New Coticule, interesting experiment.

[thanks]

I'm going to copy paste my post from the acquisitions thread, and then talk about my experiment.

I noticed recently that Jarrod over at The Superior Shave has started to list travel sized coticule bouts to use on the go for touching up a razor. I figured this was a perfect alternative to my small Thuringian for touching up my slightly warped blades, and figured I'd pick one up. I snagged a Les Latneuses with quite a thick hybrid side to it.

It's a very tiny bit of stone, being 17-19mm x 109mm, but if everything I've heard about the Les Latneuses vein of coticules is true then it should prove to be a fast stone.

This post was from yesterday. Tonight I was looking at my razors, and noticed my 13/16 Le Grelot. I've been having trouble setting the bevel on this razor using my other Coti bout, and figured it was just a stubborn razor. Anyway my new travel hone is tiny. 17-19mm x 109mm is actually miniscule. I decided, what the heck? Might as well try to use this hone to dilucot my Grelot. I applied a milky slurry, and almost instantly it started turning dark gray after several half strokes. I now have a shave ready Le Grelot. I was so impressed with these results, that I ordered a 125mm x 30mm stone from Ardennes, specifically requesting a Le Petit Blanche, as I've heard these are also fast, and from my understanding usually come as a combo stone. I told them a Les Latneuses would be nice as well.

Anyone else have success with dilucot on tiny stones?

 

[Walker]

Haven't tried the Dilucot method but i have used the Unicot several times on my 4X2 Coti. I have 4 cotis (so far) and the little one is one of my best for honing.

 

[thanks]

Haven't tried the Dilucot method but i have used the Unicot several times on my 4X2 Coti. I have 4 cotis (so far) and the little one is one of my best for honing.

My "larger" Coticule bout is roughly 4x2. I considered that to be a normal size. Hmm, maybe my perceptions are off on what "normal" size is for hones!

 

[Walker]

My "larger" Coticule bout is roughly 4x2. I considered that to be a normal size. Hmm, maybe my perceptions are off on what "normal" size is for hones!

I'm sure you know more than i do about cotis. I always thought the normal size was 6x2? But i'm just a rookie lol

 

[thanks]

I'm sure you know more than i do about cotis. I always thought the normal size was 6x2? But i'm just a rookie lol

Believe me, I am only just truly beginning on my Coticule journey. I guess you are right though, 6x2 does seem to be the normal standard size.

So you find it easier to hone on the smaller Coti? I wonder if this is a more common opinion than I initially thought.

 

[Chimensch]

My "larger" Coticule bout is roughly 4x2. I considered that to be a normal size. Hmm, maybe my perceptions are off on what "normal" size is for hones!

I'm sure you know more than i do about cotis. I always thought the normal size was 6x2? But i'm just a rookie lol

Why don't we just compromise and say 5x2?

Kidding aside, I think that 5-6 x 2 is the ideal size for razors.

 

[thanks]

Why don't we just compromise and say 5x2?

Kidding aside, I think that 5-6 x 2 is the ideal size for razors.

Looking at it, my comment came off as sarcastic when really it was sincere.

Have you had any success with small hones? I guess I'm just surprised a full dilucot worked so well on such a small piece of real estate. I figured it'd be good for finishing laps on my warped blades, and not many laps at that. I didn't expect it to be comfortable, let alone as comfortable as I found it with slurry.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Why don't we just compromise and say 5x2?

Kidding aside, I think that 5-6 x 2 is the ideal size for razors.

If it's a NOS razor with no bend or smile, I like 8x3". For 99% of razors out there though, I say that length up to 8 or 9" is always a plus. And it's hard to go too narrow. I LOVE my 8x1" vintage coti. If I had to pick a favorite width, I gotta say that Escher had it right. 1.5" Narrow enough that it's a rare smile that is a pain to angle, and wide enough that you can afford a little slop without running the edge of the blade into the edge of the hone. 10x1.5" Coti and Thuri combo stone and I'd be a happy camper.

 

[Walker]

Believe me, I am only just truly beginning on my Coticule journey. I guess you are right though, 6x2 does seem to be the normal standard size.

So you find it easier to hone on the smaller Coti? I wonder if this is a more common opinion than I initially thought.

I guess i should have clarified that statement a bit. What i meant was is seems to be my best for slurry out of the 4. It's not the easiest since i am just learning i find a longer stone easier to use. I have a 6x2 select from SRD and it is a bugger to raise a slurry on. Now my 6x2 combo from another website (the name escapes me at the moment) raises a nice slurry but not as good as the 4x2. I just nabbed a 7x 1.5 from Fleabay and i have been playing with that a bit tonight it seems a little softer than the SRD stone but the 4x2 is like butter when i hit it with the slurry stone. I like a bigger stone but as i said, the 4x2 is a great stone. I'm interested in the thread going on right now In this forum about starting with the Yellow, flipping the stone to the BBW side and finishing with just water on the yellow. I may try that next.

 

[natchez]

Interesting thread and thanks; I have been trying to find the easiest way to hone some blades that are not entirely flat. Seems a number of the older hand ground ones are less than perfectly flat and have been presenting more of a challenge than I would prefer

I recently acquired a great old William Rogers "I Cut My Way" blade. I have been able to get about 80% of the smiling blade acceptably sharp, with the heel and the toe giving me grief. I tried using just the narrow end of an irregular coticule bout in the last few minutes and I can see where you are coming from with the success you have reported. I will give it more of a go in the morning.

Here are the bouts I have- a size 8 (more yellow) and a size 10. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[thanks]

I guess i should have clarified that statement a bit. What i meant was is seems to be my best for slurry out of the 4. It's not the easiest since i am just learning i find a longer stone easier to use. I have a 6x2 select from SRD and it is a bugger to raise a slurry on. Now my 6x2 combo from another website (the name escapes me at the moment) raises a nice slurry but not as good as the 4x2. I just nabbed a 7x 1.5 from Fleabay and i have been playing with that a bit tonight it seems a little softer than the SRD stone but the 4x2 is like butter when i hit it with the slurry stone. I like a bigger stone but as i said, the 4x2 is a great stone. I'm interested in the thread going on right now In this forum about starting with the Yellow, flipping the stone to the BBW side and finishing with just water on the yellow. I may try that next.

I understand what you mean. Be careful your slurry isn't too thick when starting, however. If it's closer to mud than milk, it is most likely too thick.

Interesting thread and thanks; I have been trying to find the easiest way to hone some blades that are not entirely flat. Seems a number of the older hand ground ones are less than perfectly flat and have been presenting more of a challenge than I would prefer

I recently acquired a great old William Rogers "I Cut My Way" blade. I have been able to get about 80% of the smiling blade acceptably sharp, with the heel and the toe giving me grief. I tried using just the narrow end of an irregular coticule bout in the last few minutes and I can see where you are coming from with the success you have reported. I will give it more of a go in the morning.

Here are the bouts I have- a size 8 (more yellow) and a size 10. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thin hones are a cheaters way to hone warped blades! I have heard that usually older blades were set with a smiling bevel as a way around the warping of the blade due to the imprecise methods of the time. A smiling edge will require a different kind of swaying x-stroke, and a seriously smiling blade will require a rolling x-stroke; both of which are difficult to do correctly, although the swaying x-stroke is admittedly much much easier. http://www.coticule.be/strokes.html

From my very limited honing (in)experience, I'd recommend taking a marker to the entire edge of your razor. This will make sure that you are contacting the trouble areas. Try the swaying x-stroke, and see if that helps to make full contact with the edge to the hone.

By the way Richard, that is a lovely looking reddish bout!

 

[Walker]

I am still learning the whole process. Sometimes i can do well with the slurry, other times it dries out on me to quickly. I hone in some unusaual locations at work so it is taking me some time to learn little tricks. It can be fun.... But usually it's frustrating. I love shaving with a blade i've honed though. Gives me a sense of accomplishment.

 

[Woodash]

You're saying that this is a hybrid over a BBW? I can't quite tell from the pics.

 

[thanks]

You're saying that this is a hybrid over a BBW? I can't quite tell from the pics.

Yes it's a hybrid side, and not a BBW. Although, I didn't use the hybrid side at all when honing. I ran a Gold Dollar razor over it first to test it as it has a thick black line, and I wasn't sure if it would affect the blade. Sure enough it does, so I unfortunately won't be able to use the full length of that side.

 

[Chimensch]

Have you had any success with small hones?

When I started shaving with a straight in 1980, I maintained my razor with a barbers hone, holding it in my hand. When I got my first 8 x 3 hone a couple of years ago, it was very frustrating because I couldn't comfortably hold it in my hand and you get less feedback, and have less control, with a hone sitting on a surface. I put up with wide hones until I got my 7-day set and found that I couldn't get a good edge on 2 of them. On the assumption that they were slightly warped (they weren't, the Le Grelots have a slight smile), I tried a narrow hone and solved my problem. After that I took my Norton and 6 x 3 Honyama Awaseto to a marble cutter and had them cut in half (8 x 1½ and 6 x 1&#189. With those and my 5 x 1 BBW/coticule combo, I've been extremely happy.

Thin hones are a cheaters way to hone warped blades!

True enough. I guess I'll never qualify for a Boy Scout honing badge! All I really care about is a good shave.

I'm really interested in reading about how different people hone and I'm somewhat intimidated by the fact that, nowadays, when people talk about their coticules, they are able to say what vein they came from. Also, the dilucot and unicot methods are too complicated for me (that's the lazy cheater in me) so when I touch up my razors I decided to take the easy route: BBW with slurry for sharpness, coticule with water and a drop of soap for smoothness and the Awaseto Honyama with water and a drop of soap for a little more sharpness. It's a reliable, uncomplicated method that gives me the results I want.

In regard to smiling razors, I don't think it was to mask production problems but rather to make it a little easier to do a sliding stroke. In fact, old barber manuals describe how to deliberately put a smile in a razor.

 

[wdwrx]

I was messing around with a giant meat-chopper, yesterday, and took it to my 8x3" Nani which I haven't been using at all lately, and compared to my 7x1.5" cotis, it felt like a monster! Way too huge. Of course, I started out with the big hones as that seemed to be the popular choice, but now that I've gotten used to using a narrower hone, I can't imaging going back to those giant bench stones. It seems like over-kill now.
And I've fuond that even on my narrow hones, I only use the edges of it. Kinda hard to explain, because I am using the whole thing, but focusing most of my honig effort on the outside third. I've started to think that a little 1" hone might be the way to go. And they can be had for quite a bit less money than the wider stones.

Every single one of my razors has something about the geometry that is just a tiny bit off, wether it's a heel that seems to have a bit of warp or a toe that points a different way, or in the best case, just a nice little smile, and I seem find that only a fraction of the bevel is in contact with the stone at any given time anyways. Kinda makes such a wide hone seem a bit redundant.

I given a bit of thought to modifying some of my stones to be honest. I've thought about cutting a big 45 deg chamfer into the edge of one, to provide a narrow section so I can have the best of both world. (Like a slip stone )Just a thought, mind you, I'm not quite so cavalier yet that I will cut up my cotis.
Ha! I do have a People's Hone I never use..... cheap, and very homogenous... hhhhmmmm.

edit: on second thought... it looks like it's trying to de-laminate between sedimentary layers... and it does have some lapped narow edges that would do in a pinch.

 

[life2short1971]

I have a couple of the Les Lats and they have a buttery feel when shaving off the hybrid side. When your finishing run under water with the hybrid side or at least refresh every few strokes for the best finish. It takes a little longer with Le Grelots because they are pretty hard.

 

[wdwrx]

You guys and these Les Latneuses'... I'm just dying....

 

[BladeRunner001]

Great post...I do have a La Blanche. It is ~6"x1.5". Great size. I am still trying to get used to it. I found it to be a medium-fast stone, but I prefer my Veinette for the final edge. La Petite Blanche just doesn't cut it for me but it is a great bevel setter/refresher. Having said that, I am sure that as my technique with this stone improves, my edges will as well.

 

[richmondesi]

You guys and these Les Latneuses'... I'm just dying....

Chris,

Don't do it. They are not magical stones. Whatever you have is just fine (I can't remember ). I still reach for my La Petite Blanche more than anything else. In fact, I had a guy send me a razor from Lithuania that came in the mail, and I honed it on my small bout LPB.

Regards,

Paul