux Ivory handle and because I only have one SV handle in any of the woods.

The counters to that last statement include two facts. I have limited financial means. I have a great wife, but one who keeps score.

How many Saponificio Verisino brushes is the ideal for you?

I would argue that the correct answer is either one, three, or all of them. I'd probably buy the Faux Ivory right now if I found one at a good price except for the fact that were I to buy the ivory, I'd have to buy another wood because everyone knows any collection should contain an odd number of items.

I already have the wood, cocobolo, I most like. Also I have no idea which wood I'd purchase next were I going to do so. It puts me in a real bind. However, being at three is a good place to be stuck.





Trust me on this.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[linty1]

I've certainly enjoyed it.

Certainly it could be argued I don't need any more brushes in general and should get rid of a good many I either don't like at all, or don't like much, or don't use.

It could also be that I need more SV brushes because I don't have the Faux Ivory handle and because I only have one SV handle in any of the woods.

The counters to that last statement include two facts. I have limited financial means. I have a great wife, but one who keeps score.

How many Saponificio Verisino brushes is the ideal for you?

I would argue that the correct answer is either one, three, or all of them. I'd probably buy the Faux Ivory right now if I found one at a good price except for the fact that were I to buy the ivory, I'd have to buy another wood because everyone knows any collection should contain an odd number of items.

I already have the wood, cocobolo, I most like. Also I have no idea which wood I'd purchase next were I going to do so. It puts me in a real bind. However, being at three is a good place to be stuck.


View attachment 1493387


Trust me on this.

Happy shaves,

Jim

We are similar in that something drew us to the cocobolo, no regrets there.

I view this as a hobby, so I don't mind sinking some occasional money in it, there are many, many, much more financially damaging hobbies out there that I am quick to point to, but you are right, I can't speak for anyone else, but as someone who needs to pick their spots to spend, I am happy.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I'm in a quandary..... I have 4 SV brushes now... and what Jim said is correct... odd numbers are the rule... I got that from my wife, a retired interior designer.

Now... I do have a new Elite Razor Manchurian badger..... so that's 5.. an odd number... but I also have a Zenith Manchurian with the 506 copper handle... so I'm back up to 6.....

Whatever should I do? (joking around, I hope you know).

I think I'll just count the two Cocobolo handle SV's as one... twins.. just one pregnancy, if you will.... I have them in both silver and gold crowns... so fraternal....

I could always sell one.... but which one? My least favorite handle is the Bog Oak, truth be told. It's almost too dark to see the grain, but since I bought it used, it is broken-in and has the very best feel of any of my SV brushes. My hope is that the other three end up as good as it. I think they will.

It is interesting to me... all three new SV brushes, when dry, feel exactly the same as the new Elite Razor Manchurian at this point.... the tips just aren't soft. But both the Zenith Manchurian and the broken-in SV has the very soft tips when dry. But when you soak them a bit and use them, all of them feel very similar on my face. The differences are there, but they are minor.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I'm in a quandary..... I have 4 SV brushes now... and what Jim said is correct... odd numbers are the rule... I got that from my wife, a retired interior designer.

I think I got it from you, but already knew it on some level.

Now... I do have a new Elite Razor Manchurian badger..... so that's 5.. an odd number... but I also have a Zenith Manchurian with the 506 copper handle... so I'm back up to 6.....

Whatever should I do? (joking around, I hope you know).

I think I'll just count the two Cocobolo handle SV's as one... twins.. just one pregnancy, if you will.... I have them in both silver and gold crowns... so fraternal....

See how easy that was?

I could always sell one.... but which one? My least favorite handle is the Bog Oak, truth be told. It's almost too dark to see the grain, but since I bought it used, it is broken-in and has the very best feel of any of my SV brushes. My hope is that the other three end up as good as it. I think they will.

So, at least for now, you need the bog oak as a benchmark, right?

It is interesting to me... all three new SV brushes, when dry, feel exactly the same as the new Elite Razor Manchurian at this point.... the tips just aren't soft. But both the Zenith Manchurian and the broken-in SV has the very soft tips when dry. But when you soak them a bit and use them, all of them feel very similar on my face. The differences are there, but they are minor.

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. I think you understand it, but I'm not sure I do.

Within the larger body of brushes called two band, or finest, or Manchurian, there are certainly differences. Most of the differences are subtle. Some are based simply upon the loft to knot size ratio meaning how deeply the knot was set. Occasionally there are outliers.

I think the SV brushes are outliers, but only to a small degree. It's that small degree which makes them so great.

I have other brushes I like a lot, but I don't think I have any other badgers I like as much as I like the SV brushes. They hit the sweet spot.

Yes, much of it is subjective, but not all I think.

All that said, nothing wrong with buying one and only one Stirling finest brush. They are damn good.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

I haven't actually used the Elite Manchurian yet.... I was just commenting on the feel when dry. The two brushes I have that are broken in, the Zenith and the Bog Oak SV, both have soft tips when they are dry. The other 4, the three newer SVs and the Elite Razor are not soft at the tips. Add to that, when you look down at them on the vanity top, the broken-in brushes look more dense.... the other 4 look identical as well.... with space between the bristles. These are visual and feel observations when dry.

In use, the three SV brushes feel more similar to the broken-in Bog Oak than different, with the Turtle Shell having just a touch of scritch, but as I've mentioned, enough to notice but not enough to be annoying. And that was on the first use. It's already softened up on its 4th use to match the Cocobolo. I'm sorry.... I misspoke... I haven't used the latest Cocobolo yet... just cleaned and dried it but running it over my face when dry.... it feels the same as the other Cocobolo.

I agree.... the Bog Oak will stay around until the other three are fully broken in... and might just stay around, period. I'm not in a rush to eliminate one for the prime number fixation. I haven't finalized my rotation plan at the moment. I'm leaning on using the three SV brushes in rotation until they all match the Bog Oak... then adding the Elite Razor in after that, mainly because I think I'd enjoy noticing any subtle differences between them. Having that experience sort of etched in my mind will make it easier to determine how different the Elite ends up being. It will be an isolated experience instead of one lumped in with the SVs, if that makes sense.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I haven't actually used the Elite Manchurian yet.... I was just commenting on the feel when dry. The two brushes I have that are broken in, the Zenith and the Bog Oak SV, both have soft tips when they are dry. The other 4, the three newer SVs and the Elite Razor are not soft at the tips. Add to that, when you look down at them on the vanity top, the broken-in brushes look more dense.... the other 4 look identical as well.... with space between the bristles. These are visual and feel observations when dry.

In use, the three SV brushes feel more similar to the broken-in Bog Oak than different, with the Turtle Shell having just a touch of scritch, but as I've mentioned, enough to notice but not enough to be annoying. And that was on the first use. It's already softened up on its 4th use to match the Cocobolo. I'm sorry.... I misspoke... I haven't used the latest Cocobolo yet... just cleaned and dried it but running it over my face when dry.... it feels the same as the other Cocobolo.

I agree.... the Bog Oak will stay around until the other three are fully broken in... and might just stay around, period. I'm not in a rush to eliminate one for the prime number fixation. I haven't finalized my rotation plan at the moment. I'm leaning on using the three SV brushes in rotation until they all match the Bog Oak... then adding the Elite Razor in after that, mainly because I think I'd enjoy noticing any subtle differences between them. Having that experience sort of etched in my mind will make it easier to determine how different the Elite ends up being. It will be an isolated experience instead of one lumped in with the SVs, if that makes sense.

Ah, I get it now.

As you know, I have plenty of other good brushes including Zenith and Simpson and Rudy Vey Manchurians, but mostly what I'm using is the Saponificio Varesino beauties.





Pardon me not taking a new photograph of them but they're at home and I'm at the office.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

From that photograph, the tops of your triplets look just like my broken-in Bog Oak SV. I'm sure my other three will look similar after a few more uses.

 

[Phoenixkh]

On a happy note: I just did the first shave with the new Cocobolo brush.... just amazing for the initial use. I couldn't be more pleased.

 

[funkateer76]

View attachment 1466102

View attachment 1466101

The new brush has a faux horn handle. The various vendor photos don't capture its look well at all nor do my photos.

I almost skipped this one thinking it was a good price but a handle I didn't fancy. Fortunately, I was wrong. The handle - in real life, in my hand - is very attractive. Not just acceptable. The faux horn's really good looking and unlike any other handle I've owned or seen. I'm pleased.

In the photos above the knot is brand new. It's not been washed or exposed to water, but I think you can see, and I can see for sure in person, the two knots are significantly dissimilar in appearance.

View attachment 1466111

View attachment 1466101

Now that I've washed the knot with Dawn and palm lathered a couple of times it is perhaps more apparent the knots are different from one another. The faux horn is more of a bulb. It is more apparent than these two dry and new never used photos indicate. It's not shocking or extreme. Kinda reminds me of Simpson's knot variations.

It is not a criticism. It is interesting.

Since I've not used the faux horn knot I have no idea how it will compare in use. I suspect I'm going to like the new brush. It will be used soon enough, probably on Saturday.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Can you please explain more?
I’m about to pull the trigger
On the
Faux horn ,but, the only drawback is..it's too plain&dull,I mean there’s no (black root like lining) on the handle which makes it Immensely Exquisite,if you know what I mean .
Your reply is very appreciated

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Can you please explain more?
I’m about to pull the trigger
On the
Faux horn ,but, the only drawback is..it's too plain&dull,I mean there’s no (black root like lining) on the handle which makes it Immensely Exquisite,if you know what I mean .
Your reply is very appreciated

I'd be glad to, but I'm not quite sure what you're asking me.

In my opinion as an owner of five Saponificio Varesino brushes all the knots are great. The handles are all great, too, in my opinion. Obviously, in the SV 2.0 line, there are a great many handle options. I'd buy any of them with confidence assuming I liked how the handle looked.

I like the look of my faux horn (resin) SV handle but I like the appearance of my Cocobolo (wood) and my faux tortoise (resin) better.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[funkateer76]

I'd be glad to, but I'm not quite sure what you're asking me.

In my opinion as an owner of five Saponificio Varesino brushes all the knots are great. The handles are all great, too, in my opinion. Obviously, in the SV 2.0 line, there are a great many handle options. I'd buy any of them with confidence assuming I liked how the handle looked.

I like the look of my faux horn (resin) SV handle but I like the appearance of my Cocobolo (wood) and my faux tortoise (resin) better.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Very informative : )
Thank you sir

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Today i get it!!!

That is one good looking brush! Thanks for showing it off.

Happy shaves,

Jim