New straight razor and stone suggestions?
- Thread starter JeffMeeks94
- Start date
I'm new to SR shaving and was having the same questions last week.
One thing I would recommend is practice stropping with a dull flatware dinning knife so you don't nick the strop and you can develop the proper technique. When you do nick the strop you'll want to get some very fine or extra fine grit sandpaper to smooth out the nicks.
I ended up with the following set up: (recommended by Jarrod at The Superior Shave)
1) New Dovo razor "Diamant" its more expensive then what was suggested or needed. There are cheaper alternatives. 5/8 rounded, carbon, full hollow. Shave ready
2) 155ri Herold strop
3) Herold linen
4) Herold 57ri paddle
5) Dovo red/black paste to be used on the paddle
That being said I do want to learn how to hone using stones and I've spent a bit of time watching YouTube videos. I've picked up a 12inch piece of granite, 220 and 400 grit non-adhesive sand paper for lapping, 4000/8000 Norton combination stone and a I purchased an Imperia La Roccia (ILR) 12K-15K finishing stone. I picked up a couple cheap Gold Dollar razors to practice honing.
One thing I would recommend is practice stropping with a dull flatware dinning knife so you don't nick the strop and you can develop the proper technique. When you do nick the strop you'll want to get some very fine or extra fine grit sandpaper to smooth out the nicks.
I ended up with the following set up: (recommended by Jarrod at The Superior Shave)
1) New Dovo razor "Diamant" its more expensive then what was suggested or needed. There are cheaper alternatives. 5/8 rounded, carbon, full hollow. Shave ready
2) 155ri Herold strop
3) Herold linen
4) Herold 57ri paddle
5) Dovo red/black paste to be used on the paddle
That being said I do want to learn how to hone using stones and I've spent a bit of time watching YouTube videos. I've picked up a 12inch piece of granite, 220 and 400 grit non-adhesive sand paper for lapping, 4000/8000 Norton combination stone and a I purchased an Imperia La Roccia (ILR) 12K-15K finishing stone. I picked up a couple cheap Gold Dollar razors to practice honing.
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Congratulations
I had problems with the Method initially, because of issues getting the right substrate and good quality fine diamond pastes here in the UK. AJ's Welsh stones were what cracked honing for me. The method might be foolproof but this fool couldn't get it right first time.
Yes I've since got it working and I love it for some of my Razors but if I hadn't tried the Welsh stones I might have given up on honing altogether. I think it's important to offer different options for new straight razor users.
We are all different.
I agree use other options overtime, but have a method to begin. Too many buy stones and then complain the razor does not work. What’s missing is a method.
Perhaps my success came from going through the entire progression and ending on linen and horse hide.
Agreed.
FWIW, my default method these days as to a full progression is a 1k/3k Suehiro synth combo, followed by a coticule bout used mostly with water, followed by an AJ Welsh purple slate used mostly with water, ending with plain leather stropping. This is a method that has consistently worked for me over the past three years, rather than a method stated as an absolute. My method has changed over the years and continues to change. In starting out with razor honing, I was a big fan of Arkansas oil-stones as a dedicated progression, supposedly difficult for beginners; but I found that they introduced wear more slowly than with synths and I could more easily learn from my mistakes in this way. Followed by a red-pasted strop to bring up the edge a notch, such a progression was another viable method rather than a method stated as an absolute.
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This is fantastic!! Good luck and enjoy the adventure. Do report back onto the forum about your progress.
So, imagine a new person trying to figure out " 1k/3k Suehiro synth combo, followed by a coticule bout used mostly with water, followed by an AJ Welsh purple slate used mostly with water, ending with plain leather stropping. "?
This is the reason I suggest a packet of films that contain all the grits needed to hone any razor for $30 plus a $4 marble floor tile. Follow the burr method to start.
Your point is well made but not down to the materials but more down to none of us promoting easy guides to using them.
With a coticule a unicot progression is dead easy to follow. You can find clear instructions on other sites. Here on B&B everyone seems to favour dilucot which is a more advanced method IMO.
The AJ stones are also easy to use. Unfortunately there is some poor information around on using them. I learnt by following guidance on another forum. I haven't come across clear instructions here on B&B.
Yes, I agree...no easy guides except the Burr Method using 3m non-adhesive micron films 30, 12, 9, 3, .3, .5 on a flat piece of marble for $35.
My challenge to the experts is to develop and post a comparable method using stones. I feel it would be welcomed and well received. I know it would better serve us as a whole than slang terms and abbreviations for those trying to learn.
Personally, I don't use any slurries followed by dilutions on my coticule or on the Welsh slate, if only because using plain water is simpler that way. And as I said before, I don't think a beginner should be starting out with a full progression, just a strop and a razor, adding a finishing stone (or pasted strop) to this at best.
As for eBay junkers off the 'Bay, that too is pretty simple for me as to a method:
*For example, if one were to start out with the 8" x 3" green Vermont slate only that I originally recommended as a touch-up stone for starters, that would come to ~$60. To keep costs down--cost not being mentioned from the start--this could be replaced by a 8" x 2.5" purple Welsh slate for ~$28. And if one insisted on a full progression of this kind from the start, then a 185mm x 62mm 1k/3k Suehiro would be ~$37 followed by a 8" x 2.5" dragon's tongue in lieu of a coticule for $26. Again less than $100 for a complete bevel-setting progression, with a 210mm x 70 Beston 500 being thrown in for $46 as needed for visible chips.
As for eBay junkers off the 'Bay, that too is pretty simple for me as to a method:
- Tape the spine and remove small visible chips with a worn, fine DMT using half-laps with descending lap counts (10, 5, 3, 2, 1 or 5, 2, 1, for example), keeping the strokes up and down. No chasing a burr, but rather, a combination of visual observation, naked eye and with an 11x achromatic loupe, and the thumbnail test.
- When the chips are honed out and the blade's edge grabs the thumbnail all along the line, remove the tape and switch to the 1k synth and hone in a similar half-lap way at first to reduce the scratch marks introduced by the diamond hone. When this starts to be reached, switch to X-passes (or rolling Xs as needed), flipping the blade with each pass.
- In viewing with the 11x achromat loupe, once the 1k scratch pattern has become continuously raked (more diagonal) rather than perpendicular, it's time to take one last thumbnail test before switching to the 3k synth. Hone with the 3k using simple X-passes (or rolling Xs as needed) until the bevel has become smoother and shiny.
- Switch to the coticule and hone with water in the same way until the bevel has become hazier and less shiny than it was off the 3k (the 3k serves the office of a slurry on the coticule). This can involve anything from a few dozen laps to several dozen laps, and an occasional half-lap or two thrown into the mix, particularly at the start, also helps in knocking off any kind of burr.
- Switch to the purple slate used with water and a tiny amount of dish-washing soap (to emulsify the solution) or used with thin sewing machine oil. Begin with around three to six laterally-biased, very short X-stroke laps to even out the edge like a steel for kitchen knives. Any imperfection along the edge, if felt at this stage, should give way quickly. (If not, then go back to the coticule.) Then continue with X-passes (or or rolling Xs as needed) for around two dozen laps. (This is just to heighten the coticule edge a little.) As viewed with the 11x achromatic loupe, the bevel should appear a little bit shinier than off the coticule, but not so shiny and uniform as off the 3k synth.
- At this point, if all has gone well, one can strop the blade using a hanging leather strop. Afterwards, the HHT, as consistently applied, should be passing, and one should be able to have a close, smooth shave.
*For example, if one were to start out with the 8" x 3" green Vermont slate only that I originally recommended as a touch-up stone for starters, that would come to ~$60. To keep costs down--cost not being mentioned from the start--this could be replaced by a 8" x 2.5" purple Welsh slate for ~$28. And if one insisted on a full progression of this kind from the start, then a 185mm x 62mm 1k/3k Suehiro would be ~$37 followed by a 8" x 2.5" dragon's tongue in lieu of a coticule for $26. Again less than $100 for a complete bevel-setting progression, with a 210mm x 70 Beston 500 being thrown in for $46 as needed for visible chips.
I agree a beginner should never attempt that process.
I did not say never. I just wanted to oblige you with a complete method with stones as requested. Actually, the first restoration progression I attempted (a junker found in a French flea market), back in 2011 after several weeks of straight-razor shaving with a shave-ready razor, wasn't all that dissimilar, and went surprisingly well: 1k/6k Suehiro synth > coticule bout > ending with stropping on a suede paddle scribbled with Thiers-Issard alox/diamond sharpening paste. I would still recommend that progression, perhaps leaving out the coticule as not really necessary. Ergo, a few up-and-down laps on the 1k, followed by X-strokes; then a few up-and-down laps on the 6k, followed by X-strokes; then a few dozen stropped laps on the T-I pasted paddle. I hope that's simple enough. A Suehiro 1k/6k runs ~$60 and the crayon paste another ~$10.
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It’s simple now, but would not have been last September.
All is well then, I hope.
Its not for me.
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