Ready to give up

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I tried to get exaggerated burr on the razor and succeeded, but only on the first side. The burr was clearly there. Not so sure if it was even and equal along the whole edge, but anyway I clearly felt it. I needed some 300 to 400 strokes with considerable pressure (not too hard, though, I believe, I didn't force the razor, just applied some pressure).

The burr on the second side was not so clear, however, even if I did the same amount of strokes for that side. I progressed forward with the razor, but then struggled to get suction/undercut of water on the other side, possibly because of the incomplete burr.

I could try this again with my good razor, but maybe better to invest in Gold Dollars. Would you order them for couple of bucks from Ebay or what would be the best way to get them? I am aware they might need some work, but I've got time to play around with them. It is quite an intriguing thought to order 2 or 3 of them for less than $5 each (free postage) and see what happens. How about this Gold Dollar on Ebay?

Get a good burr on both sides regardless of anything. Otherwise you won't have a reference point for what a good bevel looks and feels like. Sometimes the second side takes a lot more strokes; if it does, you can later add strokes to the first side to achieve numerical balance (or not; see how the edge and the bevel look).

Buying Gold Dollars for this purpose (honing practice) is almost entirely about buying at the cheapest price. There are also pretty good razors on eBay for under $10, sometimes including shipping, so an inexpensive (but perhaps good) eBay razor might be a good choice for honing practice, too.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[GKR1]

I'm referring to the old notion in Straight Razor Place (IIRC) that one is supposed to be able to shave off 8k. And that it should be/could be accomplished first, before attempting to refine the edge further.

The Above is Pure Bull ****.

How do anyone knows what type of facial you have, you shave with what is smooth and comfy nothing less or more. And 8k to me is a cheese grater.

I guess if you want to learn how to hone yes a gold dollar would do, but I rather use a vintage. Vintage will hold the edge much much longer and they have been sorted out most of the time. Gold Dollars are just a bad razor all around! I know people get their kicks on it, but its scrap metal and the ones pushing them are selling them!

Bevel setting is not a rocket since like some people make it to be. Even honing is really simple task. Its pretty simple to accomplish nice shaving edge. Folks make it like they are flying elephants around the room! Getting HHT 4 and 5 is very simple task, take your time and move up progression. Strop well on fabric and leather and life is all good. Shaving your face with consistency and comfort each and every time is much more difficult task then honing a run of the mill razor on a stone.

 

[monco]

The Above is Pure Bull ****.

How do anyone knows what type of facial you have, you shave with what is smooth and comfy nothing less or more. And 8k to me is a cheese grater.

I guess if you want to learn how to hone yes a gold dollar would do, but I rather use a vintage. Vintage will hold the edge much much longer and they have been sorted out most of the time. Gold Dollars are just a bad razor all around! I know people get their kicks on it, but its scrap metal and the ones pushing them are selling them!

Bevel setting is not a rocket since like some people make it to be. Even honing is really simple task. Its pretty simple to accomplish nice shaving edge. Folks make it like they are flying elephants around the room! Getting HHT 4 and 5 is very simple task, take your time and move up progression. Strop well on fabric and leather and life is all good. Shaving your face with consistency and comfort each and every time is much more difficult task then honing a run of the mill razor on a stone.

You may well be right, and most probably are, I don't want to argue. After all, I am here asking for help and practically everybody has better knowledge about these things than I do.

The fact is that I struggle to shave with a straight razor. I also struggle to hone one into shave-ready condition (despite having attempted that during last 15 years on several occasions). I know that with some luck I may be able to hone a razor since I've accomplished that feat once, for a week of solid shaves. There are two separate goals here (learning to shave and learning to hone), and that is one big beginner mistake I must fix.

So, I am currently in a process of sending my razor to a local honing service that I trust to be good (it is just so difficult to put my $150 Friodur 6/8 into an envelope and send it away). And at the same time I will take a step back from straight razor shaving (but not honing), because I simply don't hold a shave-ready straight razor at the moment and I am tired of having a burning, itchy, irritated face. I will continue with a Gillette Fusion 4 for the following couple of weeks or months, until a razor comes sharp off my hones, or the honemeister guy will send me a sharp edge. Or preferably both.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I am only speaking for myself, but I've not found it easy to learn to hone well.

No, I'm not comparing it to learning skills which take years (brain surgery), but it hasn't been like falling off a log easy either.

Long long ago I was a lumberjack. The old man who showed me how to sharpen chain saws to the professional level required said learning was mostly a matter of paying attention to and studying what he demonstrated. He also said very few people ever caught on to what he taught them. Fortunately I was one of them. Anyway, that was with someone physically present to demonstrate the skill, and to observe, critique, and correct the student; something most of us lack as we learn to hone.

A conflicting factor in my opinion is the myriad methods and conflicting points of view. It might be easier to learn to hone if all we had to do was learn one method (our teacher's) using his choice of honing implements.

In a way honing is I think very easy once you know how. It is as Keith @Gamma says just rubbing steel on rocks until the edge is sharp.

BTW, chain saws are more difficult than razors in a way, but who cares if the chain saw's edges are comfortable?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[MO1]

Gold dollars are alot of work, if you dont grind down the stabalisers it will be hard to hone, the spine is also quite thick so the bevel angle will be around 20 degrees, you need to grind down the spine so you get in the 16-17 range.
As for the steel, its properly tempered carbon steel, i just dont get how the steel is "inferior", it takes a shaving edge...

Good practice razors as they are cheap and leave alot of room for mess ups.

Guess it comes down to peoples economy and preferance in what you want to practice on.

 

[Twelvefret]

You may well be right, and most probably are, I don't want to argue. After all, I am here asking for help and practically everybody has better knowledge about these things than I do.

The fact is that I struggle to shave with a straight razor. I also struggle to hone one into shave-ready condition (despite having attempted that during last 15 years on several occasions). I know that with some luck I may be able to hone a razor since I've accomplished that feat once, for a week of solid shaves. There are two separate goals here (learning to shave and learning to hone), and that is one big beginner mistake I must fix.

So, I am currently in a process of sending my razor to a local honing service that I trust to be good (it is just so difficult to put my $150 Friodur 6/8 into an envelope and send it away). And at the same time I will take a step back from straight razor shaving (but not honing), because I simply don't hold a shave-ready straight razor at the moment and I am tired of having a burning, itchy, irritated face. I will continue with a Gillette Fusion 4 for the following couple of weeks or months, until a razor comes sharp off my hones, or the honemeister guy will send me a sharp edge. Or preferably both.

Stay with it. You will get there.

The solution is complex and it a matter of many moving parts which include shaving, learning the edge, getting sharp, and touch/finesse.

First pass is much different than subsequent passes. Very little pressure and close in to the mirror to find each hair. Not the same for me as with safety razors where you just glide over the parts mindlessly.

Many look for the burr which I no longer do after learning it is unnecessary. I do maybe 80 or 100 laps on the 30 Mu film. If it can tree top at that point I move on ending on .5 Mu or moving to a coticule after 3 microns.

"Burning, itchy, and irritated", in my case, was too much pressure, not that the blade was dull. I was scraping rather than cutting. Those last two passes and clean up are feather touches. Get close to the mirror and note how little effort it takes to cut those last few stranglers.

I would advise finding some vintage $10 or less razors. I've never been the least bit interested in Gold Dollar. The old razors were made in a era of use, not where the SR is a novelty.

 

[ajduplessis]

The Above is Pure Bull ****.

How do anyone knows what type of facial you have, you shave with what is smooth and comfy nothing less or more. And 8k to me is a cheese grater.

I guess if you want to learn how to hone yes a gold dollar would do, but I rather use a vintage. Vintage will hold the edge much much longer and they have been sorted out most of the time. Gold Dollars are just a bad razor all around! I know people get their kicks on it, but its scrap metal and the ones pushing them are selling them!

Bevel setting is not a rocket since like some people make it to be. Even honing is really simple task. Its pretty simple to accomplish nice shaving edge. Folks make it like they are flying elephants around the room! Getting HHT 4 and 5 is very simple task, take your time and move up progression. Strop well on fabric and leather and life is all good. Shaving your face with consistency and comfort each and every time is much more difficult task then honing a run of the mill razor on a stone.

I agree that the GD razors are really bad and that vintage razors is the way to go. I do differ in that you can get a comfortable shave of 8K, if your 8K results feel like a cheese grater your honing technique is lacking IMO.

 

[MurderousCrow]

Stay with it. You will get there.
I would advise finding some vintage $10 or less razors. I've never been the least bit interested in Gold Dollar. The old razors were made in a era of use, not where the SR is a novelty.

I agree that the GD razors are really bad and that vintage razors is the way to go.

The finer points (haha) of honing are way beyond me as a near-complete beginner to sharpening razors. However I would agree with these gentlemen. I bought two razors to practice honing on: one a GD 96, the other a vintage Japanese; despite using the same methodology I applied to the vintage razor, I was unable to obtain a good edge on the GD. It feels cheap, where the vintage razor feels great. Outlay was equivalent.

I got the GD to pass tree-topping and HHT tests, but still didn't like how it felt on my scalp. Don't know if this is justified but I wouldn't trust it half the distance I could throw it. Won't be buying any more.

Luke

 

[MO1]

This is a "modified" gold dollar, takes some time and elbow grease to do. At least in my case.
If you mean that gold dollars are bad as in shape, too much metal and bevel angle, then yes I do agree. But all that is fixable, the part when people start to say that the steel is inferior, I just don't buy it. It really is properly tempered carbon steel, scrap or no scrap, this is one of my best razors.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

One of my several mistakes was buying Gold Dollars which had been professionally honed. What a waste of money that was!

I have three GDs. None are useful. None are used for shaving.

I do think they're great for modification (the example above shows what that's about; what a nice looking razor!) and I used to use them for honing practice but I think eBay razors are a better deal all around for many reasons unless modification is your thing.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[GKR1]

I agree that the GD razors are really bad and that vintage razors is the way to go. I do differ in that you can get a comfortable shave of 8K, if your 8K results feel like a cheese grater your honing technique is lacking IMO.

I'm glad that you know how my face feels like during shave on 8K, and my honing is not an issue. 8k does not pop my facial hair it slices it.

The notion that everyone should be able to get comfy smooth shave from 8k is farce!

 

[ajduplessis]

I'm glad that you know how my face feels like during shave on 8K, and my honing is not an issue. 8k does not pop my facial hair it slices it.

The notion that everyone should be able to get comfy smooth shave from 8k is farce!

The notion is that one CAN get a comfortable shave of 8K, not everyone SHOULD...

Try swapping your cheese grater for a proper 8K hone. Nobody is complaining about coticule edges, NO wait that cant be! Those stones are only rated 6-8K...

 

[Twelvefret]

The notion is that one CAN get a comfortable shave of 8K, not everyone SHOULD...

Try swapping your cheese grater for a proper 8K hone. Nobody is complaining about coticule edges, NO wait that cant be! Those stones are only rated 6-8K...

You're not listening. He's trying to tell you his beard requires more than yours, since apparently you can use a 8k edge. Yes, I've read complaints about Coticule edges. I've also read Coticule stones are intermediate stones for some users.

 

[GKR1]

The notion is that one CAN get a comfortable shave of 8K, not everyone SHOULD...

Try swapping your cheese grater for a proper 8K hone. Nobody is complaining about coticule edges, NO wait that cant be! Those stones are only rated 6-8K...

My only 8k is shapton pro, I do not even use it much anymore, I do nagura progression after 3k. And if I do use it I will then go on JNAT to finish.

If you get a smooth comfy shave of 8K, more power to you, I have coarse Mediterranean beard (Brillo Pad), not a poofy/patchy Gringo hair. Not everyone can shave of 8k. I rather go back to cartridges before doing that.

And yes, coticule I have is mid range. haha! Never could get a keen edge for comfy shave, perhaps. my example is not up to task or lack of experience on my part, I know what works for me, and its just silly folks try to make a point that I should be able of 8k. Yes I can but I rather not. I can shave of 5k too.

 

[ajduplessis]

Your poofy gringo ancestors with their 6-8K stones would not agree, or are you the "tuff" Brillo on your family Pad, sorry tree