navy or airforce

[Topgumby]

You have that heartfelt apology, and my assurance that what was said was meant as teasing humor. Interservice rivalry is a longstanding tradition, but the "all in the family" aspect was obviously badly lost when I posted.

I have the highest respect for anyone who wears the uniform, perhaps high enough that I didn't imagine my teasing would be taken in the least bit seriously.
I've had soldiers, sailors, airmen and coastguardsmen call me a Jarhead and much worse, and I took it as ribbing. The "smile while you say that" was obviously missing from my posts and they caused offfense. I deeply regret that, and offer a contrite, and humble apology.

 

[brianw]

TOP:

Not lost on me... as you said inter service rivalry has always been the norm...been called a "squid" and much worse with my reply back to that marine that he was nothing more than a "sea going bellhop, as he had the uniform for it"...there was never any question that when the chips were down any member of any branch would have my back... and it was proved in more then 1 barroom altercation.

My point is, it's one big brotherhood and I have the greatest respect for all my brothers (and sisters) no matter what branch or country they served or are serving for.

 

[SRock]

You have that heartfelt apology, and my assurance that what was said was meant as teasing humor. Interservice rivalry is a longstanding tradition, but the "all in the family" aspect was obviously badly lost when I posted.

I have the highest respect for anyone who wears the uniform, perhaps high enough that I didn't imagine my teasing would be taken in the least bit seriously.
I've had soldiers, sailors, airmen and coastguardsmen call me a Jarhead and much worse, and I took it as ribbing. The "smile while you say that" was obviously missing from my posts and they caused offfense. I deeply regret that, and offer a contrite, and humble apology.

Dan, I graciously accept. As this was a serious post where a member was looking for serious answers I must have missed your jesting intentions. I certainly appreciate a good inter-service dust up from time to time but must have missed the laughs that went along with your posts.

Consider this a dead issue.

Thanks

TOP:

Not lost on me... as you said inter service rivalry has always been the norm...been called a "squid" and much worse with my reply back to that marine that he was nothing more than a "sea going bellhop, as he had the uniform for it"...there was never any question that when the chips were down any member of any branch would have my back... and it was proved in more then 1 barroom altercation.

My point is, it's one big brotherhood and I have the greatest respect for all my brothers (and sisters) no matter what branch or country they served or are serving for.

Brian, its not lost on me either but as this was a serious thread it certainly didn't come across that way at all.

Everyone, this is a dead issue. Lets all please help the OP in a serious manner as he tries to determine what is the best choice for his life. Military service is an intense obligation and often includes an immense amount of sacrifice.

I too have nothing but love, admiration and respect for all who are brave enough to defend the things they hold so dear.

 

[valmara1971]

Dan, I graciously accept. As this was a serious post where a member was looking for serious answers I must have missed your jesting intentions. I certainly appreciate a good inter-service dust up from time to time but must have missed the laughs that went along with your posts.

Consider this a dead issue.

Thanks



Brian, its not lost on me either but as this was a serious thread it certainly didn't come across that way at all.

Everyone, this is a dead issue. Lets all please help the OP in a serious manner as he tries to determine what is the best choice for his life. Military service is an intense obligation and often includes an immense amount of sacrifice.

I too have nothing but love, admiration and respect for all who are brave enough to defend the things they hold so dear.

Oh but you forgot to add, we have 10 figure grid refs for all those who dare to anger the iron birds plus a whole load of LGB's

I know it's over but Top made me smile actually, just another example of YMMV I guess.

Back on topic: Think why you want to join, what service could mean and what it could do for you after you leave.

 

[TheVez2]

The real question is what do you want to do in the service? Do you want to travel? Would you rather stay in the US? I agree that you should visit the recruiters and see what they have to offer and see which service appeals to you.

I can tell you from experience that the Air Force does take very good care of its people, far better than the other services. I have worked in several Joint Commands and whenever I work with Navy and Army, they are always surprised by the way the Air Force works and what they do for us. Mainly talking about base facilities and services.

The running joke is that the first thing the Air Force builds when constructing a new base is the Golf Course.

After talking with the folks at my last deployment, I'm sure glad I picked the Air Force and not one of the other services. But that may not be the right fit for you.... you'll need to determine that on your own.

 

[elkaholic]

I am about to retire from the Air Force within the next year, after 20 years as an AMMO troop, and I can tell you the Air Force has been the best decision I ever made. I have been places and seen things I never would have if I had stayed home and joined the ranks of mill workers.

The AF does offer an excellent quality of Life, better than most of the other services, from what they have told me (usually with more than a little envy).

My opinion, if you want to see the world as part of your service, go AF. When I was stationed in Italy, we always knew when the Navy hit port, because most of the tobacco was gone!

If you want to stay mostly in the US, go Coast Guard. If I knew then what I know now, I might have gone this route. (Think, Drug Interdiction)

IMHO, nowadays, the Marines and Army are nothing but meat grinders. I have the utmost respect for them and what they do. I have been to Afghanistan and seen it; would not want to do it myself.

Oh and don't worry about the girls either if you are deemed worthy and become a bomb god, the honeys just come buzzing.

Go AF AMMO. I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.

 

[Tekka]

Go Air Force, better pay and better lifestyle. Try to shoot for a specialty which will pay big bucks when you get out.

 

[DolimiteB]

I have a long post, but I think you'll find it rather helpful.
About me: I played hockey in boarding school and was recruited by both the Air Force Academy and West Point (and some normal people schools) to play in college. I ended up at West Point and graduated in 2007. My first assignment was to an Aviation battalion in Honduras as part of a Joint-Task Force with the Air Force. I'm currently deployed to southern Afghanistan with a Marine infantry battalion augmented by Navy medical personnel (doctors and combat medics). Hence, I've seen a lot of the different branches and these are my opinions.
Most physically demanding
1. Marines/Army
2. Navy
3. Air Force
Quality of Life
1. Air Force
2. Navy
3. Army
4. Marines
Air Force: The AF is regarded as the Country Club of the services. Why? While not deployed, the AF works rather normal office hours (8/9-5). Living conditions are plush relative to the other services. When AF personnel are sent to Army bases for any period of time and are housed in Army barracks, the AF personnel receive additional pay because Army barracks are deemed "sub-standard" living conditions. Additionally, AF personnel are trained for specific jobs to a greater degree than people in the Army/Marines. Specifically, it will say in your contract that you don't have to perform work not within your specialty. Several times I have seen an AF Tech Sergeant refuse to do intelligence work not directly involved with her intelligence specialty. Also unique to the AF is that, for the most part, it sends its Officers to fight, not its enlisted. To fly you have to be an Officer and air support constitutes the bulk of the AF's involvement in both wars. Increasingly, we're seeing lower enlisted personnel on the battlefield in the form of intelligence analysts and Explosives Ordnance Disposal (EOD...they take IEDs apart or usually just blow them up from a distance). If you're interested in Special Operations Forces (SOF) work, the AF is rather limited although you do have the Para-Jumpers who rescue downed pilots and AF Tactical Air Combat Controllers. These guys are wonder kids that are usually attached to Army Special Forces (Green Berets) or SEALs. A Tactical Air Combat Controller can call in air support for the unit. He is, in effect, an Air Traffic Controller guiding anywhere from 1 to 20 different planes into specific positions to deliver payloads (bomb, missile, machine gun fire) on a specific target. In a pinch, these guys are also trained on how to open an airfield in an austere environment (i.e. the middle of the desert where no one has ever landed before).
Bases: All over the world with a lot in great places like Italy, Germany, Turkey, and Spain.
Marines: While I have only interacted with their infantry, I find them to be unimpressive. Marines are an expeditionary force whose mission is (more or less) to deploy from a ship at sea, make their way through the littoral, and secure a beachhead. As such, it’s difficult to give them a fair evaluation because they are currently being used to perform an Army mission (fight/occupy). The Marines are very formal in how they approach everything and in my opinion strictly adhere to anything and everything that might be regarded as pedantic by another service. I think this is largely a function of lack of maturity. In the last three weeks this unit has had six negligent discharges of weapons resulting in one Marine losing his left leg. I would equate Marines to the high school football team--jocks to an inordinate degree. Mind you, this is anecdotal evidence.They take pride in making sure that living conditions remain less than optimal so that when they get back they can tell people how tough life was…even if it was self-imposed. Another thing: they don’t have their own medical personnel. Whenever they deploy they have to borrow medical support from the Navy or Army. The Marines didn’t deem it necessary to invest in doctors or combat medics. Marine SOF opportunities are somewhat limited. You have Force Recon which isn’t really SOF and performs the long range reconnaissance of the enemy. Their job is to “get eyes” on the enemy and report back. They will fight if they need to, but that’s not their mission. A new element with the Marine Corps is called MARSOF. These are basically 10-15 man teams that mirror what Army Special Forces do. I trained with a MARSOF team in Florida at Gryphon Group Security Solutions about three months ago and found them to be good, but not as tactically or technically proficient as an Army SF team. This is probably because MARSOF is still in its growing stages whereas Army SF has been around since the Vietnam era. Other parts of the Marine Corps may be different so don’t take my word as gospel, but the Marines have not lived up to the image I had of them before I started supporting them. They are good people, just not what the commercials made them out to be. Were I with another unit my opinion might differ significantly.
Bases: Quantico, Camp Lejeune, Camp Pendleton, Twenty-Nine Palms, Okinawa…that’s about it.
Navy: I know the least about the Navy. You go out on a cruise for six months and then come home. Life is cramped and crowded. You will see a lot of the world. Bases tend to be in rather nice coastal locations. There is a pecking order in the Navy: Fighter pilots, submarines, surface warfare (ships). As far as SOF opportunities go you have SEAL teams. SEALs perform direct-action missions against enemy targets. Direct-action basically means they’re going to kick down a door and kill/capture someone. The training is long and arduous—more of a mental grind than physical. All SOF, regardless of service, are mostly interested in your mental toughness. Sure you have to be physically above average, but by and large they want to know who will quit and quitting is a conscious decision made by the mind. You can fall down a lot in SOF assessments, but provided you keep getting back up they are more than likely to let you stay in training. That’s a blanket statement because there are some things that you absolutely must be able to do, but my underlying point is that they want to know more about your mental software than the number of pushups you can do. What’s the difference between a guy that can do 90 pushups and one that can do 96? Not much. After a while it’s the law of diminishing returns. Doing six extra doesn’t count for much.
Army: The Army is like a bigger version of the Marine Corps, but with different uniforms. Both services have redundant branches (infantry, armor, intelligence, aviation, signals, etc.). The Army is more relaxed about things like haircuts and wear of uniforms. Bases are largely in less than ideal places like Ft. Bragg or Ft. Riley although there are some nice ones in Germany, Tacoma, and Colorado Springs. The Army has the most robust collection of SOF entities. The 75th Ranger Regiment is considered a White Tier II SOF element. White means they’re publicly acknowledged and Tier II means they’re not cool enough to be Tier I. They are highly trained light infantry that move fast to get to an objective and secure it. Their deployments are typically around 4 months. They are given a specific mission and when they accomplish it they go home. You won’t find Rangers conducting presence patrols for 12 months. They get a job and when it’s done they get to go home. They work fast. Army Special Forces (Green Berets) are perhaps the most well known among the US military SOF elements. Army SF is for the most part White Tier II and consists of, at the lowest level, 12 men operating to train indigenous personnel how to do something on their own. An ideal mission for SF is one in which they infiltrate undetected and link up with a rebel force (if we don’t like the government) or host nation army (if we like the government and don’t want it overthrown) to train them to do the job themselves. In a utopian world the guys that the Green Berets train get to take credit for the success and Army SF leaves without a word. Their motto is “De Opresso Libor” which loosely translates to “Freeing the Oppressed.” Their unwritten motto is “Quiet Professionals.” In response to the failure of the Iranian Hostage Crisis in 1979(?) the Army also developed what is known now as the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR). These are the best helicopter pilots in the world. Bar none. Nobody disputes it. They like to fly at night under Night Vision Goggles at and altitude they refer to as Nape of the Earth: so low you could drop a foot out the side of the Blackhawk and touch ground. That’s an exaggeration, but you get the point. They fly low—which is dangerous unless you’re as good as them. Their passengers are usually SEAL teams, Green Berets, or Delta Force. Lastly, Delta Force. Delta is considered a “Black” unit because technically it doesn’t exist. Delta and other entities like Seal Team 6 comprise what are known as Special Mission Units (SMU). The Pentagon doesn’t acknowledge their existence. The founder of Delta, COL Charlie Beckwith, wrote a book about them as did former Command Sergeant Major Eric Haney. I recommend them both as well as “Kill bin Laden” by former Delta troop commander Dalton Fury. Information about Delta and other Tier I units is some of the most closely guarded information out there. I only know what I’ve read online and in the aforementioned books, but Delta along with SEAL Team 6 (DEVGRU) and the British SAS/SBS are widely considered the crème de la crème in the world as it concerns SOF.
Questions You Have to Answer for Yourself:
Are you an Alpha Male that will only be happy around other guys who are conducting operations off of the Forward Operating Base directly engaging the enemy?
Would you rather be on the base (like me) supporting those guys that go off the base to conduct missions? You will be lower on the pecking order if so because you are a POG (Personnel Other than Ground).
Do you want to be an Officer or Enlisted? Officers make more money, but have more responsibility. It will also require that you have at least an AA with the intent to get a BA/BS degree.
Whatever you do, try to get a Top Secret clearance because if you decide to get out, you can easily get hired for a six figure job by a Defense Contractor because Top Secret clearance investigations are costly and they don’t want to pay for one.
My first choice branch was Aviation and I didn’t get it. In hindsight, I should have gone Infantry because that suits my disposition. Unfortunately, I’m one of the many POGs that exist. You know who you are so don’t fight it and just go where you know you’ll fit in.

 

[Open Channel D]

I have been in the Navy 35 years on June 3. Joined at 17 the day I graduated high school. I started out as an enlisted hospital corpsman, went to Fleet Marine Force (FMF) training and spent 2 tours as an 8404 (corpsman with the Marines). Then went to Independent Duty Corpsman (IDC) school (Surface) and did back to back tours at sea on gator freighters. Made E-8 in 13 years, then got picked up for Physician's Assistant school, but hated it and convinced the Navy to let me get a BioMedical Engineering degree instead. Got my commission in 1988, when we started closing hospitals instead of building them, so never really got to use that degree. Spent one tour as a medical planner in Europe then got sent to school for a master's in healthcare information technology and since 2001 have been working on the DoD's Electronic Health Record (EHR).

Navy's been good to me. Money's pretty good (I make about $155k/year) and if I retire next year, I will get 90% of my base pay for the rest of my life (about $89K/year). If I stay in my field, which I will, I can earn about $180-230K a year. I plan on working another 5 years and completely retiring at 58.

One thing I haven't heard said yet on this thread is that the Navy and Air Force are both downsizing. Promotion for many rates in the Navy are at a standstill. The Coast Guard isn't even recruiting this year and is probably all done for next year by now.

If you want to go medical, the clear choice is the Navy. While all basic medical training has been watered down (and all basic medical training will shortly be done at a tri-service school in San Antonio), the Navy will generally allow you better opportunities to deliver a wider scope of treatment, especially as an IDC. Unfortunately, outside of working for the Military Sealift Command or an oil/mine exploration company when you get out, nobody in the civilian community will let you practice at that level.

The military, as a career, is not what it used to be. We are PC as all hell and diversity rules. A smaller force with a high optempo means more time at sea. In 35 years, I've had a total of just over 10 years at sea, two unaccompanied tours and two deployments. That's just over 14 years away from my family.

Lastly, while I agree with most of what's been said about the Air Force, the one constant is that if you're not a pilot, you'd better be a forward air controller, or a Pararescue Jumper. Every other job is third rate as far as the AF brass is concerned. The Air Force still has active duty airmen working in their gyms/fitness centers and that's a joke.

If you like adventure, excitement and the outdoors, I have one word for you.
Riverine! Great opportunities and you'll have the time of your life.

Good luck.

 

[Open Channel D]

Go Air Force, better pay and better lifestyle. Try to shoot for a specialty which will pay big bucks when you get out.

Uh, the pay is the same for all branches. E-5 in the Air Force makes the same as an E-5 in the Navy, Marine Corps, Army and Coast Guard.

 

[hicksdm]

Been in the AF for 18 years as a Security Forces troop. When they try to sell you that career field run far far away. Also stay away from flightline work or any other maintance career field. As the rest of the Air Force is off on weekend and holidays you see those guys working away in some pretty rough conditions. Of course the hospital is open but they have all those nice looking girls to look at as well as AC or heat depending on the time of year. Also the maintainers and cops are always deployed or TDY on a regular basis. As a cop you can depend on being gone 6 months out of the year not including training. I would decide what you are looking for from the service and then head in that direction. You want a job that is easy and like a normal job then work in the hospital or as a computer guy or some admin type work. If you are looking to be HUA and want to save the world then go Army/Marines. Whatever you decide just make sure you do it for the right reason and your career, no matter how long you serve, will be rewarding.

 

[breadstick]

Been in the AF for 18 years as a Security Forces troop. When they try to sell you that career field run far far away. Also stay away from flightline work or any other maintance career field. As the rest of the Air Force is off on weekend and holidays you see those guys working away in some pretty rough conditions. Of course the hospital is open but they have all those nice looking girls to look at as well as AC or heat depending on the time of year. Also the maintainers and cops are always deployed or TDY on a regular basis. As a cop you can depend on being gone 6 months out of the year not including training. I would decide what you are looking for from the service and then head in that direction. You want a job that is easy and like a normal job then work in the hospital or as a computer guy or some admin type work. If you are looking to be HUA and want to save the world then go Army/Marines. Whatever you decide just make sure you do it for the right reason and your career, no matter how long you serve, will be rewarding.

This. I have been in the Air Force for just over 10 years and it was definitely for me. I am a comm guy and I would very much recommend that for you. Try to find something that you have to maintain a Top Secret clearance. That coupled with the on-the-job training you will receive will open a lot of door in the civilian world if you decide to get out. I hate my current job because it is almost a civilian job and there is no military job satisfaction, but I get a new job in Korea next month so I am looking forward to that.

I definitely recommend the Air Force for the quality of life, at home and deployed (I only deployed 3 times but all 3 were not bad) and the opportunities. I can't speak for all jobs, but if you work comm you will work with a lot of civilians and if you do your job well you will always have contacts for a civilian job.

 

[SRock]

The running joke is that the first thing the Air Force builds when constructing a new base is the Golf Course.

True dat! If the O's aren't happy, no one is happy.

I have a long post, but I think you'll find it rather helpful.

Excellent post.

The military, as a career, is not what it used to be. We are PC as all hell and diversity rules. A smaller force with a high optempo means more time at sea.

I agree. Unfortunately that's the nature of the beast these days and I suspect that is the norm outside the military as well.

The Air Force still has active duty airmen working in their gyms/fitness centers and that's a joke.

I haven't seen an AD Airman working at the gym in years. Everyplace I've been over the past 6-8 years or so the Fitness Centers have been manned by civilians. I don't doubt there are still a few stragglers out there though.

Uh, the pay is the same for all branches. E-5 in the Air Force makes the same as an E-5 in the Navy, Marine Corps, Army and Coast Guard.

Kind of, like someone else mentioned above the AF often pays increased per diem rates when we are forced to Billet on Army/Marine posts due to "substandard living conditions."

Been in the AF for 18 years as a Security Forces troop. When they try to sell you that career field run far far away. Also stay away from flightline work or any other maintance career field. As the rest of the Air Force is off on weekend and holidays you see those guys working away in some pretty rough conditions. Of course the hospital is open but they have all those nice looking girls to look at as well as AC or heat depending on the time of year. Also the maintainers and cops are always deployed or TDY on a regular basis. As a cop you can depend on being gone 6 months out of the year not including training. I would decide what you are looking for from the service and then head in that direction. You want a job that is easy and like a normal job then work in the hospital or as a computer guy or some admin type work. If you are looking to be HUA and want to save the world then go Army/Marines. Whatever you decide just make sure you do it for the right reason and your career, no matter how long you serve, will be rewarding.

This is pretty solid advice if you're not looking to be a grunt. I've got 15 years in Security Forces and I totally agree. The one saving grace for me has been the lateral train into Combat Arms. I'm off most weekends and holidays.

 

[The Nid Hog]

Marines: While I have only interacted with their infantry, I find them to be unimpressive. Marines are an expeditionary force whose mission is (more or less) to deploy from a ship at sea, make their way through the littoral, and secure a beachhead. As such, it’s difficult to give them a fair evaluation because they are currently being used to perform an Army mission (fight/occupy). The Marines are very formal in how they approach everything and in my opinion strictly adhere to anything and everything that might be regarded as pedantic by another service. I think this is largely a function of lack of maturity. In the last three weeks this unit has had six negligent discharges of weapons resulting in one Marine losing his left leg. I would equate Marines to the high school football team--jocks to an inordinate degree. Mind you, this is anecdotal evidence.They take pride in making sure that living conditions remain less than optimal so that when they get back they can tell people how tough life was…even if it was self-imposed. Another thing: they don’t have their own medical personnel. Whenever they deploy they have to borrow medical support from the Navy or Army. The Marines didn’t deem it necessary to invest in doctors or combat medics. Marine SOF opportunities are somewhat limited. You have Force Recon which isn’t really SOF and performs the long range reconnaissance of the enemy. Their job is to “get eyes” on the enemy and report back. They will fight if they need to, but that’s not their mission. A new element with the Marine Corps is called MARSOF. These are basically 10-15 man teams that mirror what Army Special Forces do. I trained with a MARSOF team in Florida at Gryphon Group Security Solutions about three months ago and found them to be good, but not as tactically or technically proficient as an Army SF team. This is probably because MARSOF is still in its growing stages whereas Army SF has been around since the Vietnam era. Other parts of the Marine Corps may be different so don’t take my word as gospel, but the Marines have not lived up to the image I had of them before I started supporting them. They are good people, just not what the commercials made them out to be. Were I with another unit my opinion might differ significantly.
Bases: Quantico, Camp Lejeune, Camp Pendleton, Twenty-Nine Palms, Okinawa…that’s about it.

That's an awesome summary of the Corps. It's a shame to waste it on a shaving forum like this. You should print it up and walk it over to the Colonel or the Sgt Maj whose unit you're supporting!