My bad experience as a newbie. Tips apreciated.

[Wallerwilly]

Hello everyone,

The name's Benoit and i've been a lurker for awhile. A few months ago I convinced myself that i had enough of skin irritations after shaving and tried to find a solution. Straight razor shaving seemed like a great idea (and still is). So i started watching videos on honing, restorations, stroping, soaps, brushes you name it. So i did the leap 2 weeks ago, confident, and bought a whole set of garments i didn't already have to start shaving with a straight razor. I'm a chief butcher, been at it for 16 years now. I already had a cople stones and a good experience and knowledge about honing, learning straight razors wasn't too aliening. I chose all my things carefully as to not overdo it or underdo it quality wise. Didn't want to spend thousands or get garbage. So i started with the razor, and boy did i get screwed. I found on ebay a Joseph Allens and son non-xll medium grind, which is perfect for my type of beard from my understanding (WIDE beard, not very thick, but REALY strong hairs). And was sent some piece of junk. Tensorial gem 4/8 with damaged heel, straight tip and an uneven spine (angle not the same from one side to another). The thing cost me 12$ CA, and 36$ CA shipping so i just kept the piece of crap and told myself i would repair it and learn on it. So i put it on the 320 stone to repair the damage, then 1k, 5k, 8k, nat stone. The razor was sharp enough to shave my forearm with 2 buffs no pressure and dry. Came this morning, come out the shower, soaked my brush, built a lather (that i practiced making beforehand), put the blade on my face... couldn't shave for ****. I literally destroyed my face with that razor. I was very carefull with my angles, pressure but it just couldn't get trough the beard, and so i nicked my entire face and neck trying to plough trough it. Here's my gears:

Soap: Arianna and Evans - Grecian Horse and matching aftershave.
Brush: Semogue 830
Stones: 320 Shapton pro, 1k-6k Kings stone (overgraded), 8k Shapton pro, Imperia la roccia nat stone (a good one, i know some got bad ones, this one is good)
Strop: Illinois 127 (cheap 50 buck thing) with a linen+coton+leather combo
Razor: F.A. Clauberg Tensorial Gem 4/8 (on measurements) extra hollow


TL.DR Got screwed on ebay, new at shaving with straight razor, destroyed my face and think its the razor.

If anyone has tips or would feel comfortable with diagnosing my problem taking in acount everything i would be very happy.

 

[.223rem]

I think the best thing to do is start with a razor that you know is sharp. Lots of guys on here can help you out, or buy from a good vendor, lots of 'shave ready' razors are not, so you need to be a little careful.
How ever you do it- start with a good edge, that way you know the mistakes are yours and you can fix them. Learn how to restore and hone after you know what a good edge feels like.

 

[mio_cuggino]

Hello everyone,

The name's Benoit and i've been a lurker for awhile. A few months ago I convinced myself that i had enough of skin irritations after shaving and tried to find a solution. Straight razor shaving seemed like a great idea (and still is). So i started watching videos on honing, restorations, stroping, soaps, brushes you name it. So i did the leap 2 weeks ago, confident, and bought a whole set of garments i didn't already have to start shaving with a straight razor. I'm a chief butcher, been at it for 16 years now. I already had a cople stones and a good experience and knowledge about honing, learning straight razors wasn't too aliening. I chose all my things carefully as to not overdo it or underdo it quality wise. Didn't want to spend thousands or get garbage. So i started with the razor, and boy did i get screwed. I found on ebay a Joseph Allens and son non-xll medium grind, which is perfect for my type of beard from my understanding (WIDE beard, not very thick, but REALY strong hairs). And was sent some piece of junk. Tensorial gem 4/8 with damaged heel, straight tip and an uneven spine (angle not the same from one side to another). The thing cost me 12$ CA, and 36$ CA shipping so i just kept the piece of crap and told myself i would repair it and learn on it. So i put it on the 320 stone to repair the damage, then 1k, 5k, 8k, nat stone. The razor was sharp enough to shave my forearm with 2 buffs no pressure and dry. Came this morning, come out the shower, soaked my brush, built a lather (that i practiced making beforehand), put the blade on my face... couldn't shave for ****. I literally destroyed my face with that razor. I was very carefull with my angles, pressure but it just couldn't get trough the beard, and so i nicked my entire face and neck trying to plough trough it. Here's my gears:

Soap: Arianna and Evans - Grecian Horse and matching aftershave.
Brush: Semogue 830
Stones: 320 Shapton pro, 1k-6k Kings stone (overgraded), 8k Shapton pro, Imperia la roccia nat stone (a good one, i know some got bad ones, this one is good)
Strop: Illinois 127 (cheap 50 buck thing) with a linen+coton+leather combo
Razor: F.A. Clauberg Tensorial Gem 4/8 (on measurements) extra hollow


TL.DR Got screwed on ebay, new at shaving with straight razor, destroyed my face and think its the razor.

If anyone has tips or would feel comfortable with diagnosing my problem taking in acount everything i would be very happy.

Hi Benoit.
I'm sorry to read you had such a lousy experience.
If you are in Canada, contact the fine folks at classicedge.ca. Call them or email them, and they will set you up with a cost-effective straight razor that is properly honed.
You can find a good beginner razor for approximately $100.
Keep us posted of your progress.

 

[Dick peck]

Something to consider is a little more time on each stone . To shave arm hair it's at least somewhat sharp. I have had to start back at bevel a few times. I do lots of water on the king 1k . Maybe up to 200 laps sometimes . Then a couple hundred on the 6 . I know there are quicker stones out there but the king will do the job. Keep at it.

 

[Twelvefret]

Hello everyone,

The name's Benoit and i've been a lurker for awhile. A few months ago I convinced myself that i had enough of skin irritations after shaving and tried to find a solution. Straight razor shaving seemed like a great idea (and still is). So i started watching videos on honing, restorations, stroping, soaps, brushes you name it. So i did the leap 2 weeks ago, confident, and bought a whole set of garments i didn't already have to start shaving with a straight razor. I'm a chief butcher, been at it for 16 years now. I already had a cople stones and a good experience and knowledge about honing, learning straight razors wasn't too aliening. I chose all my things carefully as to not overdo it or underdo it quality wise. Didn't want to spend thousands or get garbage. So i started with the razor, and boy did i get screwed. I found on ebay a Joseph Allens and son non-xll medium grind, which is perfect for my type of beard from my understanding (WIDE beard, not very thick, but REALY strong hairs). And was sent some piece of junk. Tensorial gem 4/8 with damaged heel, straight tip and an uneven spine (angle not the same from one side to another). The thing cost me 12$ CA, and 36$ CA shipping so i just kept the piece of crap and told myself i would repair it and learn on it. So i put it on the 320 stone to repair the damage, then 1k, 5k, 8k, nat stone. The razor was sharp enough to shave my forearm with 2 buffs no pressure and dry. Came this morning, come out the shower, soaked my brush, built a lather (that i practiced making beforehand), put the blade on my face... couldn't shave for ****. I literally destroyed my face with that razor. I was very carefull with my angles, pressure but it just couldn't get trough the beard, and so i nicked my entire face and neck trying to plough trough it. Here's my gears:

Soap: Arianna and Evans - Grecian Horse and matching aftershave.
Brush: Semogue 830
Stones: 320 Shapton pro, 1k-6k Kings stone (overgraded), 8k Shapton pro, Imperia la roccia nat stone (a good one, i know some got bad ones, this one is good)
Strop: Illinois 127 (cheap 50 buck thing) with a linen+coton+leather combo
Razor: F.A. Clauberg Tensorial Gem 4/8 (on measurements) extra hollow


TL.DR Got screwed on ebay, new at shaving with straight razor, destroyed my face and think its the razor.

If anyone has tips or would feel comfortable with diagnosing my problem taking in acount everything i would be very happy.

I started with a Feather SS using Pro Guard blades a year ago. Since I knew the blades were sharp, any problems shaving I knew would be my technique.

I found buying shave ready no a guarantee that it would be shave ready for me. Therefore, it was best for me to learn to hone. A friend and mentor suggested a packet of 3m Lapping films from an eBay seller. This led to me honing a $12 vintage razor the first time and getting a nice shave. The whole film set up will cost less than $50 US.

I also have an Illinois strop. Mine is the #50 ($25 US). It has performed well. Later you can add diamond pastes balsa as a finishing touch at a cost of $17 US.

 

[Wallerwilly]

Thanks for your input everyone. I still believe the razor isn't meant for strong hairs, not in it's current condition at least. I've seen that case a few times while gathering informations on honing where some people wouldn't be able to shave with a worn down 5/8 honed by professionals. They moved to a medium ground 6/8 and up to get backbone to get through the extra thickness of the hair/beard. Some cuts were probably my technique i can assume that much.

My next foreseeable move i think is get a better razor 6/8 and up and work on my technique a bit. Also getting a razor with actual graded steel.

 

[aussie]

I'll reiterate in recommending starting with a razor honed by a reputable provider. That way, if your shave experience is bad, you'll know your shave technique rather than your honing technique is to blame. Start with shaving and stropping and once you master that, move onto honing.

The profile of the razor should not make much difference. My stubble is quite tough, and yet I get excellent shaves with both extra hollow ground and wedge profiles.

Once you have mastered the traditional SR, you might consider the shavette, which is a steeper learning curve on account of the blades being a solid order of magnitude more sharp.

 

[rudyt]

Bienvenue Benoit! Montreal?

Look, you're not from the planet Krypton, so any decent straight razor should be capable of shaving you, including your 4/8 Tonsorial Gem.

There are two immediate problems here. One is that your razor has a less than perfect edge because you have zero experience honing a straight. It's nothing like honing a butcher knife. I worked in an industrial leather factory for a long time and needed to hone my knife at least once a day - cutting 3/8" leather with a dull knife will guarantee you a slip and cut fingers. I can put a razor edge on a knife, and still can't get a perfect edge on my straights.

Second is that you have no experience shaving with a straight. It's not as simple as shaving with a DE razor or cartridge.

Now how do you move forward? Get your razor 4/8 honed professionally so you have a good foundation to learn on. Almost any vintage razor is not garbage and worth investing another $25 on. Should you get a 6/8 razor? Sure! It's nice to have variety.

There's a shop on Etsy called Sylver Steel that sells restored straights. If you message Sam directly, he offers "sight unseen" razors for under $40 shave ready, which he guarantees. They may have cosmetic issues, but are perfectly usable for decades. For about $60+ you can pick any specific razor he has photographs of. You can send him your straight, have him hone it, then save on shipping if you buy another razor from him. He ships to Canada for about $15.

If you're in Montreal, Marche au Puces St-Eustache often has straight razors in good restorable condition - I've never paid more than $10 for one. There's a guy in Longueuil who hones razors in front of you, and also sells restored straights. Not super cheap, but considering the exchange rate and postage, it's not that bad compared to buying from the US. I have no idea how good he is, but I know Sam Sylver is definitely good.

Most importantly, don't strop a professionally honed razor before using it.

Bonne chance!

 

[Wallerwilly]

Merci, and no i'm from the coasts. Thanks for your input and to have pointed me a few directions, i have sent a message to the said Sam Sylver in question.

And yeah i never took for granted that i knew all type of honing, hence why i spent hundreds of hours watching videos and reading on the subject. Inexperience on finishing stones may have had an effect on the result that i strongly agree. I may have badly stropped my razor (the 2 small nicks in my strop have a say about that ) Can making a nick in a strop really kill your edge?

 

[aussie]

Can making a nick in a strop really kill your edge?

No that shouldn't bother it. The edge is certainly delicate, but not as delicate as the edge of a DE blade.

 

[steveclarkus]

I must second @Twelvefret recommendation to use lapping film. Grits are very consistent and film is inexpensive and very easy to use. Honing a razor is much easier than honing a knife since the angle is built into the blade as you keep the spine on the home at all times and that establishes the bevel angle. Follow the instructions in this link and you will likely get a great edge on your first attempt - providing you follow the instructions precisely (no shortcuts).

Newbie Honing Compendium

 

[Wallerwilly]

I must second @Twelvefret recommendation to use lapping film. Grits are very consistent and film is inexpensive and very easy to use. Honing a razor is much easier than honing a knife since the angle is built into the blade as you keep the spine on the home at all times and that establishes the bevel angle. Follow the instructions in this link and you will likely get a great edge on your first attempt - providing you follow the instructions precisely (no shortcuts).

Newbie Honing Compendium

So yeah i didn't want to argue as i am a beginner and all that... but sharpening a razor as much as it alot less forgiving if you make a mistake, making mistake is really hard for anyone with some experience on stones and knowledge. I'm not puting my honing out of the equation, only doubt that it had THAT strong an effect.

As i said, the razor has ALOT of hone wear from previous owners, we're talking 1/5 of the metal gone. Add to that an unbalanced spine, a faulty grinding. I wish i had a camera good enough to show pictures of the profiling (front of the tip) Thus majorly messing up with the honing angle. I spent at least 30mins on each stones, did 80 laps on linen and 80 on leather. I wasn't rushing anything, i enjoy honing my filet knives and cleavers. If previous owner(s) had to remove that much meat the razor had an issue to begin with.

I am ordering a 13/16 Near wedge round tip honed by a reliable source. And also looking for a similar restorable blade i can hone and compare, or practice if i do indeed am as incapable as that razor was for my beard.

Thanks for the pointer for the films. And yes those guides are good i did read them a cople months back.

 

[steveclarkus]

Very good idea getting a different razor! No use frustrating yourself with an already botched blade. Maintenance should be a breeze for you.

 

[steveclarkus]

Very good idea getting a different razor! No use frustrating yourself with an already botched blade. Maintenance should be a breeze for you.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

It's not easy going from zero to straight razor shaving. I'm about 279 SR shaves into it and still learning a lot and still needing to learn even more.

To me the most important component is a truly sharp and comfortable edge. It's very hard to know what that means unless you've experienced one. Well, more than one, and more than once, but one to begin with.

Some razors aren't worth fooling with early on. If somebody's messed them up or if they were messed up when they left the factory fixing them is a job for a restoration specialist and is beyond what most of us who can hone should take on without consideration of the challenges. In my view it's enough of a challenge learning to shave with the SR. Adding learning honing to that makes it more difficult, but adding restoration on top of shaving and honing is beyond sensible.

A sharp razor should shave you just fine with the spine of the razor almost on your skin. Not on your skin, but very close to your skin. Many videos show far too much space between the skin and the spine. Not that it won't work but it's not ideal. A tell tale sign of a sharp razor is it will shave well and easily at a super shallow angle.

If the razor is not truly sharp you must either make it super sharp or find someone else to do the job. I've not used the guy on Etsy, but why not try him (or one of the others most of us know or have heard to be very good, so ask around).

As has been mentioned stropping is super important and done improperly can really screw up an edge.

It's worth learning to shave with the SR. Really it is. Persistence pays off.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Wallerwilly]

It's not easy going from zero to straight razor shaving. I'm about 279 SR shaves into it and still learning a lot and still needing to learn even more.

To me the most important component is a truly sharp and comfortable edge. It's very hard to know what that means unless you've experienced one. Well, more than one, and more than once, but one to begin with.

Some razors aren't worth fooling with early on. If somebody's messed them up or if they were messed up when they left the factory fixing them is a job for a restoration specialist and is beyond what most of us who can hone should take on without consideration of the challenges. In my view it's enough of a challenge learning to shave with the SR. Adding learning honing to that makes it more difficult, but adding restoration on top of shaving and honing is beyond sensible.

A sharp razor should shave you just fine with the spine of the razor almost on your skin. Not on your skin, but very close to your skin. Many videos show far too much space between the skin and the spine. Not that it won't work but it's not ideal. A tell tale sign of a sharp razor is it will shave well and easily at a super shallow angle.

If the razor is not truly sharp you must either make it super sharp or find someone else to do the job. I've not used the guy on Etsy, but why not try him (or one of the others most of us know or have heard to be very good, so ask around).

As has been mentioned stropping is super important and done improperly can really screw up an edge.

It's worth learning to shave with the SR. Really it is. Persistence pays off.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I couldn't agree more with you. I was overly confident in myself and took too much factors in a single go for a first time. So isolating the cause of that is hard.

The etsy guy is the one I ordered from. It will give me a reference point at least and work on my shaving technique with that blade. Work on my honing with the spare one I'm shopping for.

Stropping is something i do have to work on, i followed instructions from Razor Emporium and The Superior shave club. If you have any resources that might help me i'm all eyes and ears. The more information i can pool the better.


Thank you for your time,

Benoit.

 

[street]

Maybe Iḿ the exception but I had a great shave the first time I used a straight.
I became better but mostly faster in about a month.
I'ld buy a Gold Dollar for a few dollars .
Hone it to perfect sharpness and you are in business.

To get a good shave it really might help in the beginning to take a hot shower right before the shave.
it softeness things up and makes a hell of a difference.
Get a good shaving cream.My all time favorite is Speick shaving Cream.Cheap but very creamy.
Then very important is to stretch your skin .Stretch the hell out of it.It makes a big difference.
Also get the right angle.Get the angle that is the smallest but still shaves.That angle is also determined by the thickness of the blade.

If your technique is ok two passes should be enough.I get a babybutt smoothness with two passes.
If you do it right the whole procedure should not take more than 6 or 7 minutes.

Have fun.



Ps.
I forgot to mention.
Stretch your strop to the max when stropping.A limp strop will kill your edge.And lift before you take the blade from the strop to change direction.

 

[Wallerwilly]

Alright so here's an update of what i did, and what i learnt from it.

I purchased 3 additional razors, and lapping films.
1 razor was a george w. 6/8 Near wedge 1848, great steel. The seller who restored the steel also made a ''banana'' spine. I'm still trying to fix it many dozen hours later on 320 grit. The edge has a triple smile in it. But i learned alot on it.
2nd Razor is an Alfred Field co. which i had doubt about but was in pristine condition. 13/16 Hollow i estimate pre 1890 (hard to get a reference, only clue is a duck etch and Sheffield (no england)) Had a smile on the bevel, and learned rolling strokes to keep it that way. Actually good steel, shaved good. Not great, but good. And as i thought, hollow grind is just not for me. To cut hair it does exactly that and well. I just hate that senseation of it. I tried it both on my Imperia la rocca finisher and on the lapping films. Both are well, just... different.
3rd was the one i bought from Sam Sylversteel on etsy as a reference point. It's an early ''made for the army'' 7/8 Wedgy and oh man.... It went through this: 1k-3k-8k Naniwa SS 12k, Suehiro Gokumyo 20k and a jnat. That thing is a lazer, it's not a reference point, it's a goal. I could dry shave areas that would stop an electric razor if i came in too agressive. And the fact is... my honing isn't close, but not THAT far off. I'm considering the fact that my gears aren't satisfactory to my taste. I still need to learn mind you, but nowhere close to be the main issue.

So we come to compare 4 shaves, the initial shave i had a bad experience with. The 2 shaves from the AF co and the shave from the wedgy. First shave i was bleeding all over, it was uncomfortable, but i never had to apply medium pressure or more to cut, fact is my face wouldn't be still there if i did. 2nd Shave i was a lot less stressed, it was uncomfrotable but i didn't had stright cuts in my face. Only extreme blood doting. 3rd shave was the same as the 2nd, it cut better but when it came in the thick area it was alot less comfortable. 4th shave, the one i was looking for. To my great surprise, it was not as comfortable on the 3rd pass as i wanted it to. My neck was a raspbery. It was so red doted my 3rd aplication of 1/4 thick lather on my neck turned red quickly.

So here's what i learned: My honing needs a bit of work but it's good enough for shaving comfortably if the bigger issue wasn't there. My gears needs better finishing steps for my tastes. I dont like holow grinds, period. Ebay sellers are scammers. And the big reveal... I have an extreme case of ingrown hair. My skin is very elastic, i take care of it. That paired with very bold hairs makes it that it doesn't pierce the skin. So my first razor was actually destroying every lil lump on my skin that i never noticed before or knew they were there, and made me very anxious thus making mistakes paired with the pain i made straight cuts into my skin.

On a final note: I would highly recommend Sam's honing services. He will answer your questions, although not always quickly (may take a day). He has good selection of razors in his posession for sale. Do NOT buy his strop. The leather is so dry when i got it out of the box and stretched it, the fibers died and now the strop has lil ridges on it's full length.

Now, to find a jnat for my needs...

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

When stropping it's okay to go slow.

Strop a whole lot slower than the people making videos usually strop. Go slow and watch what you're doing. The main thing is keeping the spine on the strop throughout the stroke. Learn to hear what's going on at the edge. Learn the feel. It takes a while to become excellent at stropping but your first goal is to learn competency.

Well, actually your first goal it to not totally mess up any sharp edges you have.

Straight razor shaving is worth it, at least to me it is, but the learning curve is long.

Some people say they make short work of SR mastery. I don't believe them. Not that basic competence can't be achieve within about a hundred shaves assuming a truly sharp razor to begin with and throughout.

Having only razors which are not truly sharp greatly retards the learning process. It's very easy to dull a sharp razor until you learn the tricks to help you avoid dulling the edge. Much of this is just practice and trial and error.

Yes, I said error. All of us are bound to make many mistakes learning to shave with the straight. There is a great deal to master. Much which seems like it should be and will be easy turns out to be frustrating, difficult, seemingly impossible.

I'm close to 300 shaves into the straight. Still a beginner. I'm far from where I know I'll be in another year of straight razor shaving (and honing). Hopefully, I'll still have Beginner's Mind in ten or fifteen or twenty years. I don't want to become complacent with the straight razor.

People have told me most who begin with the straight razor (or move to the straight from safety razors) never complete the first hundred shaves (which is the minimum number of shaves required to say you've given the SR a good shot). It makes sense to me to say that the main requirement when it comes to learning the SR is that you are persistent (being stubborn tenacious helps too).

The first goal (I think) with actual straight razor shaving is to achieve a Damn Comfortable Shave. That means just comfortable and not close and not smooth. Comfortable.

A very well hydrated lather helps.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[street]

I have about 3000 straight shaves done over the last 7 or 8 years.
I mastered the technique pretty much in 30 shaves.It isn't rocket science.