Old straight razor. Can it be used?

[The Invisible Edge]

I have a 5/8 Kropp that's like new even though it's 70 years old - it shaves very well. All Kropps of like vintage are made of silver steel, which is a form of high carbon steel. I find PEEK metal polish the best (better than autosol which is a bit gritty when drying) for blades.

 

[FaPat5]

I gave it a quick go on the cleaner side yesterday (one side is actually quite clean), just to see how it goes, but its really difficult, as I just could not get the razor flat on there. I either ran it over so softly that the cutting side lifted up, or did not hold it right, so one side went up. But I'll keep trying. First I'll clean both sides.

 

[Steerpike]

It's very easy when learning to hone, to "stub" a razor- the spine lifts, and the blade is dulled on the hone, meaning you have to hone quite a bit of metal away to establish the bevel again. So make sure you hold it so that if any side will lift away from the hone, it will be the blade, not the spine. Use enough pressure to keep the blade lying flat- the blade and spine should sit flat on the hone when you press down, this is how you MUST keep them throughout honing if you are sharpening. At the end of each stroke, roll it over on the spine, blade up, and go back the other way.
If you keep the scales "back" more like they are when shaving, rather than sticking right out in line with the blade, it will balance the razor so that if it is held loosely, the blade lifts off the hone, the spine staying resting on the hone. So I suggest you hold it like that to avoid stubbing the blade. Did you read razorcentral? The instructions there are excellent, read and reread them so you know exactly what you are trying to achieve in terms of restoring the geometry of the edge- it has plenty of "close up" pictures that make it very easy to visualise what you are doing.
Look along the edge, and turn it to reflect the light- you should see the stripe of worn metal where it contacts the hone, which should be even, and disappear at the edge (where it meets the corresponding bevel on the other side). If you see a second silvery line when you turn the razor to the light, just before the edge, this is most likely where you stubbed the blade, or it has worn and become "ovalled" from stropping (this is very likely if the former owner had an abrasibe pasted hanging strop). All of this will have to be gotten rid of by honing on the correct bevel, until the bevels meet.

I must emphasise the importance of keeping the blade flat- better that you overhone at first, than that you keep stubbing the edge and make more work for yourself. When you overhone, you can pull it a few times through a matchstick, and remove the wire edge. Then only a few strokes to get it sharp again. But if you stub it, you will be there for ages setting the bevel flat again.

Hope this helps, any questions just ask.

 

[FaPat5]

It's very easy when learning to hone, to "stub" a razor- the spine lifts, and the blade is dulled on the hone, meaning you have to hone quite a bit of metal away to establish the bevel again. So make sure you hold it so that if any side will lift away from the hone, it will be the blade, not the spine. Use enough pressure to keep the blade lying flat- the blade and spine should sit flat on the hone when you press down, this is how you MUST keep them throughout honing if you are sharpening. At the end of each stroke, roll it over on the spine, blade up, and go back the other way.
If you keep the scales "back" more like they are when shaving, rather than sticking right out in line with the blade, it will balance the razor so that if it is held loosely, the blade lifts off the hone, the spine staying resting on the hone. So I suggest you hold it like that to avoid stubbing the blade. Did you read razorcentral? The instructions there are excellent, read and reread them so you know exactly what you are trying to achieve in terms of restoring the geometry of the edge- it has plenty of "close up" pictures that make it very easy to visualise what you are doing.
Look along the edge, and turn it to reflect the light- you should see the stripe of worn metal where it contacts the hone, which should be even, and disappear at the edge (where it meets the corresponding bevel on the other side). If you see a second silvery line when you turn the razor to the light, just before the edge, this is most likely where you stubbed the blade, or it has worn and become "ovalled" from stropping (this is very likely if the former owner had an abrasibe pasted hanging strop). All of this will have to be gotten rid of by honing on the correct bevel, until the bevels meet.

I must emphasise the importance of keeping the blade flat- better that you overhone at first, than that you keep stubbing the edge and make more work for yourself. When you overhone, you can pull it a few times through a matchstick, and remove the wire edge. Then only a few strokes to get it sharp again. But if you stub it, you will be there for ages setting the bevel flat again.

Hope this helps, any questions just ask.

It was fortunately always the blade that lifted, but I realised that this was because I kept trying to hone on a table, whereas if I tried it in my hand, it became much easier.

 

[Steerpike]

Excellent! Thank gods you didn't stub it, saved yourself a LOT of work there!

If the blade lifts, no harm done, but you want enough pressure to hone it- with lather on it, providing the hone is flat (did you check it with a ruler?) it will develop a suction to the hone, when it is nearly done, and at that point you can really ease off on the pressure, and use the light touch that sets the best edge, with no fear of the edge lifting- the suction holds it there. Before you feel that suction, don't be afraid to press gently, it will save you time. Just don't press so hard that you might slip, or loose control.

Keeping it on your hand allows the best feedback all round, good to see you've picked up on that. Have fun!

 

[FaPat5]

Well, I honed it dry for a while, because it really was blunt. Then I got bored, and tried it with a bit of water, and then some lather. It is definately sharper than when I first got it. However, it is not quite ready yet. However, I have two small issues; firstly, in terms of this lather business, I only have a choice between either the Wilkinson shaving soap you can pick up in tesco, or a Gillette Gel (1 Fusion, 1 Mach3 gel); secondly, I may just be overly paranoid, but somehow the razor seems slightly sharper at the bottom, but it may just be me being paranoid.

 

[Steelforge]

Well, I honed it dry for a while, because it really was blunt. Then I got bored, and tried it with a bit of water, and then some lather. It is definately sharper than when I first got it. However, it is not quite ready yet. However, I have two small issues; firstly, in terms of this lather business, I only have a choice between either the Wilkinson shaving soap you can pick up in tesco, or a Gillette Gel (1 Fusion, 1 Mach3 gel); secondly, I may just be overly paranoid, but somehow the razor seems slightly sharper at the bottom, but it may just be me being paranoid.

If you have an Asda near you they sell Palmolive shave cream and soap. The soap comes in little sticks for about £0.79 and the cream comes in toothpaste style tubes for about £1.75 or so. It's actually quite good stuff, despite being very cheap lots of people like it and reccomend it. Lots better than the WIlkinson stuff, although even that is better than the various "goop in a can" that's on sale.

 

[FaPat5]

Well, I went tothe same carboot sale today, where I originally got my Kropp Razor, and the same guy was there again. Initially, I bought from him a strange looking thing, that I will discuss in due course, but after that, I went back, and he sold me the 4 remaining razors he had for £5. However, they are not all in as good condition as the Kropp (I think that one was the best one he had). If you look at the first picture I hosted (I left them large so you could see the detail - also, I put clingfilm on the scanner so I don't get rust and crap on there). The one with the smaller blade, with the black handle still looks pretty good, just needs a cleanup, and sharpening I think. The very rusty black one I will have to clean, and then see if it can still be used. The one with the white handle has a chip in it, as you can see. Can that still be rescued?



Next up, is the worst razor, which was actually the one that looked the nicest. It has a nice engraving on it, and was called "The Mistletoe Razor", it has a little shield with "HC" in front of it. However, as you can see, it is severly damaged, and I think I can throw it away, because it just looks horrendous. Does it still have a chance at all??



Finally, this is the special thing, and I have never seen one of these before, ever, but it just looks so curious, I had to have it. I can't get the toothed thing off it, but I have a feeling, that it come soff, and you can obviously put the other blade in, and that other rectangular thing can, I think, be substituted for the toothed thing (sorry for the amount of "things"). Can anyone tell me anything about this tool, I know it is not strictly speeking a straight razor, but still?

 

[Steerpike]

OK, about the razors- The bone handled one, with the chipped blade, looks to me like a gonner. Shame because it's a nice looking razor, but the chip is quite deep, you'd have to hone away a lot of metal to level the edge out, which would leave you with a much narrower razor. Also, you'd end up with the edge much too close to the ridge, so the blade would not be as flexible.
The two black handled ones look like you can clean them up- be prepared to hone the badly rusted one quite severely if the rust has eaten into the edge, but you may be able to get it working again.
As for the Mistletoe Razor, what a shame! You won't get that working again in a hurry. Here's an idea though- dismantle it (carefully), then when you get a staright with boring or broken scales, you can put on those lovely inlaid ones! Make sure if you ever do that the blade you are putting in is more or less the same as the one you took out of it, to ensure a good fit.
I think the toothy gadget is a disposible blade staright intended for trimming hair short, but I can't say for sure. I don't know if you can still get blades to fit it.

As to shaving lather, I assume you have a brush? I strongly second the Palmolive suggestion- great stuff, very cheap, good lube, good smell, doesn't dry out, and very skin friendly. I used to use Palmolive sticks all the time. Keep away from Erasmic- it's nearly useless in my experience.
The Palmolive soap stick will last for months, and is cheaper. However I find creams soften the stubble better, which may be important if you haven't got your blade as sharp as you could. I reccomend that you lather up, then strop, then massage in the lather with your fingers, then hold a hot wet flannel to your face to really soften the bristles, before lathering up again and proceeding with the shave. I have steel wire stubble, and this really improved the comfort of my shaves. I assume you have a brush, if you don't, a "pure bristle" does just fine and comes VERY cheap.

What tests have you tried with the razor? If on the thumbnail test one part draws smoothly and seems sharp, but the other just slides over with no "draw", then you need to work on it a bit more- you need it all as sharp as it gets. Remember the matchstick trick if you overhone. You can sometimes see black traces in the cut on the matchstick when you overhoned- draw it through a few times until you cant see these, this is the burr. You'll need to give it a couple more strokes on the hone after that top get the edge good.

When it passes the hanging hair test it should be good to go, especially if the edge felt even all the way on your thumbnail. You may need to strop it well before it will pass this test- it won't come off the stone this sharp unless you are REALLY good!

Good luck, good to hear you are having fun. If you can't seem to get the edge you need with the stone and the strop, a pasted paddle strop with a fine paste can make it a lot easier to get this last degree of sharpness- in a month or so I may be able to make you one, if you need one. Of course by then you may well be well on your way to being an expert with the hone, practice and testing is what it takes.

 

[FaPat5]

I had a feeling those two white razors were lost, but I thought I'd just show them to you anyway. It is a shame the nicest is in the worst condition. However, of the black ones, the non-rusty one is in really good condition, almost as good as the Kropp, just needs a it of polish, and sharpening. The rusty one is a little jagged at the blade because of the rust, but I'll keep trying, at least with some effort the rust is clearing off (although I had to use the roug side of a kitchen sponge to get some of it off). As for the hair thing, I found out that this Durham Duplex company still exists, and they sell all sorts of knives, blades, etc. However, the blades that came with it are quite thick, I think they are meant to be sharpened up, although I don't know how, my hone would probably not do it, and I don't want to wreck it. I have seen a few DE razor blade hones on ebay in the past, maybe one of those, but I'm not gonna use it anyway, but its in such good condition, only rust is a little on the spare blade. Also, with regard to the lather, I got that Palmolive shaving cream, and I do have a brush, one of those "Men-U" pure bristle brushes you can get in boots, I've had it for a while, and its nice, although I did give my Dad a badger hair one, and that's really nice, so for christmas or so I'll get one of those. Also, with regard to the razor, it still requires me to actually pull a hair over the blade for it to cut, but I did try to cut a few hairs on my hand, and it will do it going with the direction the hair goes, but not against, so at least it will cut something now, before it wouldn't even cut those. But it will take a little longer.

I found out something about that toothed thing. Firstly, it seems that Durham Duplex still makes blades for it, secondly, if you look here; http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/...s/gutenberg/1/8/3/3/18333/18333-h/18333-h.htm scroll down a bit, and you can see an advert with one of these. Also, I think if I take the toothed thing off (which I just tried, and it worked after a while) and put that rectangular cover on, it will double as a sort of straight razor. At least this is wha tI can infer from that ad, and just the way the thing looks. I'm a bit frightened to use it, so I won't.

 

[FaPat5]

By the way, how does this ranking system work? I mean those titles under my username.

 

[Steerpike]

That stuff about the Durham Duplex is very interesting! Maybe you should order a few blades, and try it out? That way you could see how it feels to shave with a really sharp blade, so you'd know what you are aiming for with the honing of your other razors. On the other hand, it can be hard at first to get a staright as sharp as a DE blade, and you can get a reasonable shave with them when they are nearly as sharp. Getting them as sharp as possible is ideal of yourse- makes everything much easier.
Maybe the blades were meant to be resharpened- concave hones were made for the purpose, and also gadgets to hold a blade at the right angle so you could use a standard hone and strop.

Make sure you keep the scales off the razors with destroyed blades, you can put them on other razors and make them look really good!

As to your most rusty razor, you may be there for some time if the edge is more than a tiny bit uneven, trying to do it on a carboprundum hone. If you want I could have a go at honing it up for you- I have a 1K waterstone which is great for restoring abused razors, as it cuts so fast. PM me if you are interested.

The ranking system? The god of badgers only knows- it just gets weirder and weirder.

 

[FaPat5]

I'm afraid you'll have to wait with this rusty razor, unless you wanna take a look at it, as it is getting difficult to get the rust off. Maybe you wanna take a look at it, but I'm hoping it can still be rescued.

 

[FaPat5]

Ok, I have a question. I realise I could try to read this up in a lot of places, but I am naturally lazy, and this way is just much more convenient. When does one know, when its time to stop honing, and start stropping. From what I have read, stropping is an important part of keeping the razor nice and sharp, but when should the stropping part start, and how do you know when you have stropped enough, or when you need more? To be honest, I would like to avoid stropping then test shaving, then stropping more, then shaving more. Surely, when you strop after shaving, you have lost some of the sharpness you had before, and then you are actually just getting it back to its pre-shave state, and as such, might only do about 4 or 5 more.

 

[Steerpike]

Right, when honing, to avoid overhoning, you have to know when to stop. Partly this is experience, but the feeling of suction to the hone it indicative of it being nearly done. Then you do the thumbnail test (see razorcentral for how to interpret the results), and if it passes, you strop.

You can't overstrop, the only harm that can be done is if you let the strop sag badly, or if you dont keep the razor flat- then it rolls the edge, and may mutilate your face when you try shaving with it. So don't roll the edge!

Generally the more you strop the better, most people like 30 -40 strokes, I think. The strop I sent you is quite small, so you'll need to strop more- maybe twice as many strokes. After honing, I strop twice as many times as I would normally, to make sure the edge is nice and smooth- and then I'll usually put the razor back in it's box, and strop it again before I shave. I started doing this because I found that sometimes after honing the edge was sharp enough, but the shaves were not so comfortable, until I had shaved with it a couple of times, when it would "settle". Eventually I realised that this must be because the edge comes off the hone with it's teeth a little irregular, but a good bit of stropping can correct this, by drawing them together.

When you shave, those teeth get bent out of shape a bit. Some folks say strop after shaving, other sources, notably the old barbers manuals, say that the teeth partly realign themselves overnight, or a day or two, so you should only strop the razor before shaving. I like to strop before I shave anyway, so the lather has more time to soften my stubble.

After stropping, if it passes the hanging hair test, it's ready to shave. That's how you know, and beyond that, the only test is shaving with it. You come to appreciate different qualities of edge after a while, and can tell the difference off different hones. But what really matters is that it should cut the stubble easily, and leave minimal or no irritation. You will tend to cut yourself or irritate your skin more with a dull blade, as it will pull at the hairs, and you will unconciosly push harder, to get it to work. A really sharp blade just has to skim over your face, so there is no real potential for cuts or soreness.

 

[FaPat5]

All right, thank you. My Kropp is already pretty sharp, but it still does not seem as sharp at the top as at the bottom. I think that is because when I started honing, the blade would lift slightly, at times when I was a little too soft with it, so I think the bottom got honed more than the top. However, my issue is that I am unsure where the sharper part of the blade actually starts. Also, I feel that if I hone the blade more, it will still be sharper on one half, or become overhoned on that sharper half, while the top half is ok. However, if I start just honing the top half for a while, when if I start a sort of see-saw effect, where suddenly the top is too sharp, and when I try to remedy that, the bottom will be sharper again? What do you think? I'm really stuck, and a little worried to continue. Of all the razors I bought (of which you can obviously already forget 2, and the really rusty one is a real bit of work), this one was in the best condition. That's why I bought this one in particular, to start with. It was the best there, and although I have another that's good, this is my favourite, and I don't want to end up damaging it.

 

[Steerpike]

Well, you've not overhoned yet, so that's a start. I'd keep going with those diagonal, sweeping strokes, until you are satisfied that the duller part of the blade is sharp enough. If it feels like that part that you got sharp first is overhoned when you do the thumbnail test after that, just pull the whole length of it through a matchstick a few times to remove the burr, then give it about four nice light, even strokes to bring the whole edge back to sharpness.

It is important to keep your strokes on the hone even- the same angle across the hone, so the scratch pattern is all in line, and the teeth line up well. If you try hining just one end of the razor, you will not be able to keep it even. Don't worry if you do overhone- you can take the wire edge off easily with a match. You just need plenty of practice until your honing is even and regular, and you can set a good edge along the length of the blade. Just do the tests often, and when it seems good, take it and strop it well, then try the hair test. If it doesn't pass, you can go back to the hone, none the worse for having stropped it, and give it a few more strokes on that.
Are you getting the feeling of suction on the hone?

It sounds like you are doing very well, keep it up. It just takes plenty of practice.

 

[FaPat5]

Exactly how much lather should be on the hone? I tried that palmolive cream, but that still only gives me a small layer, like the wilkinson soap. Should there be a lot?

 

[FaPat5]

OK, got the lather working as good as it got. Now for a further status report on the razor. The bottom half seems pretty good. If I pull it along my nail, I can feel a little pulling, as it is digging in, but the top half still does not possess that pull, and fails to cut any hair, as easily as the bottom half. Isn't there anything I can do about this?

 

[Steerpike]

The lather needn't be all that copious, just enough to lubricate it works for me. As to getting all the blade sharp, just keep going. If any part of it overhones before you get the dull part working, use a match to remove the burr, then give it a couple more strokes on the hone.