Preventing rust.

[mycarver]

Just a sample of scales done 7-10 yrs ago. Still look good. Not new. Originals.
No soak em’ in oil for a day, 3 days, a week and they’re good as new.
Umm. Not in my shop.

 

[mycarver]

The problem with Ren Wax is the container, you can’t get to the bottom of the container.

I’m thinking a generic screw driven deodorant tube. Or a nice sealed shaving soap tin.

If that’s really the case why not just scoop it out or warm it and simply pour it into ,,, oh, An Altoid tin? Or soap tin as you say. Full access and swipe away.wide and flat.

Simple solution.

 

[rbscebu]

The problem with Ren Wax is the container, you can’t get to the bottom of the container.

I’m thinking a generic screw driven deodorant tube. Or a nice sealed shaving soap tin.

For my Renaissance wax (65g tin), I bought some 10ml aluminium alloy screw-top tins. Worked out at about 50¢ each including shipping. You can find them on AliExpress, eBay, etc.

One 10ml tin for each of beeswax, petroleum jelly and Renaissance wax.

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A 10ml tin of Renaissance wax is good for about 400 blade applications and can be used down to the last μg.

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To get the last out of the 65g tin, just place it in hot water for a few minutes and the Renaissance wax will be liquid. You can then just pour it into you 10ml tin. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[mycarver]

For my Renaissance wax (65g tin), I bought some 10ml aluminium alloy screw-top tins. Worked out at about 50¢ each including shipping. You can find them on AliExpress, eBay, etc.

View attachment 1659747​

One 10ml tin for each of beeswax, petroleum jelly and Renaissance wax.

View attachment 1659745
​

A 10ml tin of Renaissance wax is good for about 400 blade applications and can be used down to the last μg.

View attachment 1659746
​

To get the last out of the 65g tin, just place it in hot water for a few minutes and the Renaissance wax will be liquid. You can then just pour it into you 10ml tin. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

I’ve been buying this style of tin but with clear tops in lots of 12 for my son. Wherever he ( and his friends now travels he collects samples of beach sand from islands, soil from France, Sweden Ireland etc
I then designed a clear glass top side table ( around 6’ long) where all tins are in view with a range of color and texture of the soils/ sands etc. it’s cool to see and a nice memory for him.

 

[rbscebu]

I’ve been buying this style of tin but with clear tops in lots of 12 for my son. Wherever he ( and his friends now travels he collects samples of beach sand from islands, soil from France, Sweden Ireland etc
I then designed a clear glass top side table ( around 6’ long) where all tins are in view with a range of color and texture of the soils/ sands etc. it’s cool to see and a nice memory for him.View attachment 1659766

You would receive a long jail sentence if you tried to bring soil/sand samples into Australia from another country. Australia takes biosecurity very seriously.

Australian Boarder Patrol will give your shoes a thorough free cleaning if you mention to them that there might be some dirt on your shoes. It's not often that you can get something free from the government .

 

[mycarver]

Yup. Same here. This is going back around 20 years before we knew better. And he has time to travel a bit. Now at 40, house, family, new business,,, he doesn’t travel anymore!

 

[JPO]

If we assume the razor is cleaned after each use, what conditions need to be in place to get corrosion?
As long as the temperature in the storage room is above the dew point, will you be able to get corrosion?

Even at 100% relative humidity, if the ambient temperature is above 20-22 deg C, you should not be able to initiate corrosion.

This is not taking into account soap residue and other contaminants that encapsulate moisture and can be a cause of corrosion, or act as an accelerator.

So am i over cautious when i oil my razors after each use?
If store my razors in a room where the temperature never drops below 20 deg, and the relative humidity newer reach above 90%, my razor should be fine even if they are not threated with anything?

Even my bathroom seem to satisfy this, provided the razors are in a drawer, and not directly exposed to water vapor.

The dew point temperature can be calculated simplified for RH>50% with the following simplified formula;
T.dew = T - (100-RH%)/5 = deg C.

 

[rbscebu]

If we assume the razor is cleaned after each use, what conditions need to be in place to get corrosion?
As long as the temperature in the storage room is above the dew point, will you be able to get corrosion?

Even at 100% relative humidity, if the ambient temperature is above 20-22 deg C, you should not be able to initiate corrosion.

....

I only wish that was the case. You probably have not lived in a tropical environment where the temperature never drops below 25°C.

 

[JPO]

I only wish that was the case. You probably have not lived in a tropical environment where the temperature never drops below 25°C.

I thought the physics was the same regardless of climate.
You would need extreme temperatures followed by rapid cooling when the sun goes down. This would create more of a steam effect.
You are probably correct. It is probably not that simple in an tropical environment.

 

[rbscebu]

I thought the physics was the same regardless of climate.

It is, except that dew point (when liquid water forms on a surface) has very little to do with acceleration of steel corrosion. Water vapour works just as well, if not better, at contributing to the steel corrosion process.

 

[Gamma]

I have used, tested, etc sooooo many products. CLP, Breakfree, Frog Lube, synthetic LMG oil, lithium grease, Ezox, Ballistol, Marvel, STP, ATF, Hoppes, too many to remember/recall. Not to mention household remedies cooked up in the basement. The list is lengthy. I had a bottle of Ballistol back in the 60s... been chasin' rust a long time it seems.

Hats off to the guy with that test, it's certainly a lot of work and I totally get going that distance. But it doesn't really mean much to me at the end of the day. Withstanding extreme testing once does not mean it will withstand extreme testing all the time, it doesn't mean it will withstand every extreme test all the time, or every combo of extreme tests everywhere all the time. Doesn't mean it will survice not so extreme testing either. A lot depends on the thing to rust, what it is made of, how it is finished, temperature, how it is exposed to the atmosphere, etc. What works on one thing might not work on another, and geography and atmospheric factors matter a good bit too.

Back when I had more time for such things, I tested on 2 penny nails. What I came to realize is that real life events don't always parallel controlled test results. Grooves and lands in a barrel are one thing, and nails are not the same thing, and razors are yet another different thing.

Not so long ago I put two razors in a deep flower pot out front, buried about 6 inches down, covered one with mineral oil, the other with Ballistol. The pot was exposed to rain, watering the flowers, run off from the building, etc. The dirt was always moist or soaked.
After a while, many weeks, the mineral oil blade was in better condition, rusted but salvageable. The ballistol blade took a harder hit. Even so - the fact that the blades weren't destroyed was eye opening. USP mineral oil doing better than Ballistol was also eye opening. Advertising hype doesn't always pan out in real life for everyone all the time.

The best rust prevention plan, for me, is maintenance based; clean blade, apply mineral oil, put away in proximity to VCI paper or camphor, etc. This is not a set it and forget it thing - after a while, the blade comes out, gets cleaned, and oil is reapplied. VCI paper gets exchanged regularly too. An airtight container with a volatile corrosion inhibitor inside could be nearly maintenance free but nothing is ever perfect.

I remember unpacking and assembling a 1940s Soviet SKS fully crated and totally embedded in 4" of cosmoline.
There was rust.... not a lot, but there was some. If something can be drowned in cosmo, and still rust, then there is no Toad Grease on this planet that will prevent rust in every single situation forever till the end of time.

My personal approach to avoid issues with corrosion is to rely on simpler products and regular service. That and making sure the thing is perfectly clean before applying the oil. I find that It's easier to clean something when it was lubricated with something that wasn't loaded with a ton of additives.

 

[JPO]

Hats off to the guy with that test, it's certainly a lot of work and I totally get going that distance. But it doesn't really mean much to me at the end of the day. Withstanding extreme testing once does not mean it will withstand extreme testing all the time, it doesn't mean it will withstand every extreme test all the time, or every combo of extreme tests everywhere all the time. Doesn't mean it will survice not so extreme testing either. A lot depends on the thing to rust, what it is made of, how it is finished, temperature, how it is exposed to the atmosphere, etc. What works on one thing might not work on another, and geography and atmospheric factors matter a good bit too.

This type of testing would at least give an indication of how well the different protection work relative to each other. It is not exactly a scientific experiment. However, if i was planning to buy something i would at least consider the best performers before the one that completely failed the test.

I have not done any testing my self. However, all my razors are stored in my bathroom.
I apply mineral oil after each use. They are also resting on VCI paper. Some of the razors have not been used for several years. There is no sign of rust on any of my blades. My razors also comprise of different types of steel.
When the oil seem to dry i clean the razor and reapply oil.
I don't live in a tropical environment. However, this long term type of "test" should provide a good reference point.
One of my oldest razors have been stored this way for more then 12 years.

 

[Wombat ESQ]

If we assume the razor is cleaned after each use, what conditions need to be in place to get corrosion?
As long as the temperature in the storage room is above the dew point, will you be able to get corrosion?

Even at 100% relative humidity, if the ambient temperature is above 20-22 deg C, you should not be able to initiate corrosion.

This is not taking into account soap residue and other contaminants that encapsulate moisture and can be a cause of corrosion, or act as an accelerator.

So am i over cautious when i oil my razors after each use?
If store my razors in a room where the temperature never drops below 20 deg, and the relative humidity newer reach above 90%, my razor should be fine even if they are not threated with anything?

Even my bathroom seem to satisfy this, provided the razors are in a drawer, and not directly exposed to water vapor.


View attachment 1659994

The dew point temperature can be calculated simplified for RH>50% with the following simplified formula;
T.dew = T - (100-RH%)/5 = deg C.

Rust is Ferrous Oxide, steel plus oxygen, water is an accelerant. Relative humidity, yes .... no .... yes .... maybe..... no ...yes ... well

I don't think you can actually take RH of the environment graphs as law in a bathroom or inside a house for that matter.
I heat my house, it's winter now here, my windows are wet, I shower my mirror condenses even in summer to a degree, i have a hot shower in summer, steel in the bathroom is at a lower temp than the water vapour, it will condense some very small amounts out of the air. Even simply cooking is going to make water vapour, i know i look in me peas i cant see, it fogs me glasses up.

 

[Gamma]

This type of testing would at least give an indication of how well the different protection work relative to each other.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Often not, but sometimes yes. Depends on how close someone's situation is to the test conditions.
Two different situations with different variables in play can prove wildly different results.
Products that prove to be sub-par for one person can prove to be exemplary for someone else.

That is why plain mineral oil beat Ballistol in my at-home comparison.
In theory, and by some 'tests', Ballistol is a 'better' product for rust prevention.
In my experience, it just doesn't always work out that way.

What everyone should be using on their razors though, is Rangoon Oil.

JK....

 

[JPO]

That is why plain mineral oil beat Ballistol in my at-home comparison.

To my nose Ballistol smells awful. Even if it was amazing I couldn't use it.
I don't see any visible rust on my blades. However, that does not mean there is no rust.
I am not sure if there is a correlation, but blades that have been laying around unused for a long time doesn't always feel that grate.
Is this corrosion?

I should probably start storing my blades in a more suitable place..

 

[Steve56]

To my nose Ballistol smells awful. Even if it was amazing I couldn't use it.

Me too.

 

[Gamma]

Ballistol smells just awful.
It's not all that amazing actually, but it is a good product for what it is.

I think a blade that sits around doing nothing can possibly dull a bit. When bright metal starts to look less polished, from simply sitting around, I would guess that is oxidation. Corrosion is a different reaction, technically.
It gets confusing here...

 

[JPO]

There seems to be a difference in how well different steel types handle "long term" storage. My O1 tool steel razors seem to degrade more then my Sweedish steel and c135 steel.

Are some of these steels actually less corrosion resistant?

 

[rbscebu]

There seems to be a difference in how well different steel types handle "long term" storage. My O1 tool steel razors seem to degrade more then my Sweedish steel and c135 steel.

Are some of these steels actually less corrosion resistant?

Most, if not all, steels are an alloy of some sort. It is these alloying metals/minerals, whatever they are, that affect the steel's susceptibility to oxidation (rust).

 

[Wid]

And here I just dry with a towel, wipe with some tp, strop and put away. Time to step up my game