I havent used an injector type razor, but I do understand them to be very rigid in design.
There are quite a few rigid design DE razors. This one as a very inexpensive option for a modern razor.
RazoRock Teck II Safety Razor – ItalianBarber
Ouch.... Horrible irritation on neck
- Thread starter Matt Hardwick
- Start date
I havent used an injector type razor, but I do understand them to be very rigid in design.
There are quite a few rigid design DE razors. This one as a very inexpensive option for a modern razor.
RazoRock Teck II Safety Razor – ItalianBarber
I have a very similar growth pattern, it's not all swirly just seems to change direction. Unlike you @Matt Hardwick, I most definitely am not skinny and I don't have even a hint of an Adam's apple. I think a lot of good advice (crutches) has been given. Eat more bacon is probably among the better ones. I'll echo some of what has been said and add a little more.
Alum post shave does improve the situation. You may not notice it until after a few days use though. TALC or baby powder is also phenomenal at keeping irritation at bay. I have even found that if I have given myself a particularly close shave applying TALC at night before bed helps to "treat" the irritation so I am not compounding the issue.
I strongly suggest you try ditching the hot water/hot towel thing and go straight up COLD water. If you must use the hot towel thing, rinse with cold water before starting your shave and between passes. Then of course apply a cold towel post shave. I would say this above all else is most responsible for the end of my own case of daily irritation.
I would also say, DE or cartridge you WILL be able to rid yourself of daily irritation. I had a heck of a time figuring it out but once I did I never looked back. Yes, stretching is important but it must be done in the right direct and in the right amount. I also found blade angle and pressure are important. Don't try to solve the problem of missed spots by pressing harder, do the opposite (apply NO pressure) and use decisive strokes (not "fast", just keep the blade moving).
I found that a straight razor was the most reliable tool for avoiding irritation ...once I learned to use it that is. Second best is a vintage Schick injector. The injector has a fixed angle and ridged blade, looks a lot like the disposable twin blade jobs. I have received some awesome shaves with the injector.
A quick note on the alum. It's gonna make you pee your shorts when you first rub it on your wet face.
Last thing. If you decide to stick with a cartridge razor, find a decent 2 blade (or even one blade). From what I've read here on the forum the fewer the blades the less the irritation. Atra-II and Mach-III get a lot of praise.
Trust me on the cold water!
Alum post shave does improve the situation. You may not notice it until after a few days use though. TALC or baby powder is also phenomenal at keeping irritation at bay. I have even found that if I have given myself a particularly close shave applying TALC at night before bed helps to "treat" the irritation so I am not compounding the issue.
I strongly suggest you try ditching the hot water/hot towel thing and go straight up COLD water. If you must use the hot towel thing, rinse with cold water before starting your shave and between passes. Then of course apply a cold towel post shave. I would say this above all else is most responsible for the end of my own case of daily irritation.
I would also say, DE or cartridge you WILL be able to rid yourself of daily irritation. I had a heck of a time figuring it out but once I did I never looked back. Yes, stretching is important but it must be done in the right direct and in the right amount. I also found blade angle and pressure are important. Don't try to solve the problem of missed spots by pressing harder, do the opposite (apply NO pressure) and use decisive strokes (not "fast", just keep the blade moving).
I found that a straight razor was the most reliable tool for avoiding irritation ...once I learned to use it that is. Second best is a vintage Schick injector. The injector has a fixed angle and ridged blade, looks a lot like the disposable twin blade jobs. I have received some awesome shaves with the injector.
A quick note on the alum. It's gonna make you pee your shorts when you first rub it on your wet face.
Last thing. If you decide to stick with a cartridge razor, find a decent 2 blade (or even one blade). From what I've read here on the forum the fewer the blades the less the irritation. Atra-II and Mach-III get a lot of praise.
Trust me on the cold water!
If carts are a must the personna comfort twin (atra style) carts aren't terrible. They can be had for x100 around $12 on amazon, have very sharp blades, and a wider spacing so the "lift and tug" action, which really causes a lot of irritation, is significantly less then most other multiple blade razors.
- Thread starter
- #24
Nice. I thibk my other problem is just my razor is very aggresive. Its the WSP "el Grande" razor i feel as though it dosnt want to glide or move well on my face. But i blame razor because ive use a VDH razor and never nicked my self and my WSP soap lather is on point. So partly i belive this razor is just a little bugger. I dont hear any audible cussting and i dont ever really feel the blade. Maybe because astra sp blades rock. Idk. What do yoy all thibk if el grande razor
Atra II was the best I ever got for cartridges. Shick injector single edge are great too. DE takes practice and a synergy of the best of many other parameters you don't have to worry about with the first two. That said satisfaction is something special and worth discovering the sensation or repeating it.
The trick you'll find is multiple angles of attack, doing soft slow beard reduction on those passes with little to some resistance and saving the worst direction(s) for last. Stretching & J-hooking helps. Very attentive application of wet slick soap solution is a must. And some day, after many never minds, almost theres, and oh-it's-just-so-close; you'll find you have more good days than bad.
seriously!
The trick you'll find is multiple angles of attack, doing soft slow beard reduction on those passes with little to some resistance and saving the worst direction(s) for last. Stretching & J-hooking helps. Very attentive application of wet slick soap solution is a must. And some day, after many never minds, almost theres, and oh-it's-just-so-close; you'll find you have more good days than bad.
seriously!
I've never used a WSP el grande but I did get a different WSP once. I ended up sending it back to Lee because the blade alignment was awful. Looking at pics of the el Grande, the handle looks great. If you drop a blade in the top cap and it wiggles a lot, you might be getting a poor blade alignment. Take a look at the blade exposure on both sides, look closely at the corners. It should look like the blade is squared up and even. You can hold the blade in place as you assemble the razor to ensure better alignment. If the blade is really wiggly and you are getting poor alignment you might want a different head.
I don't know what that razor costs but I like the handle enough I would consider a Maggard Razors V-2 head (assuming you are looking for a different head that is not overly aggressive). Maggard has a ton of great shaving supplies, you may end up finding a few more things you want (like alum)
If alignment isn't an issue you might just be using an aggressive angle ...unless that head is truly more aggressive.
EDIT: I just checked my purchase records and it WAS the WSP el Grande that I sent back because the blade play (wiggle) was too much. I'm pretty certain your issue was blade mid-alignment.
I don't know what that razor costs but I like the handle enough I would consider a Maggard Razors V-2 head (assuming you are looking for a different head that is not overly aggressive). Maggard has a ton of great shaving supplies, you may end up finding a few more things you want (like alum)
If alignment isn't an issue you might just be using an aggressive angle ...unless that head is truly more aggressive.
EDIT: I just checked my purchase records and it WAS the WSP el Grande that I sent back because the blade play (wiggle) was too much. I'm pretty certain your issue was blade mid-alignment.
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It appears to me an EJ/Merkur type clone.
In comparison to a more rigid design that holds the blade edge with as little flex as possible.
A quick simple test is to straighten a paper clip and carefully apply downward pressure to the blade edge when its loaded in a razor. In an EJ type head, or even in the Gillette NEW LC I gave to a family member, who also doesnt like it ATG after having used it, the amount of blade flex is plainly obvious. When you try the same thing in say a Gillette TTO, NEW SC, post war Tech ect, the blade flex is near zero. My Gillette NEW SC which is really the only razor I use now, the blade is held in such a rigid state the blade itself feels like its a part of the head. There is zero flex in the blade edge and that translates into the smoothest most comfortable shaves I've ever had.
The less a blade can flex the smoother and more effectively it can cut.
- Thread starter
- #28
Where would i find a rigid razor and who makes them. Yup looked at my razor and seems the alignment is great but the blade seems to be bigger than the head. Idk how to explain it but yes the blade does seem to flex quite a bit and from reviews on line it is an aggressive razor
I posted one in an above post.
Really any Gillette TTO, OLD type, NEW SC, post war Tech as far as vintage razors go. For more modern razors see that RazoRock Teck II in the above link or the DE1 here: RazoRock DE1 Safety Razor – ItalianBarber along with the equally inexpensive Wieshi and/or Baili TTO Chinese manufactured razors, both of which are highly spoken of by many on this forum and also are all very mild razors.
I believe both the RazoRock Teck II and the DE1 use the same heads, only the handles are different.
Modern more high end and expensive razors would be Timeless razors which are very highly regarded on this forum, and rightly so I think. The Wolfman WR1 razor, which is the one in the pic I posted earlier and less expensive again, the FaTip, but its more aggressive than many. There is also the Feather AS-D2, again a clone of the Gillette Tech but all stainless and very highly regarded by many.
The easiest way to find out if a rigid design will solve your issues would be to pick up a Gillette Tech made after WW2, commonly referred to as the "post war Tech", any Gillette TTO, a Gillette OLD type, or one of the RazoRocks. The price is certainly right on them and as I understand it, they're a clone of the post war Tech.
Once again, a simple forum search of the word "rigid" will yield many threads and much information.
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If it matters, for reference I ditched a Feather AS-D2 and Rockwell 6S in favour of a Timeless .68 SB. Now with a Rapira Platinum Lux, this works extremely well for me at the moment. I've taken an expensive route to this destination, but I still don't regret any of these purchases.
The Feather and Timeless both hold the blade very rigid close to the edge and I agree this seems to be one of the key ingredients to a good unit for me.
The Feather and Timeless both hold the blade very rigid close to the edge and I agree this seems to be one of the key ingredients to a good unit for me.
+1 to this. Technique is the key. Take your time. Don't go for BBS, go for an irritation free shave. This might mean fewer passes, or lighter pressure. For your Adams apple pull your skin to the left or right, or try a swallowing action when shaving that area.
Lots of good advise from the others above. Don't get discouraged, it takes time to get good at something. You will get there.
It also could be one of two very simple things: your razor or your lather.
For me, if I use something like a Gillette tech for example I just don't get bbs no matter the blade which usually results in irritation because I try to push the boundaries of "pressure" to achieve the closest shave possible. With my paa oc slant, paa prismatic, or maggard slant I can easily achieve a comfortable BBS.
Look at your lather also. Maybe you have a runny lather and need more cushion (more product) or maybe you have a fluffy lather but need more slickness (more water). Maybe the soap itself isn't for you. Whenever I try a new razor, new blade, new technique, new anything really I always use barbasol original in a can. Is it as nice as a proper brush lather? No, but it's pretty darn nice and it's consistent. Even the most veteran of wet shaver can have an off day with lather building so, for me, the barbasol rules out several variables. I actually highly advocate use of DE with barbasol/foamy when people just start because it allows them to focus on razor technique first. Most new (not saying you are) wet shavers get more excited about the brush and soap in their hand and expect a great shave from any de simply because they used a brush and soap. I've read countless forums where new members can build a quality lather within a few weeks but 2 years in still get ingrowns and nics and weepers and bumps and can't get BBS. I feel, ymmv, that learning brush lather should be the next step after getting consistent solid shaves.
For me, if I use something like a Gillette tech for example I just don't get bbs no matter the blade which usually results in irritation because I try to push the boundaries of "pressure" to achieve the closest shave possible. With my paa oc slant, paa prismatic, or maggard slant I can easily achieve a comfortable BBS.
Look at your lather also. Maybe you have a runny lather and need more cushion (more product) or maybe you have a fluffy lather but need more slickness (more water). Maybe the soap itself isn't for you. Whenever I try a new razor, new blade, new technique, new anything really I always use barbasol original in a can. Is it as nice as a proper brush lather? No, but it's pretty darn nice and it's consistent. Even the most veteran of wet shaver can have an off day with lather building so, for me, the barbasol rules out several variables. I actually highly advocate use of DE with barbasol/foamy when people just start because it allows them to focus on razor technique first. Most new (not saying you are) wet shavers get more excited about the brush and soap in their hand and expect a great shave from any de simply because they used a brush and soap. I've read countless forums where new members can build a quality lather within a few weeks but 2 years in still get ingrowns and nics and weepers and bumps and can't get BBS. I feel, ymmv, that learning brush lather should be the next step after getting consistent solid shaves.
I'm going to jump on the rigid razor design bandwagon. The aformentioned Razorock Tech II is pretty good, but I prefer a vintage Tech. The genuine article has a smaller, more agile head and feels just a touch more agressive. The Razorock is a good beginner razor and quite forgiving.
I'm 50/50 on a tech but for you it may be a winner. I always got consistent, easy, fast, irritation free shaves from one however I couldn't ever get full legit BBS from one on my face. A tech is my favorite headshaver but just a touch too mild for daily use (for me) however the qualities that made me stop using it may be what would cause you to want to use it. Best part is techs come up on BST and the bay for usually $10 or less all the time so you aren't out much if you don't like it.
It is possible that your currentrazor just isn't for you, maybe try another
It is possible that your currentrazor just isn't for you, maybe try another
Trick is only (ok, at 99 % time) to do a good prep! Try hot shower+hot towel, use some pre shave cream or oil, leave it a couple of minutes while you're making lather. Another trick- use some moisture cream or balm before shave (about 2-3 hours ago). For some people it works well. Don't stay, practised a lot and you'll find ideal formula for BBS shaves.
PS-no pressure to razor whatsoever!
Have a good shaves!
Sent from my Lenovo K33a42 using Tapatalk
PS-no pressure to razor whatsoever!
Have a good shaves!
Sent from my Lenovo K33a42 using Tapatalk
Massive post incoming, sorry...
So your neck sounds a lot like mine. I'm also 29 and have dealt with this for years, so trust me: I empathize. I'm thin and lanky (5'10", 150 pounds), and my adam's apple juts out about a half inch. And where my carotid arteries run there is a divot. My neck hair also does the weird grow down and towards the ears under the jaw line then switch and goes up and towards the ears. I am new to wet shaving and am still getting irritation. The revelation for me and what has decreased my irritation more than about anything I've tried this far was understanding what WTG really means. I apologize if this sounds patronizing or pedantic, but this has changed my shaves.
WTG you want to shave your beard in the direction it grows. Ideally we would shave literally every hair perfectly in the direction it grows. This is quite simply not feasible though. What we can do is use technique to try and make certain that you are going in the predominant direction your beard is growing. DE razors are easier to cheat this some than cartridges, but if you're still getting loads of irritation you may have to what I've taken to doing: I go North to South on my face above the jawline (no irritation here really) then under the jawline, do a North to South angling slightly towards the same side ear and STOP SHAVING when I hit the transition point between my upper and lower neck. Then, I go up from the bottom of my neck towards my jaw South to North and angled slightly towards the same side ear until the transition point. This gives me my WTG pass.
If you have to shave daily, I would limit your number of passes to 2. I would start by doing 2 WTG passes ideally for a week and see if you continue having irritation. And, I would try to really go WTG. It is a royal pain, and takes longer (I take about 30 minutes from prep to everything packed up again) but seems to be working for me. This will not be a close shave. At all. It will most likely be barely SAS. You may feel the need to do touchups and ATG and other such things. Don't do it! The first week you need to let your neck and face heal as much as possible, while still exfoliating and trimming the hairs down. If no irritation after that first week, then change the 2nd WTG pass to a XTG pass, but still try to keep things truly XTG. This pass is easier as XTG on my neck is usually just about straight sideways, so it will take less time and may not require quite the attention level. If you can do that without irritation after a week, then see if adding a 3rd XTG pass works without irritation (go opposite the other XTG or however you can manage it). I haven't been able to add a 3rd pass yet, but this is what I will do whenever I completely rid myself of irritation. If at any point you start getting irritation, go back to the previous step for another week.
Lots of good advice from other posters: rigid blade helps immensely, as does alum. Try to change only one thing at a time, however. So if you're going to start trying to change up your technique, make darn sure you didn't try alum that day or anything else new. Everyone here says to change only one thing at a time because it is good science. The scientific method depends on controlling variables and minimizing the effect they have on the experiment outcome. Our experiment is the elimination of shaving irritation for ourselves. I made the mistake early on of too many changes at once, and it has added a month to me figuring things out. This is a very important experiment to me, so I'm not trying to not change more than one variable at a time.
Lastly, this neck problem you're having sounds like it's been there for awhile. I was frustrated when I first started because I heard on a shave video "many men report elimination of their shaving irritation after only one week!" After a month, I was getting very discouraged. I finally found a thread where a gentleman said it took him 2 months to eliminate his irritation. I'm closing in on two months, but I still have a little bit here and there. Nowhere near what it was though, and I have a feeling mine may take closer to 6 months to resolve fully. I'll try to track down pictures of a few weeks ago with my level of bumps and irritation, and then post my current picture after I shave tomorrow so you can see how things have been going. I'll also try to get a shot of what my grain and strokes end up looking like.
So your neck sounds a lot like mine. I'm also 29 and have dealt with this for years, so trust me: I empathize. I'm thin and lanky (5'10", 150 pounds), and my adam's apple juts out about a half inch. And where my carotid arteries run there is a divot. My neck hair also does the weird grow down and towards the ears under the jaw line then switch and goes up and towards the ears. I am new to wet shaving and am still getting irritation. The revelation for me and what has decreased my irritation more than about anything I've tried this far was understanding what WTG really means. I apologize if this sounds patronizing or pedantic, but this has changed my shaves.
WTG you want to shave your beard in the direction it grows. Ideally we would shave literally every hair perfectly in the direction it grows. This is quite simply not feasible though. What we can do is use technique to try and make certain that you are going in the predominant direction your beard is growing. DE razors are easier to cheat this some than cartridges, but if you're still getting loads of irritation you may have to what I've taken to doing: I go North to South on my face above the jawline (no irritation here really) then under the jawline, do a North to South angling slightly towards the same side ear and STOP SHAVING when I hit the transition point between my upper and lower neck. Then, I go up from the bottom of my neck towards my jaw South to North and angled slightly towards the same side ear until the transition point. This gives me my WTG pass.
If you have to shave daily, I would limit your number of passes to 2. I would start by doing 2 WTG passes ideally for a week and see if you continue having irritation. And, I would try to really go WTG. It is a royal pain, and takes longer (I take about 30 minutes from prep to everything packed up again) but seems to be working for me. This will not be a close shave. At all. It will most likely be barely SAS. You may feel the need to do touchups and ATG and other such things. Don't do it! The first week you need to let your neck and face heal as much as possible, while still exfoliating and trimming the hairs down. If no irritation after that first week, then change the 2nd WTG pass to a XTG pass, but still try to keep things truly XTG. This pass is easier as XTG on my neck is usually just about straight sideways, so it will take less time and may not require quite the attention level. If you can do that without irritation after a week, then see if adding a 3rd XTG pass works without irritation (go opposite the other XTG or however you can manage it). I haven't been able to add a 3rd pass yet, but this is what I will do whenever I completely rid myself of irritation. If at any point you start getting irritation, go back to the previous step for another week.
Lots of good advice from other posters: rigid blade helps immensely, as does alum. Try to change only one thing at a time, however. So if you're going to start trying to change up your technique, make darn sure you didn't try alum that day or anything else new. Everyone here says to change only one thing at a time because it is good science. The scientific method depends on controlling variables and minimizing the effect they have on the experiment outcome. Our experiment is the elimination of shaving irritation for ourselves. I made the mistake early on of too many changes at once, and it has added a month to me figuring things out. This is a very important experiment to me, so I'm not trying to not change more than one variable at a time.
Lastly, this neck problem you're having sounds like it's been there for awhile. I was frustrated when I first started because I heard on a shave video "many men report elimination of their shaving irritation after only one week!" After a month, I was getting very discouraged. I finally found a thread where a gentleman said it took him 2 months to eliminate his irritation. I'm closing in on two months, but I still have a little bit here and there. Nowhere near what it was though, and I have a feeling mine may take closer to 6 months to resolve fully. I'll try to track down pictures of a few weeks ago with my level of bumps and irritation, and then post my current picture after I shave tomorrow so you can see how things have been going. I'll also try to get a shot of what my grain and strokes end up looking like.
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