1903 Double Ring, one of the first, a bit unrefined, no serial, PAT APL'D FOR. It was personalized and sent to G.E. Ames, a prominent businessman who played a big part in the development of Portland Oregon. If anyone can provide pics or info on exactly which blades would have come with the set I'll be a happy camper. Thanks!
Need help identifying which blades go with this 1903 Double Ring set. Thanks!
- Thread starter HDSledge
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #3
No idea but could be. Looking for pics or other id info on how they were marked and packaged the first year. Hopefully I can find at least one in better condition. A wrapped, unused one may be tough.
- Thread starter
- #4
That's probably going to be what they look like. I should have looked at the Mr. Razor site first. Doh. I'm so used to breezing by the main menu straight to razors I forgot a blade page was even there.
Still have to find out how they were wrapped. I assume they were individually wrapped and inserted into the blade cases but I could be totally wrong.
R
romsitsa
Hello,
didn't want to further off topic the acquisitions thread, so I'll continue here.
The very first blades had notches for "heat lots" couldn't figure out what this could mean. The month/day/lot stamped blades are dated to 1904.
The wrapper is also a mistery, but we know that blades from 1904-05 came in black/white wrappers, so my guess is that blades from 1903 also had this kind of packaging.
It looks like Gillette switched from 20 blades to 12 blades in 1903, then switched back to 20 blades around 1903 or 1904, just to settle with 12 blades during the same year.
The first known Gillette advertisement is dated October 1903. (System Magazine) and lists the agent as Townsend and Hunt, Marquette Building Chicago.
Advertising Today and Tomorrow
The next advertisement from November 1903. (System Magazine) lists the agent as Gillette Sales Company, Manhattan Building Chicago. This is also the first ad listing twelve blades.
Gillette Company History Geek Out
The ads. on Achims site list sets coming with 12 blades from June 1904.
Werbung mr-razor
So if the dates of the ads. are correct, your set (or at least the case) should have been produced between November 1903.-June 1904., imho.
Adam
didn't want to further off topic the acquisitions thread, so I'll continue here.
The very first blades had notches for "heat lots" couldn't figure out what this could mean. The month/day/lot stamped blades are dated to 1904.
The wrapper is also a mistery, but we know that blades from 1904-05 came in black/white wrappers, so my guess is that blades from 1903 also had this kind of packaging.
It looks like Gillette switched from 20 blades to 12 blades in 1903, then switched back to 20 blades around 1903 or 1904, just to settle with 12 blades during the same year.
The first known Gillette advertisement is dated October 1903. (System Magazine) and lists the agent as Townsend and Hunt, Marquette Building Chicago.
Advertising Today and Tomorrow
The next advertisement from November 1903. (System Magazine) lists the agent as Gillette Sales Company, Manhattan Building Chicago. This is also the first ad listing twelve blades.
Gillette Company History Geek Out
The ads. on Achims site list sets coming with 12 blades from June 1904.
Werbung mr-razor
So if the dates of the ads. are correct, your set (or at least the case) should have been produced between November 1903.-June 1904., imho.
Adam
R
romsitsa
This forum never stops to amaze me. This is the closest to 1903 blades, I could find.
Gillette double ring questions
Ps.: Could you please post a pic. of the underside of the case?
Adam
Gillette double ring questions
Ps.: Could you please post a pic. of the underside of the case?
Adam
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R
romsitsa
Last one, sorry. Another clue could be in the booklet, did Gillette offer
6 blades for free, if 12 blades sent back;
reshapening 12 blades for 50 Cents;
reshapening 20 blades for 50 Cents?
Does it offer 12 new blades for 1 USD?
Adam
6 blades for free, if 12 blades sent back;
reshapening 12 blades for 50 Cents;
reshapening 20 blades for 50 Cents?
Does it offer 12 new blades for 1 USD?
Adam
- Thread starter
- #8
Thanks Adam, no apology necessary. Post as much info as you can find and questions about details are welcome.
Here's a pic of the case bottom (someone put tape over the lettering to "protect" it, sigh..), pics showing the illustration of the razor parts (and the blade) in the booklet (notice the length of the knurling matches the razor), and a pic of the last page referring to blades. No other info about blade sharpening or exchanges is in the booklet, which has a red stain from and matching the ribbon placement. The razor itself is somewhat unrefined and I can't imagine it being sent as a final product, rather an evaluation set, which was improved on with feedback from Ames, who was sent another nearer to sale quality set.
If I have my facts straight the Gillette blade/razor patent was applied for in 1901, issued in 1904 and the trademark was registered with the USPTO in 1906. So it is reasonable to assume that any blade marked Patented was made after November 15, 1904, and any reference to trademark was 1906 at the earliest. Does that sound correct? So I will have to find a blade in an envelope with no patent or trademark notice and no date numbers like the one in the pic? Interested to see if anyone has another booklet so they can post a pic of any changes to the image or other differences.
I am assuming the blade pictured in the booklet (which mentions storing blade in the envelope, not wrapper) is the one I should be looking for unless more info is forthcoming. The tiny lettering shown on the blade is not readable but could be Boston Mass. Opinions?
Thanks again for the detailed info and link to other threads on the matter. I love a good mystery. Let's solve it!
ps. The blade shown on the Mr. Razor site has date codes and no patent or trademark info so it is later than 1903, but earlier than November 15. 1904? Sound reasonable?
btw It took Gillette 6 years to find a partner in William Emery Nickerson, am MIT graduate who was in charge of tooling and blade manufacture while Gillette raised funding. Gillette went to MIT in 1895 to get help on making the blades and the metallurgical engineers told him it was impossible. 6 years later he met Nickerson who declared he could make it happen and did. Gillette was the name but Nickerson was the real hero of the story.
I am working on tracking down specific info about whether G.E. Ames was sent a very early sample as a prelude to him being an initial investor in Gillette and another improved set soon after. If I can nail that down it would be an incredible provenance for the set. Knowing who used it back then is great but tying the 2 men together as investor/inventor would be monumental.
Here's a pic of the case bottom (someone put tape over the lettering to "protect" it, sigh..), pics showing the illustration of the razor parts (and the blade) in the booklet (notice the length of the knurling matches the razor), and a pic of the last page referring to blades. No other info about blade sharpening or exchanges is in the booklet, which has a red stain from and matching the ribbon placement. The razor itself is somewhat unrefined and I can't imagine it being sent as a final product, rather an evaluation set, which was improved on with feedback from Ames, who was sent another nearer to sale quality set.
If I have my facts straight the Gillette blade/razor patent was applied for in 1901, issued in 1904 and the trademark was registered with the USPTO in 1906. So it is reasonable to assume that any blade marked Patented was made after November 15, 1904, and any reference to trademark was 1906 at the earliest. Does that sound correct? So I will have to find a blade in an envelope with no patent or trademark notice and no date numbers like the one in the pic? Interested to see if anyone has another booklet so they can post a pic of any changes to the image or other differences.
I am assuming the blade pictured in the booklet (which mentions storing blade in the envelope, not wrapper) is the one I should be looking for unless more info is forthcoming. The tiny lettering shown on the blade is not readable but could be Boston Mass. Opinions?
Thanks again for the detailed info and link to other threads on the matter. I love a good mystery. Let's solve it!
ps. The blade shown on the Mr. Razor site has date codes and no patent or trademark info so it is later than 1903, but earlier than November 15. 1904? Sound reasonable?
btw It took Gillette 6 years to find a partner in William Emery Nickerson, am MIT graduate who was in charge of tooling and blade manufacture while Gillette raised funding. Gillette went to MIT in 1895 to get help on making the blades and the metallurgical engineers told him it was impossible. 6 years later he met Nickerson who declared he could make it happen and did. Gillette was the name but Nickerson was the real hero of the story.
I am working on tracking down specific info about whether G.E. Ames was sent a very early sample as a prelude to him being an initial investor in Gillette and another improved set soon after. If I can nail that down it would be an incredible provenance for the set. Knowing who used it back then is great but tying the 2 men together as investor/inventor would be monumental.
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romsitsa
Hello Sledge,
as with the British Single rings, I honestly don't know whats going on.
The case has the Sales Co. emblem so must be after October 1903.
The blade on the bottom has Gillette Safety Razo Co. twined around the holes, these blades are everywhere date as being from 1905.
Gillette switched from 20 blades to 12 blades not later than summer of 1904.
I have no clue what the "trade mark" on the blade could stand for, as the 1906 trade mark is K.C.G.s hand written name and his portrait.
A solution for the blade mistery could be that on one side the blade had Gillette Safety Razor Co. twined around the holes, while on the other Gillette blade around the center hole and No honing, no stroping around the curved sides with or without date codes in the corners. Then it would match advertisements from 1904 and 1905.
Here is the booklet from Achims site, judging from the page layout, the text is different from yours.
It's from 1904 and list 12 blades for 1 USD or 6 new ones for 12 used.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Anleitungen/1904 Doublering.jpg
The problem with Achims blade is that the numbers can't be year/month/day codes as it would be 1906 or 1911, but the blade is older imho.
Another problem is that the left and right side holes on Achims blade are not full circles, this feature appear in advertisements in 1905 or 1906.
Maybe it's a pre-production blade as they struggled with hardening, tempering and sharpening in 1903-04.
Adam
as with the British Single rings, I honestly don't know whats going on.
The case has the Sales Co. emblem so must be after October 1903.
The blade on the bottom has Gillette Safety Razo Co. twined around the holes, these blades are everywhere date as being from 1905.
Gillette switched from 20 blades to 12 blades not later than summer of 1904.
I have no clue what the "trade mark" on the blade could stand for, as the 1906 trade mark is K.C.G.s hand written name and his portrait.
A solution for the blade mistery could be that on one side the blade had Gillette Safety Razor Co. twined around the holes, while on the other Gillette blade around the center hole and No honing, no stroping around the curved sides with or without date codes in the corners. Then it would match advertisements from 1904 and 1905.
Here is the booklet from Achims site, judging from the page layout, the text is different from yours.
It's from 1904 and list 12 blades for 1 USD or 6 new ones for 12 used.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Anleitungen/1904 Doublering.jpg
The problem with Achims blade is that the numbers can't be year/month/day codes as it would be 1906 or 1911, but the blade is older imho.
Another problem is that the left and right side holes on Achims blade are not full circles, this feature appear in advertisements in 1905 or 1906.
Maybe it's a pre-production blade as they struggled with hardening, tempering and sharpening in 1903-04.
Adam
- Thread starter
- #10
More from google books: "They laughed at Galileo..." Was Ames one of the initial investors? Still digging.
Plus I realize that the case bottom shows the same blade as in the booklet so the tiny text probably reads Trade on one side and Mark on the other. Can you apply the mark after application but before it is granted by the USPTO?
Also see that sales were slow in 1903 but that doesn't mean they didn't produce many more than were sold.
Plus I realize that the case bottom shows the same blade as in the booklet so the tiny text probably reads Trade on one side and Mark on the other. Can you apply the mark after application but before it is granted by the USPTO?
Also see that sales were slow in 1903 but that doesn't mean they didn't produce many more than were sold.
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- Thread starter
- #11
So much to learn, so much still a mystery. Here is the full booklet.
R
romsitsa
It's trade mark on the top of the blade. This is what puzzles me as the first trade mark I know of was filed 1906, the earlier ones were patents.
Adam
Adam
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- Thread starter
- #13
Got me puzzled too since as you say the trademark was not issued until 1906. I wonder if he went ahead and put it on the document/blades after he filed but before he was granted the trademark?
Hey! Just found this at Trademarks: Frequently Asked Questions by 4Trademark.Com:
"TM SYMBOL: Parties claiming rights to particular trademarks may use the symbol TM next to their marks at any time - even prior to filing a trademark application."
Also: "...your protection starts as of the date of filing, not the date of issue. Thus, you do not need to wait for a final registration certificate before you begin to use your trademark in interstate commerce."
That answers a HUGE question about the mark on the blades and box. Under the rules Gillette could start using the mark BEFORE the trademark received final registration acceptance paperwork and even BEFORE filing for it. Cool! However this blade (which I thought was a good candidate at first) states TM was registered so it must be 1906-190?
Digging for more....
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romsitsa
Thank you for the booklet, interesting read. Also thanks for the trade mark part, not having to file a trademark to use it makes many thing clearer.
I still think your set dates October 1903-June 1904.
One thing bothers me with Ames being an investor (or possible investor). Why did they print the address of Ames onto the ribbon? It makes no sense to me unless the set was intended to be sold by Ames.
I think the blade you posted (and also Achims) can't fit our timeframe as it clearly states not to be resharpened while in 1904-05 (maybe also 1903?) Gillette offered resharpening.
It ceased during 1906 when the price of new blades was dropped from 1USD/12 blade to 50 Cent/10 blades.
Adam
I still think your set dates October 1903-June 1904.
One thing bothers me with Ames being an investor (or possible investor). Why did they print the address of Ames onto the ribbon? It makes no sense to me unless the set was intended to be sold by Ames.
I think the blade you posted (and also Achims) can't fit our timeframe as it clearly states not to be resharpened while in 1904-05 (maybe also 1903?) Gillette offered resharpening.
It ceased during 1906 when the price of new blades was dropped from 1USD/12 blade to 50 Cent/10 blades.
Adam
- Thread starter
- #15
I think the set may be an evaluation set sent earlier in 1903 due to the rough almost unfinished nature but it could have been as late as October. By 1904 much had changed in the printed materials and with the text on the box, also the razor itself had been refined a bit.
About the ribbon: With banks and big business it used to be (and still is in some cases) customary for the big shots to have something of value with the bank name and/or their name on it to give to valued customers or business partners. In this case Ames used the Chamber of Commerce as his professional mailing address so it makes sense if he was going to give a set away the ribbon would have that on it also.
As far as selling them, Mr. Ames was a prominent businessman in manufacturing so I'm almost positive they weren't sent to him to be sold, he wasn't a salesman. Could be if he was not an investor they were sent to promote the new razor and blades and to get feedback, possibly a manufacturing deal. I'll bet after evaluating it he wired Gillette: "Send me another one to show my business partners." Accounts note that many early positive reviews sent by those who evaluated the razor were instrumental in helping to secure funding.
Great point about blade resharpening not being offered after 1905! I didn't put 2 and 2 together on that until you mentioned it. My blade search may be a long one.
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romsitsa
I think it can't be earlier than October 1903. as this is the earliest date of a Gillette advertisement and in this ad the sales agency is called Townsend and Hunt. Now these gentlemen founded Gillette Sales Co. in Chicago as on the ribbon of your set. I don't see a point in using Gillette Sales Co. name, then switching back to their own name then back to Gillette Sales Co. again in the same year.
About the Ames part, the investor part now sounds more logical, but the manufacturing part, I don't know. Nickerson wrote about (almost constant) lack of money but not about a possible outsourcing production.
Adam
About the Ames part, the investor part now sounds more logical, but the manufacturing part, I don't know. Nickerson wrote about (almost constant) lack of money but not about a possible outsourcing production.
Adam
- Thread starter
- #17
Ah yes, good point. Was Townsend and Hunt an advertising agency or a sales agency? I'm hanging my hat on this one being an evaluation sent in October 1903 then, with the refined version being sent a bit later, perhaps first of 1904.
Documents say the first 51 were sold in a lot, together. I wonder who ordered them?
Documents say the first 51 were sold in a lot, together. I wonder who ordered them?
R
romsitsa
Sales agency, iirc.
I never fully understood what these 51 sets were and from where this number came. Nickerson writes they made "many" sets during 1903., but these were mainly for trials. He mentions a shipment of 50 razors dated 1st January 1904., but also writes this was the first one he has a record of, so there could have been earlier shipments in 1903. Also were these commercial shipments to the Sales Co. or to customers? They agreed on being the sole agents of Gillette in July 1903.
Adam
I never fully understood what these 51 sets were and from where this number came. Nickerson writes they made "many" sets during 1903., but these were mainly for trials. He mentions a shipment of 50 razors dated 1st January 1904., but also writes this was the first one he has a record of, so there could have been earlier shipments in 1903. Also were these commercial shipments to the Sales Co. or to customers? They agreed on being the sole agents of Gillette in July 1903.
Adam
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Outstanding thread. I love any documentation, theory or what have you about the early years of DE development. 
- Thread starter
- #20
Tanner and Hunt became the sole agents in July 1903? That became the Gillette Sales Co. or was it another firm starting in October?
Re. commercial vs to customers. If the sales agreement was in force on that date then Gillette would have been prohibited from sending them directly to customers after July 1903. The sales company has the sole right to sell at that point so the lot must have gone to them to be sent individually to customers.
Would you post a pic of the 1903 advertisement please? I can't locate it.
