Naniwa Super Stones vs Shapton Ceramics

[global_dev]

Now, I have to hone a razor up on it and shave, because honestly Nani 12k shaves have been unimpressive (good relative to a synth barber stone for instance, but below what I'll use twice) for me in the past, but seeing how fine this stone is in use, I'm beginning to wonder if that's just problems with the honer and not the stone (they were all "Shave-Ready" purchases).

did you ever get to this?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah. Nani 12k gives decent shaves off it, but so far I find Thuringian finishes noticeably better. I'd say Nani 12k is about on par with the average edge I get off a coticule. The thing about the Naniwa is that it's pretty useless to polish much on it. Despite the bevel looking MUCH smoother after 300passes on the 12000 vs say 50 passes, the shaves aren't noticeably different. If something doesn't change I'll probably resell it. The size is its main advantage over similarly priced coticules (and I prefer 7x2 to 8x3, so it doesn't do anything for me), but the BIG downside is that as it is so soft and glazes so readily, it will require a lot of cleaning and smoothing... whereas a coti requires none.

 

[johnmrson]

Well it looks like I'm going to have to get a bigger work bench. I've managed to find a trade where I'll get a 16k Shapton ceramic.

When they all come in, I'll have a 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k, 12k, 16k and 30k in Shapton ceramic stones. I've also got a Nakayama Asagi coming but I'm not really sure that's going to get alot of use now.

I could have really used the 2k on the weekend. I was honing up a couple of straights and got as far as I could on the 1k before switching to the 5k but you have to do alot of work on the 5k before you can move up to the 8k.

I love the feel of the Shapton though. I reckon the feedback from them is great.

 

[jendeindustries]

Well it looks like I'm going to have to get a bigger work bench. I've managed to find a trade where I'll get a 16k Shapton ceramic.

When they all come in, I'll have a 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k, 12k, 16k and 30k in Shapton ceramic stones. I've also got a Nakayama Asagi coming but I'm not really sure that's going to get alot of use now.

I could have really used the 2k on the weekend. I was honing up a couple of straights and got as far as I could on the 1k before switching to the 5k but you have to do alot of work on the 5k before you can move up to the 8k.

I love the feel of the Shapton though. I reckon the feedback from them is great.

It sounds like you have the pro stones? Even with the 2K, you need a little more time (but not as much as jumping from 1K) on the 5K. It's a critical point in the pro series. I like to spend a little extra time on the 2K with really really light strokes, then go to the 5K.

From your description, the 12K sounds like the Japanese formulation of the Pro, which in the US is 15K - either way it's creamy yellow, but it is about the same grit as the 16K. I think if you play with both of them, you will see different results (in a positive way) before going to the 30K Glass.

A quick suggestion about the glass stones - be liberal with the water, especially at the 16K and 30K levels. I've found that the swarf can affect the edge if there is too much built up.

Keep us informed!

 

[johnmrson]

It sounds like you have the pro stones? Even with the 2K, you need a little more time (but not as much as jumping from 1K) on the 5K. It's a critical point in the pro series. I like to spend a little extra time on the 2K with really really light strokes, then go to the 5K.

From your description, the 12K sounds like the Japanese formulation of the Pro, which in the US is 15K - either way it's creamy yellow, but it is about the same grit as the 16K. I think if you play with both of them, you will see different results (in a positive way) before going to the 30K Glass.

A quick suggestion about the glass stones - be liberal with the water, especially at the 16K and 30K levels. I've found that the swarf can affect the edge if there is too much built up.

Keep us informed!

The 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k and 12k are the full sized ceramic Pro stones and I bought them from Japan. The 16k and 30 are the stones on glass.

Thanks for the tip about the water. I'm pretty particular about keeping the stones as clean as practical when honing so hopefully I should be OK.

 

[superbleu]

It sounds like you have the pro stones? Even with the 2K, you need a little more time (but not as much as jumping from 1K) on the 5K. It's a critical point in the pro series. I like to spend a little extra time on the 2K with really really light strokes, then go to the 5K.

Tom, can you elaborate the transition from 2k to 5K.

 

[jendeindustries]

Sure!

There is what I've labeled a "critical point" in honing where you go from stock metal removal to polishing metal removal. What I have seen is that if not enough time is spent on the 5K, you still basically still have that 2K edge when you go to shave. The 2K establishes new scratches (peaks and valleys) fairly easily by essentially digging into the metal, but the 5K is the first stone in the pro series that removes metal from the "peaks down" before establishing its own peaks and valleys. The 8k, 15k and 30k work in the same way.


Basically, I try to really get my 2K to remove everything under it, so when I polish it with the 5K, those deeper and coarser scratches don't suddenly appear. This also makes progressing past the 5K to the 30K much faster. I'm still working on my theory here, but I believe it also cuts down on making the edge too thin when canceling out the previous grit's scratches.


FWIW, the glass stones' critical point is between the 4K and 8K. I find the 6K being very useful in acting as a bridge.

 

[superbleu]

Thanks Tom, I'm gonna have to go back and read the email you sent me awhile back.