Not sure what kind of hone this is

[rambus007]

Hi everyone. I visited my local flea market today for the first time and I was excited to purchase this hone and wooden box for $12.

I hope I can get some help from you guys. I'm a newbie and am excited about honing my own staight razors. I intend on practising on older razors first before attempting on my good razor (Dovo Special). Here are my questions.

The box has 4 semi-sharp pin on the bottom which I guess are used to hold the box and hone in place while honing. I can see that it has two layers on the hone and there is a clear division between the two layers because it looks as though the two have been glued together. The bottom side seems to be much finer than the top. The top layer (the one used more often) is not even. I seems that the middle has been worn down more than the far ends - I guess it will need to get lapped. The hone is rather grimy. I'm not sure if this is oil mixed with dirt/metal particles.

1. What kind of hone is this?
2. Any idea what the grit levels could be and can it be used to restore a razor that is dull?
3. Shall I clean it before using it? What can I use to clean it - shaving foam perhaps?
4. Do I used water or oil on it or use it dry?

I've attached some photos. Thank you in advance.

Terry

 

[Bertilak]

Hi everyone. I visited my local flea market today for the first time and I was excited to purchase this hone and wooden box for $12.

I hope I can get some help from you guys. I'm a newbie and am excited about honing my own staight razors. I intend on practising on older razors first before attempting on my good razor (Dovo Special). Here are my questions.

The box has 4 semi-sharp pin on the bottom which I guess are used to hold the box and hone in place while honing. I can see that it has two layers on the hone and there is a clear division between the two layers because it looks as though the two have been glued together. The bottom side seems to be much finer than the top. The top layer (the one used more often) is not even. I seems that the middle has been worn down more than the far ends - I guess it will need to get lapped. The hone is rather grimy. I'm not sure if this is oil mixed with dirt/metal particles.

1. What kind of hone is this?
2. Any idea what the grit levels could be and can it be used to restore a razor that is dull?
3. Shall I clean it before using it? What can I use to clean it - shaving foam perhaps?
4. Do I used water or oil on it or use it dry?

I've attached some photos. Thank you in advance.

Terry

Looks a lot like something from my grandfather's machine shop -- something he would use for honing his lathe's chisels. He ran a small boat yard and made or repaired many metal engine parts, pump parts, etc.. Those chisels did not take nearly as fine an edge as a razor -- such an edge could not stand up to the abuse they need to take. If that's what the hone was used for it is probably a relatively coarse hone for a razor.

Does it smell like oil? Looks well used. Might take *days* to lap!

My grandfather's machine shop was great. All his bench tools ran off of giant leather pulley belts that worked their way back to a central engine that powered the whole place. I believe it was a giant electric motor.

 

[Chimensch]

It looks a lot like my Charnley Forest ... even the box. If it is, it's a good finishing hone for razors.

 

[Neil Miller]

I would clean it up first and have a good look at to determine if it is mand-made or natural. Scrubbing with detergent will get a lot of the surface grime and oil of, after which rinsing in hot water and letting soak in a strong mix of bio-detergent washing powder in hot water will help.

It looks a bit too regular to be a charnley - never seen a combo charnley either, but you never know! It could be two synthetics glued together - the top one looks quite soft.

Posting more pics after the clean-up will help a lot.

Regards,
Neil

 

[SliceOfLife]

That's a man made hone. Emery or Carborundum. The line through the center when viewed in profile is a seperation between two different grits. These usually were medium and fine IE 100-400 and 1000-2000 going by mesh grits. Not really a good razor hone. I'd steal the box to throw a escher or similar 7x1.5 - 8x2" hone in and trash the hone (in fact I've done just that a handful of times).

I had an absolutely 100% identical box to that I bought which housed a Washita. I still own that boxes little brother. I keep some slurry stones in it. It had a two sided carborundum in it originally.

Simmering in detergent water (in a pan you don't need) and a LOT of lapping is how I've always cleaned the oilstones I've bought used. Which is why I trash them rather than restoring them now. It is several hours work if you don't have a belt sander and it trashes 5-10$ in belts if you do.

 

[rambus007]

I would clean it up first and have a good look at to determine if it is mand-made or natural. Scrubbing with detergent will get a lot of the surface grime and oil of, after which rinsing in hot water and letting soak in a strong mix of bio-detergent washing powder in hot water will help.

It looks a bit too regular to be a charnley - never seen a combo charnley either, but you never know! It could be two synthetics glued together - the top one looks quite soft.

Posting more pics after the clean-up will help a lot.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks for suggesting that Neil. I've cleaned it off as suggested and posted some new photos here. I had to take them indoors because it's evening now. I used macro zoom without flash.

My kitchen has a low grit sharpener (from China I think) that we use to sharpen our knives. I cleaned this hone followed by about 15-20 mins of rubbing on the coarser side of the kitchen hone in an attempt to clean off this vintage hone and done some evening out of the surface. In the end I think I did get it clean but still is far from being a flat surface. I still wonder if it's possible to try to hone razors on this thing. If not a finishing hone then would you know if it's possible to use this at least in place of a 1000/2000 Norton? The smoother side feels really smooth but I don't know if this is close enough to an 8000 grit. However I have nothing to compare this too because I'm a newbie and haven't felt a Colticule (mine is still being shipped) or a Chinese 12k. I hoping these close-up photos might help reveal the surface for you guys/gals. It's significantly finer then both sides of my kitchen hone. Looking forward to the responses. Thank you.

Terry

 

[Neil Miller]

Gosh Terry, it's still really hard to say! I can't really tell from the pics whether the thinner side is really gritty or really speckly! The joint doesn't look like any I have seen on a man-made stone, but that doesn't rule out someone cobbling-together their own combo stone!

I'd like to think that you could have a combo of glued naturals like some of the scottish hones, but I'm really doubtful.

Hopefully most of the oil is gone now, so you might get an idea from the colour and consistency of the slurry that forms as you lap it.

You can flatten it really quickly using lapidary grit on a thick piece of plate glass, say 120 - 240 - 320 grits, then you will get a honing surface and be in a better position to judge the fineness of the stones by the scratch patterns they leave on steel.

Good luck!

Neil

 

[rambus007]

Gosh Terry, it's still really hard to say! I can't really tell from the pics whether the thinner side is really gritty or really speckly! The joint doesn't look like any I have seen on a man-made stone, but that doesn't rule out someone cobbling-together their own combo stone!

I'd like to think that you could have a combo of glued naturals like some of the scottish hones, but I'm really doubtful.

Hopefully most of the oil is gone now, so you might get an idea from the colour and consistency of the slurry that forms as you lap it.

You can flatten it really quickly using lapidary grit on a thick piece of plate glass, say 120 - 240 - 320 grits, then you will get a honing surface and be in a better position to judge the fineness of the stones by the scratch patterns they leave on steel.

Good luck!

Neil

Thanks Neil. I think I'm going to take it to Lee Valley. I just realized that we have one in Vancouver. Hopefully they'll be able to tell me if it's a proper hone for razors. I'll also pick up some grit paper to lap this as well. I'll update you on my progress. Thanks!

Terry

 

[rambus007]

I brought it to Lee Valley today. The salesperson showed me a few stones so that I could feel the grit and compare to that of my old hone. It felt like a 1000k/8000k. Maybe I should forget the rough side of this hone and use the finer side, then purchase a 1k/4k combo Norton hone. What do you think? I also have a coticule arriving soon in the mail. I hear they are about 8000 grit as well.

Terry

 

[SliceOfLife]

Coticules finish much better than an 8k Norton (or other similarly rated 8k synth) can. I go to one after an 8k synth and if I use straight water it takes a fairly decent amount of time to change the scratch pattern. I actually go to a light slurried coticule from my 8k before I use it with just water. However, coticules work at almost any grit if you tune the level of slurry properly. With a thick slurry they can set a bevel, with water they can finish. And by thinning the slurry, they can do everything in between. This is forum member Bart's website. It explains it pretty well. http://www.coticule.be/

 

[Neil Miller]

Hi Terry - did he say if it was a natural or man-made stone?

Regards,
Neil

 

[rambus007]

Coticules finish much better than an 8k Norton (or other similarly rated 8k synth) can. I go to one after an 8k synth and if I use straight water it takes a fairly decent amount of time to change the scratch pattern. I actually go to a light slurried coticule from my 8k before I use it with just water. However, coticules work at almost any grit if you tune the level of slurry properly. With a thick slurry they can set a bevel, with water they can finish. And by thinning the slurry, they can do everything in between. This is forum member Bart's website. It explains it pretty well. http://www.coticule.be/

Thanks for the input Ian. Yes I am aware of Bart's website. I've actually been reading up on it as well.

 

[rambus007]

Hi Terry - did he say if it was a natural or man-made stone?

Regards,
Neil

Hi Neil. The gentleman said it was an oil stone. Is that man-made or natural? I did some lapping today. I used an old kitchen hone that is probably 200/800 and tried to lap the courser side of my hone. I used water and there was a slurry that came off both sides of this hone. I wonder if I have screwed up this hone by using water to lap. Can anyone tell me if I did please? Thanks.

Terry

 

[Shaman]

Hi Neil. The gentleman said it was an oil stone. Is that man-made or natural? I did some lapping today. I used an old kitchen hone that is probably 200/800 and tried to lap the courser side of my hone. I used water and there was a slurry that came off both sides of this hone. I wonder if I have screwed up this hone by using water to lap. Can anyone tell me if I did please? Thanks.

Terry

You didn't hurt anything lapping with water. You can use water on an oil stone, you just can't use oil on a water stone.

 

[Neil Miller]

Bob is right - you haven't done any harm.

Although you can use oil with naturals (a lot of people use oil with a charnley forest, and the fabled old turkey stones were also known as turkey oilstones, for instance) when people talk about oilstones they usually mean man-made.

It's probably a carpenters stone - rough and fine, for chisels etc. My dad had one in a box like you describe with the sharp tacks in the bottom, so you could just bang it down on the workbench. Not the sort of thing the wife would appreciate on the kitchen table!

Regards,
Neil

 

[rambus007]

It's probably a carpenters stone - rough and fine, for chisels etc. My dad had one in a box like you describe with the sharp tacks in the bottom, so you could just bang it down on the workbench. Not the sort of thing the wife would appreciate on the kitchen table!

Regards,
Neil

If it's a carpenter's stone then would it rip up my razors if I tried to hone on it? The smooth side feels really smooth - like a Norton 8000. I ran my fingers over one yesterday and they both felt similar. I am thinking of taking an older razor to this just to test out what do you think? Also should I use water or shaving lather? I read that it's possible to use lather as well.

 

[Neil Miller]

Trying it with an old razor sounds like a good idea. The coarse side would certainly be an aggressive cutter, but I dont think the smooth side would rip up your razor - at the most it would leave a horrible, coarse scratch pattern on the bevel which you would then have to remove.

Some of those soft oilstones are so soft that they dish in no time at all - going edge first like a carpenter would often gouges the stone.

I'm not too sure that it would be as suitable a proper waterstone, though - but try it and see what you think.

Lather is good - although I only used to use it on a finishing hone in excess of, say, 11,000 grit - it kind of adds a little suction keeping the blade down and also 'cushions' the blade so that you make only very light passes. Use it on lesser grits if you want, but the effect will be diminished.

Regards,
Neil