My experience with tallow soaps

[slather]

Quick background: I started DE shaving with Proraso pre/post, Proraso cream and then again the Proraso pre/post as aftershave. Got great shaves. Then I tried a few other creams with blah results.

Never thought I'd try a soap, but decided to give it a try. That's how I discovered Tabac and after the first lather I thought I was sold on tallow and I thought I found the Holy Grail.

Then on I went on my quest for more tallow soaps: MWF, Arko, IM.

I was not so excited about the shaves I was getting all of a sudden. Meanwhile, I would go back to Proraso and get a great shave again.

The problems I have with tallow:

1) The lather seems to dry rather quickly on my face. Shaving with somewhat dry lather is not too good. I like to take my time, in particular with a Feather blade. It's not about the amount of water I use, I tried more water and the lather gets too runny.

2) I think I get in trouble with tallow because I can get very close without realizing it. I have sensitive skin, so I have to be careful. No ATG for me ever, tried with many soaps, creams, razors, never works, so I'm staying away from that anyway. But I still get in trouble with tallow lather even without going ATG.

3) My face seems to stay a little red for a couple of hours after I use a tallow soap. With Proraso it calms down right away at the end of the shave and it has that nice white, smooth look.

I was never able to match the quality of the shave that I get from Proraso using a tallow soap (they all seem to work the same for me, same feel, same results from the cheap Arko to the higher end MWF and IM). That is until I tried the French shea butter based soaps: Pre de Provence, IK, Provence Sante. I get a great shave with them, on par with Proraso.

Btw, I'm no Proraso fan because I'm not into menthol, but for the quality of shaves I can put up with it.

In conclusion, I don't think I'm made for tallow soaps ... or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I know there are some big tallow fans around here, but as a word of advice for the beginners: try different soaps, there's nothing wrong with veggie soaps if they work well for you and give you a great shave! It's all about experimentation and finding what works for you.

 

[bman40]

Hey

I have had a a similar reaction with a red face from Speick and Mitchell's Wool Fat... but no problem with Irisch Moos or Palmolive.

I have stopped ATG passes and now do WTG and XTG only.

as they say here- YMMV

 

[WhosYerBob]

Your experience echoes mine, but 180 degrees differently. Substitute cream or glycerin for tallow and that's my story.

 

[cymric]

Never thought I'd try a soap, but decided to give it a try. That's how I discovered Tabac and after the first lather I thought I was sold on tallow and I thought I found the Holy Grail.

For starters, I think you shouldn't treat tallow as a magic ingredient. Tallow is as much a mixture of fatty acids as palm or coconut oil, and I don't see people praising those mixtures to high heaven either.

The problems I have with tallow:

No, that should read: 'The problems I have with MWF, Arko and IM...' Especially the latter is very, very odd, since Irisch Moos is identical to Tabac; jus the scent is different. That leads me to believe that the problem is not at all related to tallow, but rather to you thinking you make a good lather with soaps when in fact you are not.

e1) The lather seems to dry rather quickly on my face. Shaving with somewhat dry lather is not too good. I like to take my time, in particular with a Feather blade. It's not about the amount of water I use, I tried more water and the lather gets too runny.

Well then, have you tried using less water (or more soap, it amounts to the same thing)? I think that you'll see a remarkable change, to be honest. One exception: if you can't get MWF to work, don't despair---it is the most controversial soap out there.

2) I think I get in trouble with tallow because I can get very close without realizing it. I have sensitive skin, so I have to be careful. No ATG for me ever, tried with many soaps, creams, razors, never works, so I'm staying away from that anyway. But I still get in trouble with tallow lather even without going ATG.

No, getting very close is not the reason tallow doesn't work for you, nor does tallow allow people to get close shaves. Although the combination 'Feather' and 'sensitive skin' is an odd one to say the least.

3) My face seems to stay a little red for a couple of hours after I use a tallow soap. With Proraso it calms down right away at the end of the shave and it has that nice white, smooth look.

That is not a sign of tallow irritation (which would be the equivalent of palm oil irritation---completely unheard of), but of a too harsh a shave with a bad lather. The wonderful aspect of cream is that it is very easy to control the amount of soapy substances going into the lather; with soaps you have to learn the 'knack'. And it can take quite some fiddling and experimenting before you get it right. To give an example: with Musgo Real cream, my sweet spot is a rather wet lather: little cream, lots of water. Shaves like a dream under those circumstances. If I make the same kind of lather with an older puck of Pré de Provence soap, I will rake the epidermis instead. With PdP I must make the lather noticably drier and more concentrated.

I was never able to match the quality of the shave that I get from Proraso using a tallow soap (they all seem to work the same for me, same feel, same results from the cheap Arko to the higher end MWF and IM). That is until I tried the French shea butter based soaps: Pre de Provence, IK, Provence Sante. I get a great shave with them, on par with Proraso.

Provence Santé is an extremely easy latherer. Dissolves very easily, rather like Tabac, in fact, and is thus ideally suited for people starting out with soaps. I don't know IK, unfortunately, so can't comment, but PdP is a little surprise, as it can be a bit finicky. If I am correct as to what is causing the problems, then you should find PS better than PdP. Am I?

In conclusion, I don't think I'm made for tallow soaps ... or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Yes, you most likely are. Although there is still a small chance that there is something in the three tallow soaps besides tallow which is causing an allergic response of sorts. I don't think that is the cause, though.

 

[kingfisher]

Awesome post, cymric. A lot of good information in it that will prove helpful for a lot of us.

 

[Seraphim]

Quote:
e1) The lather seems to dry rather quickly on my face. Shaving with somewhat dry lather is not too good. I like to take my time, in particular with a Feather blade. It's not about the amount of water I use, I tried more water and the lather gets too runny.

Well then, have you tried using less water (or more soap, it amounts to the same thing)? I think that you'll see a remarkable change, to be honest. One exception: if you can't get MWF to work, don't despair---it is the most controversial soap out there.

This is good advice right here. Too much water will give you a nice "full" looking lather, but it will not have the density to maintain critical mass, and will therefore dry out quicker than if you had less water in there, as counter-intuitive as that mat seem....

 

[Dink]

Awesome post, cymric. A lot of good information in it that will prove helpful for a lot of us.

I agree, except the part about Tabac and IM being identical, they aren't.

Cheers,
David

 

[jhclare]

I have used both good and bad soaps, and the inclusion of tallow in the ingredients bares no relation to whether the soap is good or not. Like someone said, it's not some magic ingredient that makes a soap good.

For example (based on my preferences and experience):

• Erasmic (tallow) - awful
• MWF (tallow) - awful
• Tabac (tallow) - great
• Palmolive (tallow) - great
• Mama bears (no tallow) - great
• Cade (no tallow) - great
• Trumper Coconut (no tallow) - great

So there you go!

 

[cymric]

Not letter for letter, no. (Water is moved to the first spot, and I think there's a bit of stearic acid lurking deep within the IM too.) But in practice? Never noticed a difference save for the scent. I do, by the way, never use IM in stick form, I grate the bugger down.

I think that many people would be surprised to see how hard it is to spot differences in lather and shaving qualities when there is no scent or colour or form to give them hints that they are dealing with different products.

 

[drumana]

I favor tallow based soaps mainly because my skin feels better afterwards. ... Not sure if the actual lather is better or worse than non tallow based soaps for me. Provence Sante, Cade, Trumpers... these all lather wonderfully for me, but leave something to be desired in terms of skin feel after the shave. The difference is slight, but enough that I exclusively use tallow based soaps these days... To each his own and all that...

 

[kaboom]

I have used both good and bad soaps, and the inclusion of tallow in the ingredients bares no relation to whether the soap is good or not. Like someone said, it's not some magic ingredient that makes a soap good.

For example (based on my preferences and experience):

• Erasmic (tallow) - awful
• MWF (tallow) - awful
• Tabac (tallow) - great
• Palmolive (tallow) - great
• Mama bears (no tallow) - great
• Cade (no tallow) - great
• Trumper Coconut (no tallow) - great

So there you go!

I would add to the above - Arko -great (though some are put off by its scent, or lack thereof).

 

[Confilo]

Erasmic has been reformulated and no longer contain tallow. If one used the new version, it is probably awful but don't blame the tallow

 

[82R100]

This is where I chime in and suggest giving VDH Deluxe a try. It's nominally hypo-allergenic and it seems not to dry in place on my face like other soaps do. I won't guess which ingredients do what--it works very well for me and costs less than $2 a puck from Walmart.

- Chris

 

[The Nid Hog]

I'm on board with cymric's advice. I'd look to my technique if I was getting problems like this. Take a look at Jim's sticky about lathering again--you can always pick up something new. Also, be conscious of razor pressure. If you're getting redness, my first thought would be that you're applying too much pressure rather than using the wrong soap.

To be honest, the worst soap that I've ever used produces a pretty darned good lather. Even Williams--universally reviled--will give you a good shave if you deliver with the technique.

 

[andrew98]

Erasmic has been reformulated and no longer contain tallow. If one used the new version, it is probably awful but don't blame the tallow

It is indeed awful.

-Andy

 

[Cookie_Junkie]

So what?

You just can't handle soaps properly (yet?) and go back to good ole "foolproof" Proraso cream, huh?

I can only second my friends here like Cymric and The Nid Hog and suggest you go back to the basics. Water/soap ratio, whipping motion, everything...

You, my friend, don't have a problem with tallow, mind you, not even with tallow-based soaps, but rather with your lathering technique.

So, I wish you good luck and hope to see you praise the soaps that YOU will eventually get to like around here in a few weeks.

See you soon,
C_J

P.S: do not start your training with MWF, an attainable goal is the key, first...

 

[FiXXXer]

Tallow soaps are often triple milled, which makes them harder, and it may take longer to load the brush. I suggest you load the brush for a good minute and then take it to the bowl. It sounds like you just need more soap on the brush.

 

[leeparmet]

I tend to use tallow based soaps in the Fall and Winter as they tend to moisturize better. During the Spring and Summer I use glycerin soaps. So many soaps, so little time

 

[Narck9]

I have to agree with Cymric. I have been shaving with a DE, creams, badger brush for two years. I always noticed that with soaps, I must use less water and more soap. Try that and you will more than likely find that it will make a huge difference. Good luck.

 

[slather]

I have to agree with Cymric. I have been shaving with a DE, creams, badger brush for two years. I always noticed that with soaps, I must use less water and more soap. Try that and you will more than likely find that it will make a huge difference. Good luck.

I don't think it's a lather making problem. I'm fine with glycerin and shea butter soaps, it's just that I don't like the feel of the tallow lather, how it dries quicker and how it leaves my face after. I do get plenty of lather for at least 3 passes, it's not airy, but it seems to get dry faster than the "veggie" lather.

I'm OK with it, if I get better results from the "veggie" soaps, that's what I should be using, whatever works for me, ymmv and all that.