NYC Bans Smoking in Parks and at Beaches

[jwhite]

When the private sector or persons build their own recreational areas, they can decide the rules for them.

I'm all for Liberalism and one's right to decide for oneself, but I also believe that smoking needs to be fought at every step. The smoking ban has been so great in my country, I truly applaud it.

EDIT
I'm not trying to start an argument, as I hardly realise the situation in NYC (compared to where I live etc). But this is public responsibility too. If individuals were able to keep the park clean by not littering, throwing cigarette butts around and all that stuff, this law wouldn't be there.

We have a law against drinking alcohol in public, in public parks as well. But in Summer time, the police don't bother anyone who take it easy and enjoy a couple of cans/bottles. If you get rowdy or loud though, they'll come fine you.

Just don't forget that the public has a responsibility too. It's not always about the crazy government trying to shackle the little man.

This is intended as participation in polite discussion please, take it in that light.

First, the private sector has built recreation arias for adults in the form of pubs, neighborhood bars, and rest arias both in privately owned offices and gardens for the use of a business' employees. The public has taken them away a long time ago. I agree that one shouldn't leave their cigarette buts laying around, but that does happen when you remove the ashtrays and smoker friendly areas. You can't remove reasonable privately owned access and public sanitation and then say that one should avail themselves to private arias and not be so messy.

 

[Rossmeister]

NYC and other cities have already decided the rules for private property owners. No smoking in bars, restaurants, private businesses and who knows where else. Boston is shutting down cigar bars. As a former smoker, little makes me happier than to be able to go days without breathing it.

The problem is that government isn't interested in helping people quit smoking. It is interested in revenue. Government is interested in its expansion into every nook and cranny of our lives.

I'd rather breath some smoke on occasion than have Bloomberg (and any other jumped up politician) telling us what we can do where.

Who owns and runs the parks though, as per the new law?

Cigar bars shutting down is not my idea of good government. However, they should make sure employees sign clauses and waivers. They should also have smoke-free restrooms which are airconditioned well. If they have or don't have these things, I don't know.

"No smoking in bars, restaurants, private businesses and who knows where else."

Great! I applaud this. Employees, and customers aren't forced to endure smoke. And I don't buy the "they can go somewhere else"-line either.

"Your right to flail your fists stops at my face." I hear people from the US say all the time. For me, it's the same principle with smoking. I don't even care if it proven/not proven that second hand smoking is a health hazard, it's just damn uncomfortable for most people that don't enjoy cigarettes.

Day-to-day, I escape smoking by standing on the side of the smokers where the wind is coming from. In bars and shops and the like, I very often wouldn't have that option before the smoking ban.

You can always sit in a non-smoking area, but a waiter can't simply choose to only wait on the non-smoking tables.

People smoking outside doors of public places bugs the hell out of me. I don't wanna smell your stinking smoke when I have to go inside! Go somewhere else! They've put the ashtrays outside our smoke free student housing directly outside the entrance door. Great when you have your window up to air. Or even just the air duct. Creeps right in. I don't want that filth in my room, and I get it still.

Maybe banning smoking in all of big parks is wrong. Maybe they should designate a less travelled area for smoking? I don't know, but this certainly didn't start with the monetary-lusting government. It started with rubbish and filth and smokers who don't see the consequences of their habit of littering and smoking around other people, scientific effect or not.

However, I definitely think that if the government can apply fines for monetary gains against hard-to-enforce stuff, hell yes they're gonna do it. It's the same way everywhere.

I might sound like I have a chip on my shoulder for smokers, but I also smoke a cigarette from time to time at parties (though rarely), and I can enjoy a cigar if I'm in good company.

EDIT
Also, don't take "smokers" personally. Smokers on here might be as clean as the sun is bright for all I know. But you know what I mean about the littering.

 

[Rossmeister]

This is intended as participation in polite discussion please, take it in that light. (...)

I'm not quite sure as to what or to whom that was directed at?

 

[TonyH]

Who owns and runs the parks though, as per the new law?

Cigar bars shutting down is not my idea of good government. However, they should make sure employees sign clauses and waivers. They should also have smoke-free restrooms which are airconditioned well. If they have or don't have these things, I don't know.

"No smoking in bars, restaurants, private businesses and who knows where else."

Great! I applaud this. Employees, and customers aren't forced to endure smoke. And I don't buy the "they can go somewhere else"-line either.

"Your right to flail your fists stops at my face." I hear people from the US say all the time. For me, it's the same principle with smoking. I don't even care if it proven/not proven that second hand smoking is a health hazard, it's just damn uncomfortable for most people that don't enjoy cigarettes.

Day-to-day, I escape smoking by standing on the side of the smokers where the wind is coming from. In bars and shops and the like, I very often wouldn't have that option before the smoking ban.

You can always sit in a non-smoking area, but a waiter can't simply choose to only wait on the non-smoking tables.

People smoking outside doors of public places bugs the hell out of me. I don't wanna smell your stinking smoke when I have to go inside! Go somewhere else! They've put the ashtrays outside our smoke free student housing directly outside the entrance door. Great when you have your window up to air. Or even just the air duct. Creeps right in. I don't want that filth in my room, and I get it still.

Maybe banning smoking in all of big parks is wrong. Maybe they should designate a less travelled area for smoking? I don't know, but this certainly didn't start with the monetary-lusting government. It started with rubbish and filth and smokers who don't see the consequences of their habit of littering and smoking around other people, scientific effect or not.

However, I definitely think that if the government can apply fines for monetary gains against hard-to-enforce stuff, hell yes they're gonna do it. It's the same way everywhere.

I might sound like I have a chip on my shoulder for smokers, but I also smoke a cigarette from time to time at parties (though rarely), and I can enjoy a cigar if I'm in good company.

I couldn't agree more.

I grew up in a 2x smoking household, smoked cigarettes for years myself, and still enjoy my occasional pipe and cigars. I also find it unconscionable that people refuse to understand how bothersome their smoke is to others. I will NEVER subject any other person to my smoke, should they object. My rights are not to infringe on others health and well being. I dated a girl for about seven years who was extremely asthmatic. One sniff of smoke sent her into an attack, and being in a smokey restaurant/bar put her in the hospital on occasion.

No one's rights extend to harming others.

I am indifferent to smoking outdoors, in parks and the like. In heavily populated areas though, no way.

 

[jazzman]

There is no easier--or cheaper--way for politicians of both parties to appear heroic to the non-smoking majority than to take a stand against smokers.

 

[jwhite]

I'm not quite sure as to what or to whom that was directed at?

Everyone reading it. These threads can become contentious, you're walking right up to that line, but you haven't crossed it. Lets keep it civil. We can all express our points of view.

I don't know about Norway but in my aria there were more nonsmoking establishments than smoking before the bans, by the choice of the proprietors. I worked in the buisness for many years, none of the staff or management I knew was happy about the bans. The idea that this was for the benefit of the staff is just not true. We hated it. The non smoking restaurants didn't like it either, they deliberately built and marketed a buisness to a particular clientele and the bans hurt their buisness model.

 

[professorchaos]

Okay so you and I disagree on the fundamental nature of government and its relationship with the people it governs. My opinion is that this that such laws are an abuse of the power we grant the government.

I'd also say that if this is the sort of dross elected officials pass when cities, municipalities and states face high unemployment, budget deficits and crumbling infrastructure, among other problems, then those elected offices should be part time jobs.

Who owns and runs the parks though, as per the new law?

Cigar bars shutting down is not my idea of good government. However, they should make sure employees sign clauses and waivers. They should also have smoke-free restrooms which are airconditioned well. If they have or don't have these things, I don't know.

"No smoking in bars, restaurants, private businesses and who knows where else."

Great! I applaud this. Employees, and customers aren't forced to endure smoke. And I don't buy the "they can go somewhere else"-line either.

"Your right to flail your fists stops at my face." I hear people from the US say all the time. For me, it's the same principle with smoking. I don't even care if it proven/not proven that second hand smoking is a health hazard, it's just damn uncomfortable for most people that don't enjoy cigarettes.

Day-to-day, I escape smoking by standing on the side of the smokers where the wind is coming from. In bars and shops and the like, I very often wouldn't have that option before the smoking ban.

You can always sit in a non-smoking area, but a waiter can't simply choose to only wait on the non-smoking tables.

People smoking outside doors of public places bugs the hell out of me. I don't wanna smell your stinking smoke when I have to go inside! Go somewhere else! They've put the ashtrays outside our smoke free student housing directly outside the entrance door. Great when you have your window up to air. Or even just the air duct. Creeps right in. I don't want that filth in my room, and I get it still.

Maybe banning smoking in all of big parks is wrong. Maybe they should designate a less travelled area for smoking? I don't know, but this certainly didn't start with the monetary-lusting government. It started with rubbish and filth and smokers who don't see the consequences of their habit of littering and smoking around other people, scientific effect or not.

However, I definitely think that if the government can apply fines for monetary gains against hard-to-enforce stuff, hell yes they're gonna do it. It's the same way everywhere.

I might sound like I have a chip on my shoulder for smokers, but I also smoke a cigarette from time to time at parties (though rarely), and I can enjoy a cigar if I'm in good company.

EDIT
Also, don't take "smokers" personally. Smokers on here might be as clean as the sun is bright for all I know. But you know what I mean about the littering.

 

[Jim]

Just an observation- the NYC parks already have littering laws in effect.

The real issue for me is not that you will be asked to leave the Park, but rather you will be given a ticket that is written on the criminal code- in essence a bench warrent.

 

[TonyH]

Just an observation- the NYC parks already have littering laws in effect.

The real issue for me is not that you will be asked to leave the Park, but rather you will be given a ticket that is written on the criminal code- in essence a bench warrent.

I thought it was stated that it would not be enforced?

 

[Jim]

I thought it was stated that it would not be enforced?

Yes,not by the NYPD, but by park personel.

I looked at parks website and could not locate the new rules, Tom do you have a copy yet?

 

[TonyH]

Yes,not by the NYPD, but by park personel.

I looked at parks website and could not locate the new rules, Tom do you have a copy yet?

Ah yes, I recall now. Thanks!

 

[njpaddy]

I quit smoking 30 years ago but I still think Gov't has gone overboard. Come on, with all the pollution from cars and trucks, how much can a cigarette in an open park hurt? It's almost like Gov't takes this perverse pleasure in bullying smokers, herding them into smaller and smaller reservations. I don't see NYC turning down any tax money on their high and mighty principles.

 

[DFrancis]

While I don't care for the smell of cigarette smoke, I think an outright ban in all parks is a bit much. A ban in and around playground areas would seem more reasonable. Cigarette butts are always an issue but as Jim pointed out, littering is already illegal. As much as I dislike 2nd hand smoke outdoors, that person still has the right to smoke. I don't much care for the smell of McDonald's food, but people have every right to eat it.

 

[luvmysuper]

I'd like to see all tax revenue collected on cigarettes used exclusively for smoking cessation programs.
Put your money where your mouth is. If smoking is such a horrible thing, then do what you can to eliminate it altogether.
That won't happen. While Government shuffles those people who smoke off into smaller and smaller corners, they won't stop counting on the tax revenue from the product or stop all tobacco farm subsidies.

It's easy for Politicians to target the "Sin" products because there is always a large enough "base" to support punitive measures on any given segment of society which participates in using those products.

Each individual group is in full support of punitive measures until the force is turned toward something they like to do. Of course, all the other people then throw in behind that measure. It's similar to a type of class warfare, and that's why it is so successful.

 

[_JP_]

The problem is that government isn't interested in helping people quit smoking. It is interested in revenue. Government is interested in its expansion into every nook and cranny of our

I don't agree with other statement. Not everybody in government is interested in controlling everything. Where I live, the newly elected are trying to remove some of the legislation that was recently passed.

As far as using laws to generate revenue, there are better means for that. Raise the taxes on tobacco, which would be a sure fire way to get money. Going through costs more money than raising money through a sales tax.

 

[DavyRay]

I read that this will include Times Square as well. Think of all those foreign visitors being fined for smoking outside in the Square. This is silly. Fine two old chess players in the park because they are smoking pipes. Silly.

 

[DaveNJ74]

You've obviously never been to Chicago...

NO lol, but do they at least try and fix them? Around here they dont. They put bandaids on them just so they last a few days and then they can come back and refill them again and bill the city over and over again. What a scam.

 

[TonyH]

NO lol, but do they at least try and fix them? Around here they dont. They put bandaids on them just so they last a few days and then they can come back and refill them again and bill the city over and over again. What a scam.

Let's put it this way...

I ended up in Austin by driving into a Chicago pothole.

 

[DunEdinRanger]

. What happened to no taxation without representation?

We got rid of it and found out that Taxation WITH Representation wasn't as big an improvement as we had hoped for.

 

[DaveNJ74]

Let's put it this way...

I ended up in Austin by driving into a Chicago pothole.

wow...I hit a pothole a few years ago on Staten Island that blew the tire out, bent the rim and destroyed the tie-rod ends (or something like that). After a new tire, rim from a junk yard and front end work, the car always rattled after that. Thank god it was stolen last year. You gotta love NY/NJ.