Non soap based shave stick

[Dav]

Hi everyone,
Apologies if this has been answered before, I have searched but couldn't find anything specifically answering this query. Does anybody know of a non soap based, detergent shave stick ? I know from reading other posts that there is a grey-ish area between what is soap and what isn't, but i gather that the shave gels are regarded as not being soap based. I know this sounds strange but i'm covinced that I have an allergy or intolerance of some kind to ANY thing soap based. Ive tried umpteen soaps; MWF, herbal natural bars, palmolive, Arko, Valobra....they all give me the same problem, a redness and slight roughness to the face, espesially after a few days of continued use. I also tend to get small red spots even though the shaves feel really good. I never get this when i use shave gel. for three months ive used Nivea sensitive gel and my skin is perfect, no redness, no spots and ultra soft and smooth. everytime i shift back to anything with soap in the title....same problems come back within two or three days. Ive even ran an experiment where i used the braun wet/dry 340 shaver for a few months, again, same problems with the soaps..but vanishes within a few days with the Nivea !!
Obviously i could just use the gel but it aint no fun . so, anyone know of a non soap based stick that i can use with a brush ?

 

[mblakele]

Welcome to B&B!

Looking at the ingredients for Nivea sensitive gel, I see http://www.nivea.co.uk/products/mens-care/sensitive/Sensitive-Shaving-Gel:

Aqua, TEA-Palmitate, Oleth-20, Isopentane, Sorbitol, Paraffinum Liquidum, Isobutane, Gossypium, Tocopheryl Acetate, Glycine Soja, Bisabolol, Chamomilla Recutita Flower Extract, PEG-90 Glyceryl Isostearate, Polyisobutene, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, PEG-14 M, Laureth-2, BHT, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, DMDM Hydantoin, Parfum

Soap = saponified fats, or salts of fatty acids if you prefer. The fats can come from animal (tallow) or from vegetable (palm oil) sources. Technically the TEA-Palmitate is a salt of palm oil, so I might call it a soap-based product - but not a traditional one since it uses TEA instead of lye. And soap is not the primary ingredient. Compare with, say, the Palmolive EU stick:

Potassium Hydrogenated Tallowate, Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Cocoate, Aqua, Glycerin, Parfum, Olea Europaea, Elaeis Guineensis, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, BHT, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Citronellol, Coumarin, Hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene, Carboxaldehyde, Limonene, Linalool, CI 11680, CI 12490, CI 74260, CI 77891.

Or MWF:

Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Sterate, Aqua, Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Hydroxycitronellal, Lanolin, Titanium Dioxide, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Silicate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Magnesium Sulphate, Tetrasodium Etidronate.

Getting back to your skin reaction, it seems odd that you react to shaving soaps but not to TEA-Palmitate. Aside from the base used, it ought to be much like sodium palmitate or potassium palmitate, which show up in many shaving soaps. Have you tried a test patch on your inner arm, or lathering up without shaving? That might help you understand the source of the problem.

Assuming you do get the same reaction without actually shaving, have you tried any palmate-first soaps? Edwin Jagger would be one example, and it is a UK brand. If something in the tallowate or stearate compounds irritates your skin, that might help. The form factor is not much of an issue: you can cut a bar in half or thirds, or reshape it into a stick.

If palmate-first soap does not work, you might be able to find a detergent bar that does not irritate your skin, and works well for shaving. In the USA I would automatically suggest Van der Hagen: I have used it as a stick and find it acceptable, although I cannot guarantee that it will work for you. In the UK... you might have to experiment. All three VdH products start with these ingredients:

Propylene Glycol, Sorbitol, Water, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Myristate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate

Note the similarity to your Nivea gel: both have sorbitol, and I believe oleth-20 and propylene glycol do similar jobs in these products. The stearate is a soap component that makes it slick, but as the fourth ingredient it might not be a problem for you. The laureth sulfate makes it lather. You might find VdH from a UK vendor, but it seems like too cheap of a product to export. More likely you will find a UK product that works about as well. Check the ingredients at Boots, etc and also check with any local soap-makers.

 

[Quintar]

If palmate-first soap does not work, you might be able to find a detergent bar that does not irritate your skin, and works well for shaving. In the USA I would automatically suggest Van der Hagen: I have used it as a stick and find it acceptable, although I cannot guarantee that it will work for you. In the UK... you might have to experiment. All three VdH products start with these ingredients:

I was going to say van der haagen as well...it's like $2 and it melts in the microwave so you can melt a puck and make your own stick by pouring it into a mold. it's mostly not soap.
still it's weird that you'd have a problem with soap in general. seems more likely to be some ingredient like a scent or maybe one of the oils used. I saw in a post a while ago someone was allergic to coconut products and coconut oil is used in 99% of soaps...otherwise maybe it's palm oil which is also used in a ton of soaps...