My 1st Honing.My face wishes it would be my last!

[jard011]

Hope you guys with experience can lend a hand...or rather some wisdom!

I want to hone my own razors...being self-sufficient is important to me, especially as I am in the military and when I deploy I would like to have the ability to maintain my own edges. This is my current setup.

Norton 220/1k
Norton 4k/8k
Chinese 12k
Balsa Bench Hone with ChOxide
Norton lapping plate

I know that there are "better" fancier stones out there, and eventually plan to buy some, but I would like to be proficient with what I have before I go buy more. The only change I am making to the current setup is I have already ordered a DMT plate after spending about 6 hours lapping my new stones with that confounded Norton lapping plate.

I watched every youTube video I could find on honing and finally decided to try Lynn Abrams circle honing method...he makes it look so easy .

Here is what I did:
I purchased an ebay razor with what appeared to be a blade in decent shape for $18 ($20 shipped) for practice. I have my recently purchased Dovo from Vintage LLC (honed by Lynn Abrams) for a baseline comparison.

Bevel Setting:
On the 1K side - 40 circle strokes each side, firm pressure; 15 X-strokes each side firm pressure. Felt like a dull butter knife after this, so repeated 2x until it began to "grab" the pad of my thumb. I noticed one side of the blade seemed "grabier" (is that a word?) than the other side of the blade.

Honing:
On the 4k side - 40 circle strokes each side, firm pressure; 40 strokes each side NO pressure; 10 X-strokes NO pressure. Didn't feel any different after this so repeated the procedure. After exactly repeating the 4k side already listed, I then went to 12 X-strokes on the 8K side NO pressure; 7 strokes on the Balsa with ChOx, then took it to the strop: 50 passes on the linen and 100 passes on the leather.

After all of this, the blade still did not grab at the hairs on my arm as I passed the blade through them (with no skin contact); however, I could cut the hairs on my arm with blade-to-skin contact (is this making any sense?)

Anyway, being the kind of person who has to see things all the way through, I decided I would give it a shave to see how close it was. It did "shave"...I'd say similar to what you might expect from an old bread knife you found buried in a field somewhere. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but it burned my neck quite a bit and can't come close to my professionally honed blade.

So how do you get good at honing when all you have are videos to watch? How am I sure I'm using the proper blade angle; the proper pressure to the stone; how do I know what feedback should feel like between a GOOD stroke vs. a BAD one???? How do I get good at this when there is no one around to teach me???? AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!

Your feedback is appreciated!

My eBay razor after my attempted honing:

 

[jpcwon]

Hey man, it sounds like you're on the right track...if I had to guess, I would probably have to suspect that your bevel might not be set. Lynn's method is great and all, but in my experience setting the bevel takes more work than that. I too learned to hone from his videos, and drove myself crazy for a while because I could not get a good edge!

As time went on, I found out that I was not seeing the bevel set all the way through to the end. You REALLY have to stay on the 1k stone until that bevel is ALL the way set...Not kinda set, not almost set...ALL the way set...The fact that one side grabbed your thumb pad more than the other is an indicator that it may not have been set...

I would try again, making sure that you keep in mind that bevel setting is the most important step.. the rest tends to fall into place after that (not saying it doesn't take practice, but your life will be a lot easier if the bevel is set all the way!!)

Hope this helps and let us know how it goes...we're here to help!!

 

[rockviper]

You're not alone. I'm struggling as well with (amongst other things), the differences between firm, some, light and no pressure when honing.

 

[Bird_Flu]

So I'll say first of all I'm a honing newbie as well and I always move onto the next step in the progression way too early. That having been said your bevel wasn't properly set. It should "tree-top" arm hair after bevel setting the rest is polishing. You get the bulk of your sharpness from the 1K level or whatever you use for bevel setting. In your case since the razor isn't all knicked up along the edge you're fine bevel setting at 1K, use the 220 side only for seriously screwed up blades. So keep going on the 1K until you can tree-top arm hair. Again I always try to rush this and get crap shaves because of it. Keep going until you start to tree-top along the length of the blade. I'll let the other honing experts on here lend some more sound advice but from what I've read the bevel set is where it's at in terms of sharpness.

 

[buca3152]

Circle honing is a good method IMO. I would tell a new honer to stay on the 1k until it cuts arm hair along the entire edge. Forget the 4,8 etc. Keep going as this is the foundation of the edge. There are a few ways to test, thumbnail test, visual with magnification, arm hair test. When you think the bevel is set, then lather up and take a pass on your cheek, it should cut all the hair for that pass. The shaving stroke will feel rough but it should cut. If it doesn't go back to the 1k until it does. Then the rest is easy once the bevel is set.

 

[jard011]

I love this site. Already something new to try! I Must have rushed thebevel setting. I didn't want to over hone so I guess I under-did it. I'll give it a break for a couple days and try again. Anyone have recommendations for methods to get a good bevel? Any reason NOT to use the circle method?

Oh yeah, will that little 1/2" inch blade be any more difficult than a 5/8 or 6/8?

 

[professorchaos]

Before trying one off techniques, start with the tried and true.

1. Hone on the 1K, straight strokes back and forth, until the edge really passes the TNT. If you aren't sure that it does, keep honing. I do groups of 20 laps until it does.
2. Onto the 4K. Straight strokes back and forth until the edge begins to undercut the water rather than push it ahead. Once it does, do 10 more laps.
3. Repeat step #2 on the 8K
4. I haven't used a C12K in years. When I was using one, it took 150-200 laps to get the job done.
5. Up to but no more than 15 laps on the CrOx. (When I used it on balsa, more laps caused problems).

 

[jard011]

Before trying one off techniques, start with the tried and true.

1. Hone on the 1K, straight strokes back and forth, until the edge really passes the TNT. If you aren't sure that it does, keep honing. I do groups of 20 laps until it does.
2. Onto the 4K. Straight strokes back and forth until the edge begins to undercut the water rather than push it ahead. Once it does, do 10 more laps.
3. Repeat step #2 on the 8K
4. I haven't used a C12K in years. When I was using one, it took 150-200 laps to get the job done.
5. Up to but no more than 15 laps on the CrOx. (When I used it on balsa, more laps caused problems).

I was thinking maybe I should try a more "traditional" method...this looks like a pretty good one to try. Pardon my ignorance, but what's the TNT test?

 

[AjaxLepinski]

Honing is a craft that takes practice. It's all about teasing the edge out, not counting out the number of laps.
The counting methods give you a good idea of how long you need to spend on each grit level but, the variables involved prevent counting systems from being 100% effective.
Steel hardness, bevel to edge geometry and the efficiency of your honing substrate (stones/film) all interact in different ways preventing counting systems from being 100% effective.

First thing I would like to suggest is to get a 60x loupe like this one: http://www.amazon.com/30X-AND-60X-LE...=60x+magnifier
Anything under 60x won't be powerful enough to let you know when it's time to move to the next grit level.

The next thing I would like to suggest is to read this thread: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...ic-Progression
It will tell you what you are looking at with your 60x loupe. DE and Str8 shaving is all about beard reduction, after bevel setting, honing is all about reducing the roughness from the edge (aka, refining the edge).
After a while, you will be able to see when it is time to move from one grit level to the next and when it is time to strop - no need to shave all your arm hair off!!! )

Honing on stones took me several months to learn. If you want to shorten your learning curve, read this thread: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...ng-film-try-it
I use film regularly to maintain my razors - I love my rocks but, film is just a lot easier to use especially for routine maintenance and for people new to honing.

I hope this helps and have fun!!!

 

[jrp316]

Don't count laps. There's no set number of laps for each stage of honing; the razor should stay at its present honing stage until it is ready to move on. That could be as little as 20 laps...or it could be 100 laps or more. The only time I would recommend counting laps is to decide when you want to test the edge at a certain point (i.e., check bevel set every 20 laps).

How do you get good at honing? Simple. You hone. Very much. Very often. It's essentially a practice craft. The more you practice, the better you get. If you had someone experienced enough to teach you in person, you'd get pretty good a bit quicker, but most of us don't have someone local enough to visit to learn. The videos and advice posts on here and other boards are often the best we can do. Your first edges will likely not be so stellar. You'll probably hone multiple razors (or the same one multiple times) before you start getting good, consistent edges.

It sounds like you've got a pretty good honing kit from start to finish, although the Chinese 12k is known to be a slow cutting finisher. You'll be looking at numerous laps on that little puppy.

When you go to hone on your stones, they should be as flat as possible. Sometimes, even the Norton lapping stone isn't flat itself (or gets out of flatness after being used a few times)...imagine that! A DMT is a good way to go though, so you're on the right track there. Me, I'm a lapping film guy, so I don't have to worry about it

Before you advance from the 1k, the bevel must be set 100%. When you think it's set, it probably isn't. When you believe strongly that it's set, it probably still isn't. When you'd swear on a stack of 'Interpretive Dance Quarterlies' that it's set, then you're ready. A good way to know that the bevel is set is when you can float the razor above your arm or leg hair and have it popping hair effortlessly. If the edge can just contact the hair and it immediately pops, then it's ready. Make sure it does this all the way across the edge from heel to toe. The rest of the honing process is pie compared to this, but this part is the most important.

The honing angle is set by the spine resting on the hone; the blade was engineered and made to be honed this way, so you don't have to worry about it. Pressure is generally the weight of the blade on the hone, little more than that if anything. If pressure is used, no more than what you'd use on a pencil eraser. Even that level of pressure is only for edge repair or bevel setting when steel needs to be removed in quantity. When you're in the finishing stages, weight of the blade only. A good stroke should glide across the stone with no catching, grabbing or acoustic changes. If you lift the spine toward the edge, you'll feel the blade try to dig into the hone. If you lift the edge on a stroke, you'll hear an acoustic change, like a grating sound. When that happens, you'll probably have to go back to the previous honing grit to work it out. Keep your elbow parallel to the hone, don't lift the spine and you'll be fine.

 

[kelebekcc]

Thumb Nail Test
http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Honing#TNT

I was thinking maybe I should try a more "traditional" method...this looks like a pretty good one to try. Pardon my ignorance, but what's the TNT test?

 

[jard011]

Thumb Nail Test
http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Honing#TNT

LOL...I knew that...just couldn't recognize the acronym! Thanks!

 

[rockviper]

......
Before you advance from the 1k, the bevel must be set 100%. When you think it's set, it probably isn't. When you believe strongly that it's set, it probably still isn't. When you'd swear on a stack of 'Interpretive Dance Quarterlies' that it's set, then you're ready. A good way to know that the bevel is set is when you can float the razor above your arm or leg hair and have it popping hair effortlessly. If the edge can just contact the hair and it immediately pops, then it's ready. Make sure it does this all the way across the edge from heel to toe. The rest of the honing process is pie compared to this, but this part is the most important.

The honing angle is set by the spine resting on the hone; the blade was engineered and made to be honed this way, so you don't have to worry about it. Pressure is generally the weight of the blade on the hone, little more than that if anything. If pressure is used, no more than what you'd use on a pencil eraser. Even that level of pressure is only for edge repair or bevel setting when steel needs to be removed in quantity. When you're in the finishing stages, weight of the blade only. A good stroke should glide across the stone with no catching, grabbing or acoustic changes. If you lift the spine toward the edge, you'll feel the blade try to dig into the hone. If you lift the edge on a stroke, you'll hear an acoustic change, like a grating sound. When that happens, you'll probably have to go back to the previous honing grit to work it out. Keep your elbow parallel to the hone, don't lift the spine and you'll be fine.

I think you've identified my problems.
BEVEL - I think the bevel is set as it is shaving, but not tree-topping hairs.
STROKE - I hear the sound change sometimes, but don't regress my honing.

Thanks a bunch. Practice, practice, practice I guess.

 

[rickboone1]

You will get advice all over the spectrum here. Some great. Some not. Some even contradictory. Professor has it.

My advice will elaborate on his....

Put away everything but that 1k for now. Bevel set like a mutha for a stride. Set the bevel. Don't do any glass dulling crap, just set it again. You ain't gonna hurt that metal.

Coming off the 1k you should be easily cutting arm hair. No pull. No hesitation.

After your 1k, strop and shave. Try it. It won't be the smoothest but I do know it will surprise you at how well it does do.

Throw the CrOx out. Unless you like harsh edges.

 

[jard011]

The honing angle is set by the spine resting on the hone; the blade was engineered and made to be honed this way, so you don't have to worry about it. Pressure is generally the weight of the blade on the hone, little more than that if anything. If pressure is used, no more than what you'd use on a pencil eraser. Even that level of pressure is only for edge repair or bevel setting when steel needs to be removed in quantity. When you're in the finishing stages, weight of the blade only. A good stroke should glide across the stone with no catching, grabbing or acoustic changes. If you lift the spine toward the edge, you'll feel the blade try to dig into the hone. If you lift the edge on a stroke, you'll hear an acoustic change, like a grating sound. When that happens, you'll probably have to go back to the previous honing grit to work it out. Keep your elbow parallel to the hone, don't lift the spine and you'll be fine.

Thank you! You probably just put me a week ahead with just that simple bit...while honing there were times I noticed the blade "grab" the stone...I was wondering if that is what I am supposed to feel. Now I know I was accidentally lifting the spine. Heard the "grating" too...wasn't sure what it was. Great tips!!!

 

[jard011]

You will get advice all over the spectrum here. Some great. Some not. Some even contradictory. Professor has it.

My advice will elaborate on his....

Put away everything but that 1k for now.

I like that. I tend to put everything out in front of me and the temptation is then to use it... my next session will be in front of the 1k only. Good advice. I will take it to heart!

 

[rockviper]

... me too!
but my JNat and nagura are just sooo pretty I guess that's sort of like a new driver buying a Ferrari

 

[jrp316]

Throw the CrOx out. Unless you like harsh edges.

+1 for this. I traded the CrOx for lather on my 1 micron film (~12k grit equivalent) and it made a world of difference for me. My edges have graduated from mediocre to marginal with that step alone

 

[California Cajun]

Hope you guys with experience can lend a hand...or rather some wisdom!

I want to hone my own razors...being self-sufficient is important to me, especially as I am in the military and when I deploy I would like to have the ability to maintain my own edges. This is my current setup.

Norton 220/1k
Norton 4k/8k
Chinese 12k
Balsa Bench Hone with ChOxide
Norton lapping plate

I know that there are "better" fancier stones out there, and eventually plan to buy some, but I would like to be proficient with what I have before I go buy more. The only change I am making to the current setup is I have already ordered a DMT plate after spending about 6 hours lapping my new stones with that confounded Norton lapping plate.

I watched every youTube video I could find on honing and finally decided to try Lynn Abrams circle honing method...he makes it look so easy .

Here is what I did:
I purchased an ebay razor with what appeared to be a blade in decent shape for $18 ($20 shipped) for practice. I have my recently purchased Dovo from Vintage LLC (honed by Lynn Abrams) for a baseline comparison.

Bevel Setting:
On the 1K side - 40 circle strokes each side, firm pressure; 15 X-strokes each side firm pressure. Felt like a dull butter knife after this, so repeated 2x until it began to "grab" the pad of my thumb. I noticed one side of the blade seemed "grabier" (is that a word?) than the other side of the blade.

Honing:
On the 4k side - 40 circle strokes each side, firm pressure; 40 strokes each side NO pressure; 10 X-strokes NO pressure. Didn't feel any different after this so repeated the procedure. After exactly repeating the 4k side already listed, I then went to 12 X-strokes on the 8K side NO pressure; 7 strokes on the Balsa with ChOx, then took it to the strop: 50 passes on the linen and 100 passes on the leather.

After all of this, the blade still did not grab at the hairs on my arm as I passed the blade through them (with no skin contact); however, I could cut the hairs on my arm with blade-to-skin contact (is this making any sense?)

Anyway, being the kind of person who has to see things all the way through, I decided I would give it a shave to see how close it was. It did "shave"...I'd say similar to what you might expect from an old bread knife you found buried in a field somewhere. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but it burned my neck quite a bit and can't come close to my professionally honed blade.

So how do you get good at honing when all you have are videos to watch? How am I sure I'm using the proper blade angle; the proper pressure to the stone; how do I know what feedback should feel like between a GOOD stroke vs. a BAD one???? How do I get good at this when there is no one around to teach me???? AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!

Your feedback is appreciated!

My eBay razor after my attempted honing:
View attachment 361930

I started out with basically the same equipment as you have and understand what you're going through. Like you I made a decision that if I wanted to be a straight razor shaver I would hone my own blades.

The circle strokes are to speed up bevel setting. Otherwise it would take much longer to do this. I wouldn't do the circle strokes past the 1K stone. The only way I would do the circle strokes on the 4K is if I didn't have a 1K, and you do.

The other thing that stood out to me is that you did so few X strokes on the 4K and 8K. I also noticed that you didn't use the 12K. The 12K is the "finisher," to make it closer and more comfortable on your face.

I was lost and to give me some type of feedback on how I was honing, I bought a cheap 100X microscope from Radio Shack for about $15 that had a little light and took AAA batteries. You can also get one like it at Amazon. Amazon also has one or two that take the watch batteries.

With the microscope I looked at the edge up close and personal. I began to recognize what a bevel was. As I progressed through the finer grits I noticed the edge getting keener. I found microchips that I couldn't see with the naked eye, that can irritate your face.

Part of what you're going through is feeling your way through a new experience, but I'd invest in a cheap microscope, don't do bevel setting on anything finer than a 1K, and when in doubt, let the microscope be your guide. It will take a little practice to learn to hold it steady, but this little gizmo was a breakthrough for me in determining with confidence when I had honed a blade properly.

Here's my microscope: http://www.amazon.com/Carson-Micro-...id=1377308752&sr=8-5&keywords=100x+microscope

​

After I think the blade is honed, I do 30 laps on the fabric/linen/felt strop and 100 laps on the leather strop. Then I look under the microscope to see if the debris is cleared off. That is what the strop does, it cleans metal, water, soap residue off your blade so your face gets nothing but a spit-shined blade.

Before a normal shave I do 30 laps on the felt strop and 60 laps on the leather. After the shave I rinse and dry the blade with a towel, then do 30 and 50 to make sure the razor is dry and clean before I put it away.

Beyond that, let your face be the judge. It will tell you if the blade is honed to your satisfaction.

I like your idea of having two blades to compare and determine shave readiness.

Videos are good to watch and they make honing look doable, but ultimately your face is the final judge. Shave readiness for one person may not be satisfactory for another. Our skins are different. We're used to different things. We use different soaps and creams.

Good luck and let us know if we can help.

 

[professorchaos]

I was thinking maybe I should try a more "traditional" method...this looks like a pretty good one to try. Pardon my ignorance, but what's the TNT test?

Ignorance? Every single one of us started out where you are now.

To do the TNT, dip your thumb in water and point it down at about a 45 degree angle. With your razor perfectly vertical, drag it, heel to toe, across your thumbnail. If the bevel is set, the edge will consistently "grab" at your nail. The areas which don't have a good bevel will glide over your nail.

For more information (but don't get bogged down in the details yet):

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Creating_the_Initial_Bevel
http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Sharpness_Tests_Vs_Edge_Uniformity_Tests_-_Bevel_Creation_Guide