Riding shoulder onto strop/hone

[rhgg2]

Hi all, I have often seen the admonition not to let the shoulder ride onto the strop/hone. With my razor the shoulder looks like this:

There are two distinct parts. Behind the blue arrow is much thicker and definitely would interfere with laying flat if allowed on the strop or hone. However the stabiliser between the red and blue arrows is ground thicker, sure, but within the plane made by the spine and the bevel. Is there any reason to keep that part off the strop or hone? Everything seems to lay flat even allowing it on, and without regrinding the heel it would seem hard to hit all of the heel without doing so.

 

[Ravenonrock]

That is not something I would do. I would want the spine and edge to be in contact on the stone or strop in front of the stabilizer. Stabilizer does not ride on the stone or strop for me.

 

[CpnStumpy]

If the stabilizer is riding on the hone, I interpret that as a problem with the stabilizer being too thick, and grind it down (taping the rest of the blade and working the stabilizer flatter)

If a stabilizer interferes with the hone, it will raise the edge off the hone and you'll be honing the toe a great deal more than the midblade or heel.

You may just not sharpen past the stabilizer I guess, leaving the heel dull, but the heel is a very useful part of the blade, it tends to be behind the stabilizer and you should be able to sharpen all the way to it just as you can all the way to the toe.

Someone else please correct me if reworking thick stabilizers is bad advice. I've only had to do it a couple times, but it really doesn't seem right to stop honing at the stabilizer

 

[rbscebu]

@rhgg2, the part at the blue arrow is referred to as the shoulder. The part at the red arrow is the stabiliser. They are two separate parts of a blade, although some combine them when they refer to the shoulder.

It is best if the shoulder never rides up onto a honing/stropping surface.

Whether the stabiliser should never ride up onto a honing/stropping surface depends on how the stabiliser was ground. Some stabilisers are ground such that they are always below the edge to spine plane line. Others protrude beyond the line of that plane and should be kept off the surface.

As some may not be able to determine if their stabilisers fall within or go beyond the edge to spine plane line, it is often best to advise all to try and keep the stabilisers off the honing/stropping surface.

 

[JPO]

Is there any reason to keep that part off the strop or hone? Everything seems to lay flat even allowing it on, and without regrinding the heel it would seem hard to hit all of the heel without doing so.

If the stabilizer heel start to become part of the bevel plane it will get more difficult to avoid developing a heel hook. However, if you are careful you might avoid too much problems.
Steel removal is proportional to the effective pressure (force/area). When the bevel transitions into the heel stabilizer you will be removing material at a slower rate on the heel then on the thinner part. Hence the heel hook formation. If you are able to localize your pressure on the heel to hone it separately, and blend it into the rest of the bevel, you might be able to maintain it as it is.

You can keep it as it is, or you can correct the lower part of the stabilizer with a dremel, or even do a full heel correction if you don't want to deal with it each time you hone the razor.

I use the heel when i shave, so i don't like messing too much with it.

You can improve the transition by taking off some steel locally as shown here:
You can then use a heel forward x stroke to hone the whole length of the bevel, keeping the top part of the stabilizer off the stone.

 

[rhgg2]

Thanks! At present the stabiliser is well within the spine edge plane. So I might just keep it as is and keep an eye out for any hint of squaring off of the heel corner. At present I am bad enough at this that any kind of stroke at all is a victory but I'll have a go at practising the heel leading stroke as well.

 

[rhgg2]

You can then use a heel forward x stroke

I had a go at this (first rehone after coming back from holiday). The heel leading stroke is actually heaps easier, much easier to keep everything on the hone, feel where the pressure is along the blade edge and keep it even. Plus there is absolutely no doubt as to when the stabiliser drifts too far in, as the whole blade just comes to a complete and sudden standstill...

 

[rajagra2]

I must admit I've recently experimented stropping with the shoulder on the strop. And I mean well into the strop. Especially on a narrow one where an X-stroke combined with the trickiness of starting with the heel in contact means that part gets practically zero attention.

But only using a razor with no protusions, and on cheap strops.

Can't say I've noticed any benefit or harm.
I better stop now before it becomes a bad habit.

 

[rbscebu]

I must admit I've recently experimented stropping with the shoulder on the strop. And I mean well into the strop. Especially on a narrow one where an X-stroke combined with the trickiness of starting with the heel in contact means that part gets practically zero attention.

But only using a razor with no protusions, and on cheap strops.

Can't say I've noticed any benefit or harm.
I better stop now before it becomes a bad habit.

I try to not let the shoulder/stabiliser ride up onto the stropping surface but don't lose any sleep over it if it occasionally happens. If it became a habit, I would work on not allowing it to happen.

 

[Steve56]

If the stabilizer is up on the strop, it will raise the rear portion of the edge off the strop, just like running the stabilizer up on a hone - unless the stabilizer has been honed into part of the edge. Maybe to a lesser extent since strops have some flex to them.

Here’s a section of a used Double Duck linen that I bought used - can you guess what caused the dark line on the right edge? I am of the opinion that this is not the way that you want to strop, or hone.

 

[rajagra2]

If the stabilizer is up on the strop, it will raise the rear portion of the edge off the strop,

Or worse, it could raise the rear part of the spine off of the strop!

 

[Tomo]

On of the most useful things I’ve learned to do in straight razor honing is a heel correction. This has always made my razors easier to hone and improved the edge. Weak heels suddenly disappear. If in doubt, correct the heal. This is an essential part of straight razor maintenance. When the edge wears down the heel must be corrected. Ridding the stabiliser or attempting to grind it into the plane of the bevel angle is not a good idea. It makes things unnecessary difficult and leads to unnecessary geometry issues.

HEEL CORRECTION - REPROFILING

HEEL CORRECTION – REPROFILING Made easy. The issue of heel reprofiling has come up in various threads and I have described the process. Here is a photo tutorial showing how I reprofile a heel. As a razor is honed the blade width narrows and the heel corner, (where the straight edge curves...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[rajagra2]

On of the most useful things I’ve learned to do in straight razor honing is a heel correction.
...

HEEL CORRECTION - REPROFILING

HEEL CORRECTION – REPROFILING Made easy. The issue of heel reprofiling has come up in various threads and I have described the process. Here is a photo tutorial showing how I reprofile a heel. As a razor is honed the blade width narrows and the heel corner, (where the straight edge curves...

www.badgerandblade.com

Harumph! I checked my 9 straight razors and all but 2 could use that heel correction. Even these 2,

one is borderline and the other could use a tidied up heel. They are mostly new or NOS and only lightly honed by me once or twice, so it isn't my bad.

Ironically, the junker I showed in another thread is in less need of heel correction than 7 of my good razors!

 

[rbscebu]

Harumph! I checked my 9 straight razors and all but 2 could use that heel correction. Even these 2,View attachment 1694161one is borderline and the other could use a tidied up heel. They are mostly new or NOS and only lightly honed by me once or twice, so it isn't my bad.

Ironically, the junker I showed in another thread is in less need of heel correction than 7 of my good razors!

I am of the opinion that neither of those two SRs shown in your photo require any heel correction, unless you are very bad at controlling the blade when honing/stropping.

 

[rajagra2]

I am of the opinion that neither of those two SRs shown in your photo require any heel correction, unless you are very bad at controlling the blade when honing/stropping.

Yes, the top one is fine for now and the other simply looks roughly reshaped at the heel to me. But all my others will need me to think what to do.
This one for example already has a bit of a point and unattractive wear on one side at the heel.

 

[CpnStumpy]

I have to say, I've managed to effectively hone a variety of razors that presented irritation with the stabilizer, I love a good heel so I'm heavily reticent to shorten it like that. The only times I've opted for this was when a hook was developing. Personally I try to roll my heel in the honing strokes slightly to extend the edge around it rather than letting it abruptly end, I really use my heel a lot when shaving.

Twice I ground the stabilizer into the bevel plane to resolve this, it was annoying but the results were it no longer interfered with honing.

Reprofiling as shown is definitely the easy solution and simplifies honing, but I don't think folks need to prematurely do it just because the heel is beyond the stabilizer. I wouldn't bother until you have actual difficulty honing a blade.

 

[rajagra2]

I love a good heel so I'm heavily reticent to shorten it like that.

It does feel sacrilegious, but I've learned you sometimes have to break things to fix them. I won't be rushing to do this mod to all my razors, I'll probably buy a cheap razor to try it out on. I'm sure Amazon will have some useless tat available.