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- #161
My "Ah-Ha!" Moments
- Thread starter gpjoe
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #162
Well, two things happened:
1. My second Ebay Tech arrived yesterday.
2. My wife went to work, freeing up my "laboratory", AKA, her kitchen.
What's that old saying? Better to ask forgiveness than permission? Something like that.
So, today, I chucked a Dremel cutoff wheel into my buffing motor, and went to work, removing the necessary (unnecessary? ) material from the old Tech to transform it into a SE razor.
This was the aftermath:
Note the bits of base plate and cap. The nut was used to hold the cap and base plate together during the operation.
I also used the small grinding stone to kind of smooth things out.
After getting over the fear of destroying the razor, the easy part was done.
With the bulk of the material removed, I grabbed a glass plate and began lapping the rough edges of my project. I used a progression starting with 220 grit, and finished with 2500. This was that scene. You can see the plate in the foreground.
After about an hour, with some back-tracking to lower grits to even things out, I polished the resulting razor head on my buffing wheel.
My intention going in to this was to re-plate the parts in nickel, but now I'm not sure. The Gillette logo, though worn, looks kinda cool. So here it is, what may be the world's first SE Tech, on a Razorock Vintage Thin Bar handle:
1. My second Ebay Tech arrived yesterday.
2. My wife went to work, freeing up my "laboratory", AKA, her kitchen.
What's that old saying? Better to ask forgiveness than permission? Something like that.
So, today, I chucked a Dremel cutoff wheel into my buffing motor, and went to work, removing the necessary (unnecessary? ) material from the old Tech to transform it into a SE razor.
This was the aftermath:
Note the bits of base plate and cap. The nut was used to hold the cap and base plate together during the operation.
I also used the small grinding stone to kind of smooth things out.
After getting over the fear of destroying the razor, the easy part was done.
With the bulk of the material removed, I grabbed a glass plate and began lapping the rough edges of my project. I used a progression starting with 220 grit, and finished with 2500. This was that scene. You can see the plate in the foreground.
After about an hour, with some back-tracking to lower grits to even things out, I polished the resulting razor head on my buffing wheel.
My intention going in to this was to re-plate the parts in nickel, but now I'm not sure. The Gillette logo, though worn, looks kinda cool. So here it is, what may be the world's first SE Tech, on a Razorock Vintage Thin Bar handle:
That is so cool! It will be interesting to hear how this works out! I will be following with interest. Thank you for sharing .Well, two things happened:
1. My second Ebay Tech arrived yesterday.
2. My wife went to work, freeing up my "laboratory", AKA, her kitchen.
What's that old saying? Better to ask forgiveness than permission? Something like that.
So, today, I chucked a Dremel cutoff wheel into my buffing motor, and went to work, removing the necessary (unnecessary? ) material from the old Tech to transform it into a SE razor.
This was the aftermath:
View attachment 1799923
Note the bits of base plate and cap. The nut was used to hold the cap and base plate together during the operation.
I also used the small grinding stone to kind of smooth things out.
After getting over the fear of destroying the razor, the easy part was done.
With the bulk of the material removed, I grabbed a glass plate and began lapping the rough edges of my project. I used a progression starting with 220 grit, and finished with 2500. This was that scene. You can see the plate in the foreground.
View attachment 1799925
After about an hour, with some back-tracking to lower grits to even things out, I polished the resulting razor head on my buffing wheel.
My intention going in to this was to re-plate the parts in nickel, but now I'm not sure. The Gillette logo, though worn, looks kinda cool. So here it is, what may be the world's first SE Tech, on a Razorock Vintage Thin Bar handle:
- Thread starter
- #164
Thanks!
I've been looking for the "perfect" SE for head shaving, and love Techs, so this idea was born of that.
I expect it will shave exactly like that which it is, a Tech, but I've never used one on my head, so it may be a bit of an adventure.
Looks great!! I bet it works as well as it looks!
Well, two things happened:
1. My second Ebay Tech arrived yesterday.
2. My wife went to work, freeing up my "laboratory", AKA, her kitchen.
What's that old saying? Better to ask forgiveness than permission? Something like that.
So, today, I chucked a Dremel cutoff wheel into my buffing motor, and went to work, removing the necessary (unnecessary? ) material from the old Tech to transform it into a SE razor.
This was the aftermath:
View attachment 1799923
Note the bits of base plate and cap. The nut was used to hold the cap and base plate together during the operation.
I also used the small grinding stone to kind of smooth things out.
After getting over the fear of destroying the razor, the easy part was done.
With the bulk of the material removed, I grabbed a glass plate and began lapping the rough edges of my project. I used a progression starting with 220 grit, and finished with 2500. This was that scene. You can see the plate in the foreground.
View attachment 1799925
After about an hour, with some back-tracking to lower grits to even things out, I polished the resulting razor head on my buffing wheel.
My intention going in to this was to re-plate the parts in nickel, but now I'm not sure. The Gillette logo, though worn, looks kinda cool. So here it is, what may be the world's first SE Tech, on a Razorock Vintage Thin Bar handle:
WOW!! This is awesome! And so inspired!
Fantastic work here
So this thread gave me the confidence to attempt re-plating myself, in fact it's inspired me to buy a bunch of junk razors to play around with restoring. Anyhow, a few questions in no specific order. Do you heat your nickel solution? I've been warming it up by sticking it in my heated ultrasonic cleaner for a while before I start plating, I'm hesitant to stick it in the microwave where we cook food just out of paranoia. I've also got a heated magnetic stirrer coming today that should cut that step out, although that means I also needed to get a legit beaker that can go on the hot plate rather than just a mason jar.
Are you still copper plating before nickel plating? The first razor I attempted was a super speed that I did not disassemble, and I am still struggling to get the knurling to 'take' the nickel. I'm going to get back around to that one and try it again though, I'm afraid I may have screwed it up in various ways. There may have been some polish in the knurling that I didn't fully remove even though I ran it through the ultrasonic cleaner, I was not meticulous in wiping it down before the plating attempt. I will probably also disassemble it next time around and I feel like this might give me more control over the process.
I can't remember back to the beginning if you said if you are 'pickling' them first in diluted hydrochloric acid. I've seen some videos saying to do this and others seem to skip it. That leads me to, electrolytic cleaning, I've been thinking about adding this and it's not clear to me what steps that might replace. Currently I run everything through the ultrasonic cleaner, wipe them down with alcohol, or sometimes brake cleaner, rinse, pickle in the acid for a minute or two, rinse, and then into the plating solution. It seems that electrolytic cleaning might replace both of those steps? I don't know, I'm a beginner here too.
Another problem I've run into is sometimes the plating comes out 'cloudy' or I guess it could be described as 'milky.' I'm not sure what is causing this, today I did the t-bar and doors of another super speed (disassembled) for about 10 mins at 3 volts 500ma (bench power supply like you are using) and it came out nice, still had the mirror finish I had when I prepped them, however the very edges of the doors were still showing a little brass. So I polished them up gently and went through the process again, did another 5 mins or so and they came out slightly cloudy...which I was able to polish out and I'm fairly happy with the end result.
BTW I watched a video that Chris from Back Roads Gold posted on youtube of his process, and he is not a believer in fully stripping the old nickel first, so I have not been worrying about that either and everything seems to be fine. I do worry about the consistency of the finish though, as it would seem the bits of nickel I leave in place will get thicker than the bare brass.
Are you still copper plating before nickel plating? The first razor I attempted was a super speed that I did not disassemble, and I am still struggling to get the knurling to 'take' the nickel. I'm going to get back around to that one and try it again though, I'm afraid I may have screwed it up in various ways. There may have been some polish in the knurling that I didn't fully remove even though I ran it through the ultrasonic cleaner, I was not meticulous in wiping it down before the plating attempt. I will probably also disassemble it next time around and I feel like this might give me more control over the process.
I can't remember back to the beginning if you said if you are 'pickling' them first in diluted hydrochloric acid. I've seen some videos saying to do this and others seem to skip it. That leads me to, electrolytic cleaning, I've been thinking about adding this and it's not clear to me what steps that might replace. Currently I run everything through the ultrasonic cleaner, wipe them down with alcohol, or sometimes brake cleaner, rinse, pickle in the acid for a minute or two, rinse, and then into the plating solution. It seems that electrolytic cleaning might replace both of those steps? I don't know, I'm a beginner here too.
Another problem I've run into is sometimes the plating comes out 'cloudy' or I guess it could be described as 'milky.' I'm not sure what is causing this, today I did the t-bar and doors of another super speed (disassembled) for about 10 mins at 3 volts 500ma (bench power supply like you are using) and it came out nice, still had the mirror finish I had when I prepped them, however the very edges of the doors were still showing a little brass. So I polished them up gently and went through the process again, did another 5 mins or so and they came out slightly cloudy...which I was able to polish out and I'm fairly happy with the end result.
BTW I watched a video that Chris from Back Roads Gold posted on youtube of his process, and he is not a believer in fully stripping the old nickel first, so I have not been worrying about that either and everything seems to be fine. I do worry about the consistency of the finish though, as it would seem the bits of nickel I leave in place will get thicker than the bare brass.
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- #169
Welcome to the show.
The first few times I tried plating with nickel I heated the solution in a pan of water on the stove with the burner on low. I don’t see any difference in the results of the plating when using the solution at room temperature.
If your results are better with heat, I would love to hear about your process.
The knurling on handles has been my bane. I've come to the conclusion that my prep wasn't quite up to snuff, and my last couple of handles are better. There is more info in one of the previous posts. I have never plated in copper and then plated over in nickel. I just read a thread somewhere else where a member sent a razor to Chris at Back Roads Gold that had previously been re-plated by Razor Emporium. As I recall, Chris explained that the nickel plating had failed precisely because the razor had been plated in copper first. It is my understanding that it is perfectly sound practice to plate directly onto the stripped and cleaned brass.
I don't use acid. I'm working in the Boss's kitchen and don't want any volatile or caustic solutions causing damage...especially 'cause I'm the one fixing, or paying for, any damage.
Sometimes I use my stirrer, which is un-heated, sometimes I don't. For example, if I'm plating a cap, I'll just position the top towards the donor (nickel stock connected to positive lead) and gently swirl the cap in a circular motion, but with the top of the cap ALWAYS facing the donor stock. I figure the top is the "money" side and more important than the underside, which still gets plated.
I'm wondering if the stirrer would have helped with your Superspeed?
Cloudy happens. It's disappointing and sometimes polishes up OK, but sometimes requires a do-over. I've been there, and can't offer any wisdom on avoiding it, sorry. I think it's one of those things that comes with experience - knowing what voltage and current to use for the mass/area of the coverage. I'm pretty much doing all of my plating now at 5v and 1a and it seems to be working well.
I only strip fully on the caps of three-piece razors because, even though it require more prep, it results in a much smoother and consistent finish. If I leave a patch (even the thinnest layer) of the old nickel on the cap I can see it once the cap is re-plated, regardless of how smooth it appears after prep (sanding/polishing) and before plating.
Anyway, not sure how much that helps.
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- #170
Yep, I struggle with the knurling as well.
The last two I did were Tech handles that I prepped using fibrous sanding wheels (again, previous post) which seemed to help. I plated the handles at 5v 1a and got pretty good coverage, with no signs of brass showing through.
So I have been doing my plating in the garage, the other day it was about 20F outside so I was afraid some of my clouding was coming from the temperature. Or more specifically the temperature difference between the plating solution, the air temp, the rinse water temp, etc. The doors were fogging up a bit like when you breath on something in the cold, so I got paranoid that that was the cause of my cloudy plating. Which led to the purchase of the heated stirrer which I haven't tried yet. I've also read on various sites that the optimal temp for nickel plating solution is 120F-140F, not sure how true that is, your experience at room temp seems to say otherwise.
I've actually been using a non heated stirrer since I started, that was one little thing I picked up from you. I also noticed in Chris's video that he uses them as well so I think the magnetic stirrer is probably beneficial in some way.
So trying to compare notes and summarize, I think we can say copper plating first is not necessary and may be detrimental. Preparation is absolutely crucial, we know that too. Acid etching may not matter.
I'm still learning as far as the polishing and preparation process as well. I'm using a 6 inch buffing wheel setup from harbor freight, right now using a stiffer cotton wheel with tripoli compound and a softer cotton wheel with green compound. Then I'm also messing with a dremel with either felt wheels or these little compressed cone looking things and Mothers wheel polish, or sometimes Flitz liquid but I think the Mothers works better. When I've needed to do a little heavier resurfacing, I've got the dremel abrasive wheels like you mentioned, or I'll hit things with some regular sandpaper and then work my way up in the abrasive wheels from 120, 180, 320, 400, 600 and then 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 sandpaper, then the tripoli compound, then the green compound. Or Mothers and the dremel.
I don't mean to hijack your thread, just trying to share information and this may even inspire others to play around.
I've actually been using a non heated stirrer since I started, that was one little thing I picked up from you. I also noticed in Chris's video that he uses them as well so I think the magnetic stirrer is probably beneficial in some way.
So trying to compare notes and summarize, I think we can say copper plating first is not necessary and may be detrimental. Preparation is absolutely crucial, we know that too. Acid etching may not matter.
I'm still learning as far as the polishing and preparation process as well. I'm using a 6 inch buffing wheel setup from harbor freight, right now using a stiffer cotton wheel with tripoli compound and a softer cotton wheel with green compound. Then I'm also messing with a dremel with either felt wheels or these little compressed cone looking things and Mothers wheel polish, or sometimes Flitz liquid but I think the Mothers works better. When I've needed to do a little heavier resurfacing, I've got the dremel abrasive wheels like you mentioned, or I'll hit things with some regular sandpaper and then work my way up in the abrasive wheels from 120, 180, 320, 400, 600 and then 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 sandpaper, then the tripoli compound, then the green compound. Or Mothers and the dremel.
I don't mean to hijack your thread, just trying to share information and this may even inspire others to play around.
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- #172
First of all, I don't mind one iota. Pretty cool that my rambling inspired you to take a shot at plating. In fact, I encourage you to post some updates, as I'm sure I could learn a thing or two.
I'm using solution at room temperature, which in the winter is 68F. It certainly can't hurt to warm up the solution, and if Chris is doing that, it's very likely beneficial to the process.
And the stirrer does agitate the nickel molecules to promote even coverage. I use mine when even coverage is critical, as with handles or parts with nooks and crannies, like base plates, especially open comb with the spaces between the teeth.
Prep is critically important, as you are finding out.
Smooth, shiny, and clean surfaces produce smooth shiny plating, and no amount of buffing will correct a surface that wasn't prepared or cleaned properly.
I believe that was at least partly my problem with knurling. I wasn't completely removing the old plating, and lacquer from the grooves and knurling. Those small sanding wheels seem to have helped.
After I'm done sanding and polishing, all I do is dip a toothbrush into a soap solution (bought on Amazon, described as "buffing compound remover", which I diluted with distilled water) and vigorously scrub the part. I rinse, dry, and go directly to plating.
Here's my latest handle, and I'm pleased with the outcome. Note that this handle was gold, and still had lacquer in the grooves near the ball end and top ferrule:
This is the cleaner I use, which I diluted with distilled water:
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- #173
One more thing I did on the above handle was to sand the grooves with fine sandpaper to make sure I got all of the lacquer.
My 4" buffing wheel has a drill chuck on the right spindle. I found a long screw that matches the standard handle threads and cut off the head. I screw one end into the handle and chuck the other end of the screw onto my buffer. With the handle spinning at low speed in the buffer chuck I can get into the grooves with a folded piece of sandpaper to clean up anything hiding there.
My 4" buffing wheel has a drill chuck on the right spindle. I found a long screw that matches the standard handle threads and cut off the head. I screw one end into the handle and chuck the other end of the screw onto my buffer. With the handle spinning at low speed in the buffer chuck I can get into the grooves with a folded piece of sandpaper to clean up anything hiding there.
This is Chris's video that I've mentioned, I definitely gleaned a few things from it, I'll probably re-watch it a few more times also to see if I can pick up any other little tips or techniques. He certainly makes it look easy and he does either gloss over a few things or leaves them out since they might be part of his secret sauce which I totally understand. I'm certainly not looking to get into the business, this is just a fun little hobby to see what I can accomplish on my own and gives something semi productive to do. He has some other videos posted too that I have yet to dig through.
Gillette Super Speed A3 1955 Flare Tip Replating Process For Alex's Razor
Have you tried to do a matte or brushed type finish? I very very quickly tried that today on this Gem Featherweight I got...it had some plating loss and I started sanding it down a bit and there's a bigger ding in it than I thought I could sand out so I decided to not even try for a mirror finish and instead I only went as far as the 600 grit abrasive wheel.
It's pretty rough, this was basically an afterthought but I had everything setup so I decided at the last minute to throw it in and see if I could touch up the areas that had plate loss/wear. My goal here was more or less just to see how it would come out not being totally polished. Looking at it up close now, it looks pretty bad here but the large middle section was down to the bare brass before I replated, in person it's tolerable. Lots of little pock marks still there, I got lazy and didn't want to spend a lot of time trying to make it perfect because it's kind of a beater anyway, but maybe I'll give it another go at some point.
Yeah I'm fairly certain my prep was lacking on that SS handle, I did another ball end razor (I'm a newb here so I'm actually not 100% certain which model it is but it's old enough that it's open comb) and that one came out much better. Next time I set everything up I'm going to give the SS another shot, possibly with it disassembled so I can focus on the handle/base plate alone.
That looks awesome, that came out really nice. I'm going to try a few different things next time I throw that SS handle in, probably going to up the current to 1A like you said and going to be absolutely certain all the compound is off it. I'm also going to be a little more conscious of how I hook the copper wire up to it, last time I was just looping it through the head so maybe it wasn't conducting as well as it could have all the way down through the handle.
Don't see it available on Amazon anymore, I'll keep an eye out for it. Theoretically the ultrasonic cleaner should take care of it as well, I mainly use distilled water + dawn dish soap in it, maybe I just didn't soak it long enough and/or run the cleaning long enough to get all of the compound out of the crevices. As you know, there's a ton of variables. Another thing I know I need to do is be a bit more patient, I end up running back and forth between polishing things and re-plating them.
I don't have the intestinal fortitude to try plating but I am looking at benchtop polishing machines. My little Dremel is a bit difficult to use so I'm thinking about this one:
Thoughts? There are several less expensive ones... but not much less. If you have a bench polisher you like, I'm open to any and all suggestions.
Thx.
Thoughts? There are several less expensive ones... but not much less. If you have a bench polisher you like, I'm open to any and all suggestions.
Thx.
If you wanted to go much cheaper, I got a set of polishing wheels for a drill. Then I just put my drill in a vice and use that to polish. I've only done a few things, but it works well enough.
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- #177
I bought this one, 4" variable speed.
It cost less, and comes with two spindles for wheels, and a drill chuck. I have mine set up with a wheel on the left, and the chuck on the right, so I can use Dremel bits/wheels/etc in the chuck.
I also have additional 4" buffing wheels mounted to arbors that I can use in the chuck and swap easily, rather than changing out the chuck for the right spindle.
It seems to work fine for my occasional light duty requirements. I also use it to buff carnuba wax on my smoking pipes.
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- Thread starter
- #178
I've never done a brushed finish, but one way to even up the finish is to rub it lightly with a Scotch Brite pad after you plate.
I used to do that to remove the swirls from the clasps on my brushed stainless steel watch bracelets. It works well if you carefully rub the part in one direction.
Regarding the "buffing compound remover": It very well may be some glorified dish soap only purchased by suckers, so maybe you're better off without it.
I had looked at that one and liked it... I do like the variable speed... and the chuck. I'm still unsure I really need one as I only have a couple razors that would benefit from it...two brass razors... but I do hand polish my 5 bronze razors from time to time and it would be a lot faster with a benchtop buffer.
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- #180
I like mine, especially the convenience of being able to swap wheels and Dremel accessories by using the chuck, though it is only 4" while the buffer you linked to is 6" and probably has a more powerful motor.
Still, as a hobby buffer used for light duty, including polishing your razors, I think the 4" would work fine.
