Thanks for sharing that! That was some really good advice in there. I love the wording too!
Need help identifying which blades go with this 1903 Double Ring set. Thanks!
- Thread starter HDSledge
- Start date
Chicago Sales agency assigned by Gillette 1903, Gillette bought them out in 1908.
- Thread starter
- #23
Hey Romsitsa I found the link to the old ad. It is in this thread lol. Up to my eyeballs in Gillette history, overload.
Convinced that you are right about the October date on the set. I don't think it could have been made later though. The July? 1903 ad from Townsend and Hunt states 20 blades and the second ad 4? months later in November from Gillette Sales Co. states 12 blades will be included. The booklet, razor, and box underwent considerable refinements/modifications after this set was made but before November 1903. By November Gillette Sales Co. was advertising and selling 12 blade sets with new booklets and different printing on the box. By 1904 serial numbers were being added starting with #1 and all had a serial number and either Pat Apl'd For, or Pat Nov 15, 1904 after the issue date. The narrow window in 1903 for this set fits.
Romsitsa, you have been very helpful and a wealth of knowledge. How about one more time? You mentioned blade notches in 1903 for "heat lots". Any pics or info on what that means exactly?
Convinced that you are right about the October date on the set. I don't think it could have been made later though. The July? 1903 ad from Townsend and Hunt states 20 blades and the second ad 4? months later in November from Gillette Sales Co. states 12 blades will be included. The booklet, razor, and box underwent considerable refinements/modifications after this set was made but before November 1903. By November Gillette Sales Co. was advertising and selling 12 blade sets with new booklets and different printing on the box. By 1904 serial numbers were being added starting with #1 and all had a serial number and either Pat Apl'd For, or Pat Nov 15, 1904 after the issue date. The narrow window in 1903 for this set fits.
Romsitsa, you have been very helpful and a wealth of knowledge. How about one more time? You mentioned blade notches in 1903 for "heat lots". Any pics or info on what that means exactly?
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks Alex.
- Thread starter
- #25
Found this: The Gillette blade .. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive Interesting facts straight from King Gillette himself, plus many others.
In publication number 5 on page 7 it describes the marketing plan to give the exclusive marketing rights to "2 young men, Townsend and Hunt" who opened offices in Chicago under the name Gillette Sales Company. The transition from Townsend and Hunt to Gillette Sales Company was very short, perhaps days. The initial ad under the name Townsend and Hunt was probably the first and only marketing ad while the other company was being legally created and set up a block or so away from Townsend and Hunt's current office in Chicago.
In publication number 5 on page 7 it describes the marketing plan to give the exclusive marketing rights to "2 young men, Townsend and Hunt" who opened offices in Chicago under the name Gillette Sales Company. The transition from Townsend and Hunt to Gillette Sales Company was very short, perhaps days. The initial ad under the name Townsend and Hunt was probably the first and only marketing ad while the other company was being legally created and set up a block or so away from Townsend and Hunt's current office in Chicago.
You getting pretty good on this researching, I'm just enjoying your progress...
- Thread starter
- #27
I think I may be addicted to the hunt for knowledge, especially when I hold something in my hand that can connect me to the past. And I can shave with it!!! Awesome.
The Krumholz book page 24 shows a Townsend & Hunt Ad from Oct 1903 (poor picture)
R
romsitsa
Gents, I have a theory, stay tuned 
.
Adam
.Adam
R
romsitsa
Hello All,
it will be a long shot.
After reading through the Galileo citation, I have to say it’s plain wrong, but it helped to construct a timeline for the early years.
https://www.badgerandblade.com/foru...t-galileo-book-result-on-gillette-jpg.807754/
26th Sept. 1901.-American Safety Razor Co. incorporated (Nickerson, Gillette Blade December 1918.)
15th July 1902.- Company renamed to Gillette Safety Razor Company (Nickerson, Gillette Blade December 1918.)
Summer? 1902.- Nickerson agreed with New York based investors to fund 150 000 USD in exchange for 51% of the Gillette shares, BUT this was declined by the board of directors. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade December 1918.)
29th April 1903.- Board decides that a pack of blades should consist of 20 blades and 20 blades should be shipped with a razor (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
9th May 1903.-Board decides that a razor with 20 blades should have a retail price 3 USD, while a pack of 20 blades 1 USD (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
May-July 1903.- Joyce proposes to fix the price of the razor and 20 blades to 5 USD, board accepts. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
2nd July 1903.- agreement with Townsend and Hunt. They become the sole US sales agents for Gillette Safety Razor Co. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
October 1903. – first known advertisement of Gillette in System magazine
Agents are Townsend and Hunt located in 1602 Marquette Building Chicago
They are looking for further agents.
Gold plated model is mentioned as to be made.
Razors have 20 blades.
Here is the text part:
Advertising Today and Tomorrow
And the whole ad, notice the case...
http://www.geocities.ws/safetyrazors/gillcent/GSR1Ad.jpg
November 1903.- Advertisement in System magazine
Gillette Sales Company located in 1602-3 Manhattan Building Chicago
It lists 12 double edge blades, BUT also says one should send back 10 blades to be resharpened.
I think 12 blades is a typo and it should have been 20. (by me)
http://books.google.com/books?id=IKjNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA359&img=1&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3mT1t1nRxrf--5dIMMdcMYFK5ryg&ci=485,95,422,1300&edge=0&zoom=3
1st January 1904.- first recorded batch of 50 razor shipped from the factory (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
January 1904.- Blades repriced as 12 for 1 USD, razors are shipped with 20 blades (Krummholz pg. 321)
9th January 1904.- K.C. Gillette resigned as president and left for England. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
January 1904.- Advertisement in The Magazine of Business
Gillette Sales Company located in 1201 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 20 blades.
20 used blades will be resharpened for 50 Cents.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=coo.31924106098654;seq=628;width=850
1904.- Unknown advertisement, Gillette Sales Company located in 1201 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 20 blades.
20 used blades will be resharpened for 50 Cents.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904 Gillette Safety Razor.jpg
18th March 1904.- Directors meeting. It was found that the labour price of 1 blade was 5 Cents. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
That would mean that selling 20 blades for 1 USD would be unprofitable. (by me)
May 1904.- Advertisement in System magazine
Gillette Sales Company located in 1208 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 20 blades.
20 used blades will be resharpened for 50 Cents.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=coo.31924106098654;seq=824;width=850
June? 1904.- Unknown advertisement, Gillette Sales Company located in 1602 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 12 blades.
12 used blades will be changed for 6 new blades for free
12 new blades cost 1 USD.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904-06 Double Ring.jpg
June 1904.-Advertisement in System magazine
Gillette Sales Company located in 1208 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 12 blades.
12 used blades will be changed for 6 new blades for free
26.481 users since 1st January 1904.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015010779513;seq=582;width=850
January-July 1904. Nickerson lists shipments for the first half of 1904. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
January: 1276
February: 1255
March: 1595
April: 2920
May:3300
June: 6256
This sums up to 13.632 razors produced. Compared to the above advertisement from June, roughly 13.000 razors are missing from the first half of 1904.
Skip in time...
June 1905.- Advertisement in System Magazine
168.141 users to January 1905.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015010779380;seq=748;width=850
I used the Krummholz book, Nickersons memoirs from The Gillette Blade and various advertisements found on Achims site and on other online sources.
Some thoughts:
In 1903. razors and blade packs contained 20 blades.
Between January and May 1904. razors contained 20 blades, but new packs were most probably reduced to 12 blades.
From June 1904. both razors and blade packs came with 12 blades.
If we accept that there were 26.481 users in June 1904. then either Nickersons numbers were off, or Gillette Sales Co. boosted numbers, or there was a production batch of almost 13.000 razors in 1903.
If the 1904 and 1905 adverts are correct, and there were 168.141 users to January 1905. and 26.481 users since 1st January 1904 (May or June 1904), this would mean 141.660 razors produced between June-December 1904.
We know/think that the Pat. Nov. stamping appeared on razors in November 1904., after the patent was granted.
The lowest known serial number with a Pat. Nov. stamp is 21964. The highest serial in 1904 should be 45424, according to all sources.
This would mean roughly 23.460 (45425-21964) razors produced during November-December 1904.
141.660-23460=118.200 razors were produced from June till November?
Adam
it will be a long shot.
After reading through the Galileo citation, I have to say it’s plain wrong, but it helped to construct a timeline for the early years.
https://www.badgerandblade.com/foru...t-galileo-book-result-on-gillette-jpg.807754/
26th Sept. 1901.-American Safety Razor Co. incorporated (Nickerson, Gillette Blade December 1918.)
15th July 1902.- Company renamed to Gillette Safety Razor Company (Nickerson, Gillette Blade December 1918.)
Summer? 1902.- Nickerson agreed with New York based investors to fund 150 000 USD in exchange for 51% of the Gillette shares, BUT this was declined by the board of directors. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade December 1918.)
29th April 1903.- Board decides that a pack of blades should consist of 20 blades and 20 blades should be shipped with a razor (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
9th May 1903.-Board decides that a razor with 20 blades should have a retail price 3 USD, while a pack of 20 blades 1 USD (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
May-July 1903.- Joyce proposes to fix the price of the razor and 20 blades to 5 USD, board accepts. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
2nd July 1903.- agreement with Townsend and Hunt. They become the sole US sales agents for Gillette Safety Razor Co. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
October 1903. – first known advertisement of Gillette in System magazine
Agents are Townsend and Hunt located in 1602 Marquette Building Chicago
They are looking for further agents.
Gold plated model is mentioned as to be made.
Razors have 20 blades.
Here is the text part:
Advertising Today and Tomorrow
And the whole ad, notice the case...
http://www.geocities.ws/safetyrazors/gillcent/GSR1Ad.jpg
November 1903.- Advertisement in System magazine
Gillette Sales Company located in 1602-3 Manhattan Building Chicago
It lists 12 double edge blades, BUT also says one should send back 10 blades to be resharpened.
I think 12 blades is a typo and it should have been 20. (by me)
http://books.google.com/books?id=IKjNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA359&img=1&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3mT1t1nRxrf--5dIMMdcMYFK5ryg&ci=485,95,422,1300&edge=0&zoom=3
1st January 1904.- first recorded batch of 50 razor shipped from the factory (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
January 1904.- Blades repriced as 12 for 1 USD, razors are shipped with 20 blades (Krummholz pg. 321)
9th January 1904.- K.C. Gillette resigned as president and left for England. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
January 1904.- Advertisement in The Magazine of Business
Gillette Sales Company located in 1201 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 20 blades.
20 used blades will be resharpened for 50 Cents.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=coo.31924106098654;seq=628;width=850
1904.- Unknown advertisement, Gillette Sales Company located in 1201 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 20 blades.
20 used blades will be resharpened for 50 Cents.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904 Gillette Safety Razor.jpg
18th March 1904.- Directors meeting. It was found that the labour price of 1 blade was 5 Cents. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
That would mean that selling 20 blades for 1 USD would be unprofitable. (by me)
May 1904.- Advertisement in System magazine
Gillette Sales Company located in 1208 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 20 blades.
20 used blades will be resharpened for 50 Cents.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=coo.31924106098654;seq=824;width=850
June? 1904.- Unknown advertisement, Gillette Sales Company located in 1602 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 12 blades.
12 used blades will be changed for 6 new blades for free
12 new blades cost 1 USD.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904-06 Double Ring.jpg
June 1904.-Advertisement in System magazine
Gillette Sales Company located in 1208 Manhattan Building Chicago.
Razor comes with 12 blades.
12 used blades will be changed for 6 new blades for free
26.481 users since 1st January 1904.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015010779513;seq=582;width=850
January-July 1904. Nickerson lists shipments for the first half of 1904. (Nickerson, Gillette Blade January 1919.)
January: 1276
February: 1255
March: 1595
April: 2920
May:3300
June: 6256
This sums up to 13.632 razors produced. Compared to the above advertisement from June, roughly 13.000 razors are missing from the first half of 1904.
Skip in time...
June 1905.- Advertisement in System Magazine
168.141 users to January 1905.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015010779380;seq=748;width=850
I used the Krummholz book, Nickersons memoirs from The Gillette Blade and various advertisements found on Achims site and on other online sources.
Some thoughts:
In 1903. razors and blade packs contained 20 blades.
Between January and May 1904. razors contained 20 blades, but new packs were most probably reduced to 12 blades.
From June 1904. both razors and blade packs came with 12 blades.
If we accept that there were 26.481 users in June 1904. then either Nickersons numbers were off, or Gillette Sales Co. boosted numbers, or there was a production batch of almost 13.000 razors in 1903.
If the 1904 and 1905 adverts are correct, and there were 168.141 users to January 1905. and 26.481 users since 1st January 1904 (May or June 1904), this would mean 141.660 razors produced between June-December 1904.
We know/think that the Pat. Nov. stamping appeared on razors in November 1904., after the patent was granted.
The lowest known serial number with a Pat. Nov. stamp is 21964. The highest serial in 1904 should be 45424, according to all sources.
This would mean roughly 23.460 (45425-21964) razors produced during November-December 1904.
141.660-23460=118.200 razors were produced from June till November?
Adam
R
romsitsa
Part II., what blade to look for?
Something like this, but it should have small notches on the curved sides:
The notches:
Reasoning
This is list floating around the internet about early Gillette blade markings:
1903: Blades notched for "heat lots".
1904: "Gillette Blade" around center hole. Year/ month/ day/ lot serial #'s
1905: "Gillette Safety Razor Company" twined around all 3 holes.
The above list is partially wrong/missleading imho.
Sledges case is from 1903. or early 1904. as it states 20 blades came with the razor, luckily both the case and the booklet has a picture of the blade.
The blade on the case and also in the booklet has "Gillette Safety Razor Company" twined around all 3 holes.
Also it has "trade mark" above the "Gillette Safety Razor Company"
Blades from 1904. adverts show "No stroping" "No honing" stamped onto the other side of the blade with Gillette blade around the center hole.
For eg.:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904-06 Double Ring.jpg
The first serial coded blade can be found in this advert from July 1905, it reads 4/10/14/24, standing for 14th October 1904, lot 24.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1905-07 Double Ring.jpg
Adam
Something like this, but it should have small notches on the curved sides:
The notches:
Reasoning
This is list floating around the internet about early Gillette blade markings:
1903: Blades notched for "heat lots".
1904: "Gillette Blade" around center hole. Year/ month/ day/ lot serial #'s
1905: "Gillette Safety Razor Company" twined around all 3 holes.
The above list is partially wrong/missleading imho.
Sledges case is from 1903. or early 1904. as it states 20 blades came with the razor, luckily both the case and the booklet has a picture of the blade.
The blade on the case and also in the booklet has "Gillette Safety Razor Company" twined around all 3 holes.
Also it has "trade mark" above the "Gillette Safety Razor Company"
Blades from 1904. adverts show "No stroping" "No honing" stamped onto the other side of the blade with Gillette blade around the center hole.
For eg.:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904-06 Double Ring.jpg
The first serial coded blade can be found in this advert from July 1905, it reads 4/10/14/24, standing for 14th October 1904, lot 24.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1905-07 Double Ring.jpg
Adam
- Thread starter
- #32
Great info Adam! In the last 2 pics Patented is stamped on the envelope. Did Gillette decide he wasn't going to wait for the patent to be issued? There wasn't an earlier patent on the blade was there?
Now I want to see a gold Double Ring!!! Anyone?
Now I want to see a gold Double Ring!!! Anyone?
Last edited:
R
romsitsa
Thanks Sledge.
The envelope is a bit weak chain, as to my knowledge the patent was granted in November 1904.
The easy solution is that Gillette stamped "Patented" on razor envelopes before this date.
Another solution is that Gillette used "Patented" on the envelopes only after November 1904.
Is it possible that the set of blades Krummholz examined were mixed in with an earlier inspectors ticket from April 1904?
The "double ring questions" thread has some further interesting info on early blades.
Gillette double ring questions
If you compare the blade pictured on your box with these examples:
It turns out that the "trade mark" blade without "Pat. Nov." had a blank and also a "patented" envelope.
Without knowing what blade is inside these envelopes, I have no further clue.
Adam
The envelope is a bit weak chain, as to my knowledge the patent was granted in November 1904.
The easy solution is that Gillette stamped "Patented" on razor envelopes before this date.
Another solution is that Gillette used "Patented" on the envelopes only after November 1904.
Is it possible that the set of blades Krummholz examined were mixed in with an earlier inspectors ticket from April 1904?
The "double ring questions" thread has some further interesting info on early blades.
Gillette double ring questions
If you compare the blade pictured on your box with these examples:
It turns out that the "trade mark" blade without "Pat. Nov." had a blank and also a "patented" envelope.
Without knowing what blade is inside these envelopes, I have no further clue.
Adam
- Thread starter
- #34
I think without seeing further information any of the above could be the case, with Gillette using Patented before issuance the least likely. Doesn't seem reasonable that the Sales Co. or Gillette Board of Directors would take the risk on a premature claim of Patent protection. If it was applied for they could have used the Pat Apl'd For or Pat Pending. I'm leaning toward a mixup of the inspector ticket and those pictured with Patented on them were made after patent issuance. They couldn't have made them early since there is no warning from the USPTO that your application is due to be approved.
The blank white envelope has really piqued my curiosity. Seems the more we learn the more we find that we don't know. So the blade pics on the wrappers top row depict the blades and the envelopes below are the opposite sides right? Really curious now about the blank white one and the opposite side of the blade.
ps. Can't zoom in very much but it looks like the right 2 blades are outside sitting on blank white envelope tops, and the ones on the left are depictions on the outside of the envelope. Do you see what I see? Are they all printed on the tops?
Last edited:
R
romsitsa
Yes. Top row shows the "face" of the envelop the lower row the back of the envelops. So the pics in the same columns are of the same wrap. The other side of the blade has to have Gillette blade around the center hole with "no stroping no honing" around the curves.
With Gillette, never say never.
The lithographed cases also have "patented" on them and these should have been produced earlier then November 1904.
Adam
With Gillette, never say never.
The lithographed cases also have "patented" on them and these should have been produced earlier then November 1904.
Adam
R
romsitsa
I can't edit the "timeline", a little addition, Achims ad is from March 1904.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904 Gillette Safety Razor.jpg
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.096597126;seq=443;width=680
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.096597126;seq=609;width=680
Adam
http://www.mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1904 Gillette Safety Razor.jpg
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.096597126;seq=443;width=680
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.096597126;seq=609;width=680
Adam
Great researching Adam, I'm busy with several business ventures or I would do some researching myself, something I love to do here.
I'm thinking moving this thread to the Razor blades forum may be more beneficial, many more members in the blades knowledge area can input their insight too.That's probably going to be what they look like. I should have looked at the Mr. Razor site first. Doh. I'm so used to breezing by the main menu straight to razors I forgot a blade page was even there.
Still have to find out how they were wrapped. I assume they were individually wrapped and inserted into the blade cases but I could be totally wrong.
Safety Razor Blades
- Thread starter
- #39
That sounds like a good idea Alex. I welcome your research and input when you get a break from the biz.
I'm certain my search for one of these will be very long and I may not ever find one to go with the set. Won't give up though.
Strange how such a small item has huge significance in the history of a company. Notable is that most folks don't realize that "razors" are only "handles". To them the blade is an accessory to the main product when the opposite is true. Only came to understand that myself from recent exchanges on the history of Gillette related to the blades.
- Thread starter
- #40
While we are at it I am not certain that the blade boxes in my set are the correct type even though the other set to Mr. Ames discussed here 5 years ago also has the same ornamental design boxes. Ads from the period and on Achim's site show that particular ornamental design was used in 1905. It could be that considering the rough nature of set including the plain font on the ribbon that the preliminary boxes were marked with plain text SHARP and DULL.
Opinions? Any other publication illustrations of the pre-1905 leather wrapped sets showing the blade boxes?
ps. reading back through the thread changed my mind about moving it to Blades. Too much good stuff in here about the big picture.
Opinions? Any other publication illustrations of the pre-1905 leather wrapped sets showing the blade boxes?
ps. reading back through the thread changed my mind about moving it to Blades. Too much good stuff in here about the big picture.
