Is the binder a bit off? Every one I have seen on there looked dry. This how mine is after a lap and conditioning
My shave results; edge comparisons.
- Thread starter SliceOfLife
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- #242
Seems to be in good shape to me. I'll get a couple pictures or a short video up later today. Wife's still asleep beside my phone.
Are you referring to shallow cracking like looking like mud when it dries?
Not so much with swaty types. They go almost styrofoamy and seem to act really bizarrely when wet.
I suspect some of them just get bad cases of chemical weathering. If I put a barber hone on sandpaper and it is raining slurry inmediately it kind of gives me pause. Sometimes they seem to firm back up as you cut into them, other times the whole thing seems compromised.
I suspect the ones that don’t come back were used with oil but Ian probably knows better.
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- #248
I've found basically no evidence that supports the theory that most Synth barber hones are bad because of breakdown... especially with swaty types.
I've owned a few broken down barber hones. There is little to no evidence I've seen that this is a gradual process due to time. It appears to be a rapid process due to mistreatment or exposure to something (excessive heat, kept wet too long*, etc) I suspect it is related to the conversion of iron from one of its oxides to another. I know that PH determines which oxides precipitate in a lab. I would assume that extremes of PH can convert them as well.
This is supported by the fact that all the broken down barber hones I've seen were loaded up with iron oxide.
*My personal suspicion is broken down ones were kept soaking like many people do with certain modern synths and didn't survive it... I've actually SEEN breakdown happen in cheap modern synths where this was done.
No, all the evidence I've seen is that Barbers synths then were just like all the new miracle naturals everyone who lives near a slate or paver mine is marketing now. Just mostly bad, and relying on users ignorance or unwillingness to go through the (then much greater) hassle of a return to keep from being exposed as garbage. It was a buyer beware market with virtually no consistency and a new gimmick for the same crummy hones coming out every other week. And every once in awhile you'd get lucky and there'd be a batch of abrasives that just happened to be particularly fine and a nice hone would pop out... but VERY few manufacturers had anywhere near the kind of control necessary to produce a consistent hone.
Certainly barber hones can break down... but a broken down barber hone is pretty distinct from one that is not. And no broken down barber hone is going to give you a passable shave. A broken down barber hone is about as effective a razor hone as a brick pulled out of the sidewalk.
I've owned a few broken down barber hones. There is little to no evidence I've seen that this is a gradual process due to time. It appears to be a rapid process due to mistreatment or exposure to something (excessive heat, kept wet too long*, etc) I suspect it is related to the conversion of iron from one of its oxides to another. I know that PH determines which oxides precipitate in a lab. I would assume that extremes of PH can convert them as well.
This is supported by the fact that all the broken down barber hones I've seen were loaded up with iron oxide.
*My personal suspicion is broken down ones were kept soaking like many people do with certain modern synths and didn't survive it... I've actually SEEN breakdown happen in cheap modern synths where this was done.
No, all the evidence I've seen is that Barbers synths then were just like all the new miracle naturals everyone who lives near a slate or paver mine is marketing now. Just mostly bad, and relying on users ignorance or unwillingness to go through the (then much greater) hassle of a return to keep from being exposed as garbage. It was a buyer beware market with virtually no consistency and a new gimmick for the same crummy hones coming out every other week. And every once in awhile you'd get lucky and there'd be a batch of abrasives that just happened to be particularly fine and a nice hone would pop out... but VERY few manufacturers had anywhere near the kind of control necessary to produce a consistent hone.
Certainly barber hones can break down... but a broken down barber hone is pretty distinct from one that is not. And no broken down barber hone is going to give you a passable shave. A broken down barber hone is about as effective a razor hone as a brick pulled out of the sidewalk.
I think it has more to do with guys playing with mineral spirits mixed with oil on them and being stored in hot places. I certainly think if one is at a flea market and is sitting in the pelting sun for however many weekends it doesn't help it.
I have had a couple of swaty types where weirdly one side is not right and the other is more or less intact. Aone of them was mounted in a box for whatever reason that was so tight I had to destroy it, the other was free so I don't get that really. The most off the walls chemical weathering I have encountered was with an obscure feldspar hone from the new england area. You literally could scrape about 1/4 off the top pf the hone and it was like molten caramel. It eventually firmed up.
I believe it is mostly due to soap remaining on the hone and hones being exposed to day light/ being kept in a warm place.
If they are kept in a cool dark place and used with water only they should last indefinitely.
Give me another 30 years to test this theory as I have several mint condition quality hones.
U.V will destroy near everything and Bhones are more susceptible than other items.
I would be very surprised if anyone is cutting their oil with mineral spirits for a Barber hone but many would for other hones so certainly possible although it specifically says to use oil not thinned oil on the cases.
If they are kept in a cool dark place and used with water only they should last indefinitely.
Give me another 30 years to test this theory as I have several mint condition quality hones.
U.V will destroy near everything and Bhones are more susceptible than other items.
I would be very surprised if anyone is cutting their oil with mineral spirits for a Barber hone but many would for other hones so certainly possible although it specifically says to use oil not thinned oil on the cases.
Yeah but look at the hones you encounter in the wild... Some guys treated their tools with great respect, but many treated them with utter disregard
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- #253
UV is a possibility, but I'd be surprised if use of mineral spirits damaged most hones. Some certainly (Ones like the Ruby Hone wouldn't surprise me as they seem more of a plastic/polymer base and less of a cementitious base), but not the ones I typically see broken down.
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- #254
Easy peasy thing to test though.
Take a good swaty.
Cut it into a few pieces.
One under a High intensity UV light for a few months.
Stick one in a crock pot for a few days.
Leave one soaking in water for a few years.
Apply Mineral Spirits to one and put it in a closet for a few years.
Put one in vinegar for a few days.
Put one in ammonia for a few days.
Any other theories we need to test?
Take a good swaty.
Cut it into a few pieces.
One under a High intensity UV light for a few months.
Stick one in a crock pot for a few days.
Leave one soaking in water for a few years.
Apply Mineral Spirits to one and put it in a closet for a few years.
Put one in vinegar for a few days.
Put one in ammonia for a few days.
Any other theories we need to test?
I know mineral spirits and beeswax is a bandaid for a coarse coticule so I have no doubt it ended up on barbers hones too.
Edit: this was not a test suggestion I didn’t see the above post before replying Its in response to other posts including mineral spirits
Edit: this was not a test suggestion I didn’t see the above post before replying Its in response to other posts including mineral spirits
Leave one piece saturated in wd40 or 3 in 1
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- #257
That's a good one. I wonder how the penetrating oils might impact them. I suppose we should also do just mineral oil, as some warn against using oil at all.
Idk about you guys but when I find them in the wild a lot of the time they were apparently stored and treated by the owners the same way as their indias and carbos.
You could store a piece in a ziploc with shaving lather
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- #260
Thing is though, I've found some that were clearly treated that way... crusted with oil and swarf just like an oilstone, and clearly kept in a garage drawer or toolbox... and they aren't the least bit broken down. The broken down ones I usually find are bone dry and dusty (and of course very crumbly)... about half of them were even still in boxes... which suggests UV didn't do it (Why would you keep a stone clean and dry and in the sun but save the box). I definitely think UV is a prime candidate, but there are problems with that theory. I've seen nothing to suggest prolonged soaking, excessive heat (Or maybe freezing or wet freezing?), or some unknown chemical reaction doesn't cause it, and soaking seems the most likely of those to happen to me. Also, I've seen modern cheap chinese water stones partially dissolve, bloat, or otherwise change from being kept in water 24/7 and become virtually the exact texture of a "broken down" barber hone personally.
I've got a couple junky but not broken down barber hones around here somewhere... if I can ever get back into the shop and use the water jet, I'll cut them up into slurry stones and test as many of these theories as I can.
One under a High intensity UV light for a few months.
Stick one in a crock pot for a few days.
Leave one soaking in water for a few years.
Apply Mineral Spirits to one and put it in a closet for a few years.
Put one in vinegar for a few days.
Put one in ammonia for a few days.
Penetrating oil
Mineral oil
Lather
Repeated freezing
Soaking then freezing
I've got a couple junky but not broken down barber hones around here somewhere... if I can ever get back into the shop and use the water jet, I'll cut them up into slurry stones and test as many of these theories as I can.
One under a High intensity UV light for a few months.
Stick one in a crock pot for a few days.
Leave one soaking in water for a few years.
Apply Mineral Spirits to one and put it in a closet for a few years.
Put one in vinegar for a few days.
Put one in ammonia for a few days.
Penetrating oil
Mineral oil
Lather
Repeated freezing
Soaking then freezing
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