Silly question, I know. I was under the impression that "red tea" is another name for Rooibos (a tisane), while black tea is black tea. Lately, I've seen people using "red tea" and "black tea" interchangeably and saying things like "red, aka black tea." Does this have something to do with maybe what something is called in the area where they live, or are they wrong, or am I wrong?
Red and black tea are not the same, right?
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I've only ever heard or seen red tea to mean rooibos.
Maybe the reddish color of the brew has confused them?
Maybe the reddish color of the brew has confused them?
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I've seen it twice just on here. The only thing I could think is that maybe they are referencing the brewed color? But I could see someone new to tea just being so utterly confused by that.
When researching this for the Tea FAQ I found that the usage varies through history, and today it varies by country. Looking it over now, I made a few mistakes while editing it for simplicity.
There's two modern systems, and minor variations on them both. One uses green, yellow, white, oolong, red, pu-erh. In this sytem, red and black are the same thing.
The ancient Chinese system uses red for the modern red/black, but uses black for teas that were prepared for long transport. Today, black is better represented by Pu-erh, which has evolved from those original black teas and for the same purpose. Noone uses the term black for pu-erh, and noone ever did. Proper Pu-erh didn't exist when the old system was in use. You could more properly say that any red tea prepared in a way to last for two years or more is black tea.
The colors are off in the faq. There should be a blue and blue/green. I'll correct it as soon as I can and get rid of the simplifications to make the systems clearer. There's actually two modern systems in use, and minor variations on them, so I'll try to do a decent job of it when time permits. Meanwhile, any insights and clarifications in this thread would be most welcome and helpful.
There's two modern systems, and minor variations on them both. One uses green, yellow, white, oolong, red, pu-erh. In this sytem, red and black are the same thing.
The ancient Chinese system uses red for the modern red/black, but uses black for teas that were prepared for long transport. Today, black is better represented by Pu-erh, which has evolved from those original black teas and for the same purpose. Noone uses the term black for pu-erh, and noone ever did. Proper Pu-erh didn't exist when the old system was in use. You could more properly say that any red tea prepared in a way to last for two years or more is black tea.
The colors are off in the faq. There should be a blue and blue/green. I'll correct it as soon as I can and get rid of the simplifications to make the systems clearer. There's actually two modern systems in use, and minor variations on them, so I'll try to do a decent job of it when time permits. Meanwhile, any insights and clarifications in this thread would be most welcome and helpful.
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Red tea is black tea. In the East, it's known as red tea because black tea refers to post-fermentation teas such as liu an, liu bao, and pu'er (although no one ever really refers to pu'er as black tea). To us, it's known as black tea, but they're the same thing as they are fully oxidized teas. A dian hong may taste vastly different from an assam, but they are in the same family. This is, at least, according to things I've read over the years, so if someone has seen otherwise chime in.
Red tea is a lighter fermentation than black tea. Fex, Liu An and Liu Bao are red teas, IIRC and Darjeeling is black.
Huh. That's really interesting <clicks over to tea FAQ>. Thanks.
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I just got a little more educated today. Thanks, guys! I've never seen it called that before, and now I know why it is.
See how easy this is?
I updated the Tea FAQ a bit to clear up my mistake (oolong was blue-green in the Ming system) and add a bit more confusion about the different classification systems, especially that black stuff. I try to keep it simple, but steer clear of anything factually wrong.
Feel free to update it yourself.
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The Tea FAQ is wrong. Red tea isn't tea at all, it's Rooibos. That's why it's caffeine free. I would consider it an herbal tea, but there are no tea leaves in it. It comes from Africa.
A infusion made from something like rooibos is not technically a tea but rather a tisanne (spelling?). All herbal and flower infusions fall into this category. So, while we may refer to a camomille infusion, a rooibos, a chrysanthemum infusion, etc. as tea, they as technically really tisannes.
I think some of the confusion is a result of the term "red tea" having multiple meanings. I have seen rooibos marketed by some vendors as red tea (as stated above, it is an herbal infusion or "tisane" and is not from the tea plant at all). On the other hand, in China, what is called black tea in the US is referred to as red tea. So in one sense it is correct to say that black and red teas are the same, as long as the red tea being referred to is not rooibos, but an oxidized tea, usually from China.
From what I understand, in the West, the name black tea came from the color of the tea leaves. However, in China, the the name red tea came from the color of the resulting liquid after steeping those leaves. Both are names for the same type of tea, though. In other words, black-colored tea leaves produce a red-colored cup of tea.
From what I understand, in the West, the name black tea came from the color of the tea leaves. However, in China, the the name red tea came from the color of the resulting liquid after steeping those leaves. Both are names for the same type of tea, though. In other words, black-colored tea leaves produce a red-colored cup of tea.
"Red tea" may refer either to Rooibos or to hong cha, the Chinese term for teas like Keemun and Darjeeling, which we call black tea. "Black tea" may refer either to what we call black tea or what the Chinese call hei cha, which includes Pu-erh, Liu Bao, Liu An, but definitely not Keemun or Darjeeling.
Referring to Rooibos as "red tea" isn't 100% wrong, but it's confusing and should probably be avoided. Generally, when you hear "red tea" on a tea message board or list, it's a pu-erh lover talking about hong cha.
Yea, but come on, we're not reading Chinese letters on the forum right?
In all seriousness, I grew up in the US where there is mainly black tea (red to the Chinese) and green tea. Red tea to me always meant the Rooibos. Most of the people that have commented are from the US as well. So, it really all depends on where in the world you are.
Side note: I don't consider "herbal teas" to be tea at all seeing as how they have no tea leaves in them. How they received that designation I do not know. Is anyone else in agreement?
In all seriousness, I grew up in the US where there is mainly black tea (red to the Chinese) and green tea. Red tea to me always meant the Rooibos. Most of the people that have commented are from the US as well. So, it really all depends on where in the world you are.
Side note: I don't consider "herbal teas" to be tea at all seeing as how they have no tea leaves in them. How they received that designation I do not know. Is anyone else in agreement?
In response to the heavy interest in this particular subject, I made the following change to the Tea FAQ to reflect this usage.
Rooibos (red bush, sometimes aka red tea)
It doesn't seem appropriate to mention it in the color section because that opens the door to all kinds of other usage and things that aren't Camellia Sinensis.
Rooibos (red bush, sometimes aka red tea)
It doesn't seem appropriate to mention it in the color section because that opens the door to all kinds of other usage and things that aren't Camellia Sinensis.
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What we would normally categorize as black tea is called by the Chinese hongcha- literally red tea.
I agree with Thanks that the name black tea is reserved for describing post fermented teas, but has been commonly used for all fully oxidized teas.
Rooibos isn't even tea, so I don't think it matters what color you call it.
I agree with Thanks that the name black tea is reserved for describing post fermented teas, but has been commonly used for all fully oxidized teas.
Rooibos isn't even tea, so I don't think it matters what color you call it.
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When Qimen was first exported to the West, the westerners named the tea after the appearance of the dry leaves, which is blackish, and named it Black Tea. In China, due to the difference in oxidizing, rolling and fermentation processes, many 'black tea' produced in the south-eastern regions of China from Fujian to Anhui, and in recent decades, Yunnan, do not appear as blackish - the Chinese preferrred to name the tea according to the colour of the brew, which is reddish - they call it Hong Cha, which means Red Tea.
And I guess that's where the confusion arose.
Hei Cha - which is Black Tea in Chinese, refers to a different class of tea which is a loose term in itself, initially thought to be based on the brew, but experts suggested should be based on one common process which all these Chinese Black Tea go through: pile fermentation, mostly using hydrothermal methods.
The reason for this is simple: Liu Bao is Chinese Black Tea, and so is Kang Zhuan, but in terms of appearance and brew, they are completely different - the former blackish when young, tawny when aged; the latter dark yellow when young, brown when aged. And then there's also the Sheng Liu Bao, sometimes referred to as Farmer's Liu Bao, which is brown in brew, not black. However, they all share the same pile fermentation in different level of done-ness.
Perhaps it might clear up many future confusion if we term them
Chinese Black Tea for Hong Cha (Red Tea)
English/Indian Black Tea
Fermented Tea for Liu Bao and the rest?
ahhh, but I see other complications arising...oh well.
In Europe, I discover that many teashops there refer to Rooibos as Red Tea, maybe that's where the term came from? Then again, in translation, it should be Red Bush Tea...
ps. Liu An & Liu Bao are not Red Tea, they are black - or close to black...
pss. The terms Blue / Blue-Green is most likely a mis-translation on the term 'Qing' by the people who first discovered the plethora of tea in China...better we steer clear of it and stick to Oolong...
psss. Black Tea was produced first for consumption, the long transportation in trade with the borders and beyond came after. The two are not necessarily related...
And I guess that's where the confusion arose.
Hei Cha - which is Black Tea in Chinese, refers to a different class of tea which is a loose term in itself, initially thought to be based on the brew, but experts suggested should be based on one common process which all these Chinese Black Tea go through: pile fermentation, mostly using hydrothermal methods.
The reason for this is simple: Liu Bao is Chinese Black Tea, and so is Kang Zhuan, but in terms of appearance and brew, they are completely different - the former blackish when young, tawny when aged; the latter dark yellow when young, brown when aged. And then there's also the Sheng Liu Bao, sometimes referred to as Farmer's Liu Bao, which is brown in brew, not black. However, they all share the same pile fermentation in different level of done-ness.
Perhaps it might clear up many future confusion if we term them
Chinese Black Tea for Hong Cha (Red Tea)
English/Indian Black Tea
Fermented Tea for Liu Bao and the rest?
ahhh, but I see other complications arising...oh well.
In Europe, I discover that many teashops there refer to Rooibos as Red Tea, maybe that's where the term came from? Then again, in translation, it should be Red Bush Tea...
ps. Liu An & Liu Bao are not Red Tea, they are black - or close to black...
pss. The terms Blue / Blue-Green is most likely a mis-translation on the term 'Qing' by the people who first discovered the plethora of tea in China...better we steer clear of it and stick to Oolong...
psss. Black Tea was produced first for consumption, the long transportation in trade with the borders and beyond came after. The two are not necessarily related...
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