Picking out my First Stones!!

[michiganlover]

So I am pretty committed to straight razor shaving, and would like to consider my first honing stones.

The default seems to be a Norton 4000/8000 combo.

Amazon sells it by itself for $83.20:

http://www.amazon.com/Norton-24336-Japanese-Style-Combination-Waterstone/dp/B0006NFDPI/ref=pd_sbs_indust_1

or as part of a combo with an additional 220/1000 grit stone, and the lapping plate for $119.99:

http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU

What is everyone's thoughts?? Do I need the lapping plate, and how useful will the 220/1000 stone be?

Would I be better off with just the 4000/8000, and maybe investing the extra money into something like a Chinese 12K (I already have a Carbonium Barber's Hone).

I also have a Chromium Oxide pasted balsa bench strop, along with a diamond pasted felt bench strop.

Thanks for your help.

~John~

 

[gaj90027]

Sounds like we are on the exact same path here

I also have the carborundum (sp?) barber hone, a chromium oxide pasted balsa bench strop and a diamond pasted felt bench strop.

I'm leaning towards the $120 norton kit as I believe the lapping plate is necessary and you might as well get the rougher stone in case you decide to try your hand at restoring ebay specials.

I think I'm going to get the norton kit and a coticule and hopefully be done with it.

 

[Woodash]

Sounds like we are on the exact same path here

I also have the carborundum (sp?) barber hone, a chromium oxide pasted balsa bench strop and a diamond pasted felt bench strop.

I'm leaning towards the $120 norton kit as I believe the lapping plate is necessary and you might as well get the rougher stone in case you decide to try your hand at restoring ebay specials.

I think I'm going to get the norton kit and a coticule and hopefully be done with it.

Just curious: what will the Norton 4/8 give you that the coti won't?

 

[gaj90027]

Just curious: what will the Norton 4/8 give you that the coti won't?

Without any honing experience at all my only answer is that based on waaaayyy too much reading I believe the Norton will have an "easier" learning curve for me. My initial plan is to hone with the Norton and finish on the coticule. My long term plan is to master the coticule and use it exclusively. I have one straight honed by Ray-man that he did entirely on the coticule and I love the edge, it's second to none. I also have one straight honed on a norton 4k/8k and finished with a coticule and that edge is a VERY close second.

 

[mainaman]

I think I'm going to get the norton kit and a coticule and hopefully be done with it.

it is never over

 

[gaj90027]

it is never over

I realized that sounded ridiculous before I even hit the send button.

In my unskilled hands I may find that I hate the norton and the coticule and end up with naniwa's or DMT's or who knows what.

 

[jtrops]

I'm no expert, but I have been very happy with my DMT 1200, and 8k. That followed by my Carborundum 101a has given me very nice edges. I use a CrOx balsa strop every few weeks or so, and I can't be happier with my edges.

I spent less than $100 for my DMT's, and I already had the barber hone. It's nice to never have to lap them, or soak them. When I want to hone I just put some water on the DMT's and start at it. I'm sure that one day I will want to get something like a Coti, but for now it's a good system that keeps me shaving.

 

[azmark]

Check out The Superior Shave if you're looking at the Norton's set. Great prices and service.

 

[Woodash]

Without any honing experience at all my only answer is that based on waaaayyy too much reading I believe the Norton will have an "easier" learning curve for me. My initial plan is to hone with the Norton and finish on the coticule. My long term plan is to master the coticule and use it exclusively. I have one straight honed by Ray-man that he did entirely on the coticule and I love the edge, it's second to none. I also have one straight honed on a norton 4k/8k and finished with a coticule and that edge is a VERY close second.

Good answer, makes sense. I'm probably just a few weeks ahead of you and as I continue to work with the coticle, I am amazed (and partially mystified) by how subtle and yet dynamic it is. I set a bevel on it recently and finished the edge well enough to shave with it twice. I'm still looking for improvement, but I find out something more everyday about all this. I plan on getting at least a 1K Naniwa myself soon (12K hopefully to follow) so that I can explore things on a platform that's a little - well let's say a little less of a moving target. At least that's how it seems to me right now.

Good luck.

 

[azmark]

Without any honing experience at all my only answer is that based on waaaayyy too much reading I believe the Norton will have an "easier" learning curve for me. My initial plan is to hone with the Norton and finish on the coticule. My long term plan is to master the coticule and use it exclusively. I have one straight honed by Ray-man that he did entirely on the coticule and I love the edge, it's second to none. I also have one straight honed on a norton 4k/8k and finished with a coticule and that edge is a VERY close second.

Good answer, makes sense. I'm probably just a few weeks ahead of you and as I continue to work with the coticle, I am amazed (and partially mystified) by how subtle and yet dynamic it is. I set a bevel on it recently and finished the edge well enough to shave with it twice. I'm still looking for improvement, but I find out something more everyday about all this. I plan on getting at least a 1K Naniwa myself soon (12K hopefully to follow) so that I can explore things on a platform that's a little - well let's say a little less of a moving target. At least that's how it seems to me right now.

Good luck.

You can get a nice variety with a Norton set up and Coti. You can try shaving right off the 8K, not as bad as you may imagine. You can progress from 4k to 8k and finish on the coti, pyramid then finish on the coti or just use the coticule for everything. And unless you're doing honing services, a Norton should last quite a while before lappings and replacements.

 

[Utopian]

In my unskilled hands I may find that I hate the norton and the coticule and end up with naniwa's or DMT's or who knows what.

The feel and performance of the Nortons is different from the Naniwas, but you will not hate one and love the other. You really cannot go wrong with the Nortons. If you find that you don't want them any longer, you can always sell them and recoup most of your cost.
Also, regarding whether you should get the lower grit hones, you should at least get the 1k if you want to do any significant amount of bevel setting or edge repair.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I take it you want to buy and restore razors.

Do you want to be able to buy and fix chipped razors or lap hones on a diamond plate? If so pick up a DMT XX, XC, or C

Beyond that you'll want a Beveler. I use 1200 DMT (EF). I like it. I doubt there's a hone in the world that's any faster when used properly.

After that I'd say you've got a few options. Coti (will take you to shave ready), Norton (or comparible synth) in the 4k/8k ranges (You'll probably want a finisher after this, but you say you've got a barber hone already, so there you go, or DMT EE (same boat as the 4k/8k option, but in my experience an easier and faster path to take). There are other options of course, I've seen a couple folks use nothing but Jnats start to finish, but these seem the most common ones.

Personally, I'd get this setup:
http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8E-Dia-S...f=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274412633&sr=1-26
http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8X-Conti...sr_1_100?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274412760&sr=1-100
And a Coti with a slurry. Assuming you're willing to learn how to use coti slurry to progress. You can actually use the coti in place of the EF even, but the EF is much, much, much faster. If you don't want to bother with coti's go the full DMT setup (what I use on most razors) and snag an EE too
http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8EE-Cont...sr_1_116?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274412760&sr=1-116

Some people complain that the DMT's lack feedback. They don't. It's just much more subtle than with synthetic whetstones and requires periodic rinsing of the stone. I typically rinse my EF once when beveling and my EE three times when sharpening. I spray it with a spray bottle then tilt it and let the water run off. Takes two seconds, just keep a towel on your workspace.

(the only difference between this setup and mine is that I own the Interrupted version of the EF because the Continuous version cost MUCH, MUCH more when I bought mine).

The advantage of the Coti route is that with water the coti will almost certainly give a better finish than your barber hone, so you're getting both a stone that fills a role the barber hone can't (sharpening) and upgrading your finisher in one stone.

 

[Neurotopia]

it is never over

Lulz too true. I can't wait to get a new job.....

 

[michiganlover]

Thanks everyone for all of the excellent help so far. I think for purposes of cost, I would pick the Norton set over some of the other choices (such as DMTs).

By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source for a Chinese 12K??

I understand they are sold by several sellers on E-Bay, but does anyone recommend a specific seller??

 

[Troggie]

Woodcraft.com is where I got my 12K Chinese stone.. I also got the 1K/6K King hone as well instead of the Norton 4K/8K as I had a 4k hone already that I found at a local shop. It was 20 bucks for the 12K and depending on what else you order you can get free shipping ( another reason I got the king stone)

 

[Huxley]

Thanks everyone for all of the excellent help so far. I think for purposes of cost, I would pick the Norton set over some of the other choices (such as DMTs).

By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source for a Chinese 12K??

I understand they are sold by several sellers on E-Bay, but does anyone recommend a specific seller??

Open_Razor is good for the c12k, came lapped and chamfered as well.

Trouble with stones most folk will always recommend what they get on with, thing is you will learn what works for one may not work for another.

See im a naniwa super stone guy, i absolutely love the things, great feedback, fast cutter and they wear good, all you need is a cheap nagura stone for any swarf build up, i have tried diamond hones and i honestly don't like the feel of them but yet others swear by them.

Others love the finish of a coti whilst im a shapton 16k and chromox on balsa guy.

Personally, i would choose a naniwa ss 3k/8k combo and a c12k, possibly throw a coti in there if you can spare it.

Do you know anyone who would be willing to let you try a stone, personally i find coti and naniwa ss best for feedback.

 

[azmark]

Thanks everyone for all of the excellent help so far. I think for purposes of cost, I would pick the Norton set over some of the other choices (such as DMTs).

By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source for a Chinese 12K??

I understand they are sold by several sellers on E-Bay, but does anyone recommend a specific seller??

I also recommend WoodCraft if you have one locally. You can also pick up DMT's and Nortons there. I just stopped in yesterday to pick up some Camellia Oil and wood, it's always a nice place to check out.

 

[Chimensch]

I would go right to the coticule and forget the Norton. The coticule is not any harder to learn than the Norton and gives better results. My 2-cents.

 

[thanks]

I hate the Norton stones except for the 8k. They have awful awful feedback. A Coti should be sufficient, although I'm still learning mine.

 

[jtrops]

Thanks everyone for all of the excellent help so far. I think for purposes of cost, I would pick the Norton set over some of the other choices (such as DMTs).

By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source for a Chinese 12K??

I understand they are sold by several sellers on E-Bay, but does anyone recommend a specific seller??

It's interesting that the cost comes out better for Nortons. When I did the math a year ago I ended up with my two DMT's because together they were cheaper than the Norton kit by far, and easier to maintain. I wonder if the prices have gone up that much in a year.