Muhle STF XL - It is that good!

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

It must not be, the YouTube channel is for a different company - The Soapy Mitten - owned by a person named Shannon

The Soapy Mitten

An online exclusive, soap & skincare company. Always, paraben-free, sulfate-free, & formulated to outperform the rest.

soapymitten.com

Good catch. Instead of researching that, I dove into there Shannon site.

I assumed she used Soapy Mitten as a handle. You know what happens when you assume.

... Thom

 

[pierrelortie44]

Can I ask: what is the purpose of splay? To build the lather faster and/or better? (I'm an experienced bowl latherer and a beginner face latherer.)

Since I went synthetic last year I learned to paint only. After 20 years of badger brushes it took a little getting used to. Otherwise it’s just fine, no downside whatsoever for me.

 

[Andris83]

update on my EJ STF XL: when I first used it, I complained that it does not splay well and it is a little prickly. I have used it ~12 times since then. I think the knot has broken in (interesting for a synth), and I have figured out how to use the brush. If I use the right technique, I can splay it and it does not take excessive effort (still good backbone though). I think I got used to the face feel of this brush, and with the improved technique it does not feel prickly, but it still has its own face feel, definitely different to natural hair brushes (badger or boar). My other synths feel softer, with any of them, I can use them any way I want, I will not feel the fibers, whereas with the STF, I can sometimes feel the tips even when painting. After using the STF XL, other synths might feel boring because they are so soft. Bottom line: even though the brush is not what I thought it would be, I will keep it in the rotation as the main problems are resolved. Is it worth 80eur when I can get fantastic synths for less than half price? Not to me, but I won't get rid of it in a hurry.

 

[albsat]

Are the Mühle brushes from Ap shave Co, set as the Mühle factory does in height? I am thinking to get one from Ap shave Co as the price is a bit competitive with international shipping for me...

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Are the Mühle brushes from Ap shave Co, set as the Mühle factory does in height? I am thinking to get one from Ap shave Co as the price is a bit competitive with international shipping for me...

For the 25mm (XL) knot, Andrew quotes a loft of 54mm (approx.). I believe my Mühle XL is 55mm but they don't say so on the web site. I can't recall why that number is stuck in my head. I think Rudy Vey sets them at 56mm.

I wonder how accurately these can be built. I'd guess the best that can be expected is +/- one mm.

... Thom

 

[Rudy Vey]

For the 25mm (XL) knot, Andrew quotes a loft of 54mm (approx.). I believe my Mühle XL is 55mm but they don't say so on the web site. I can't recall why that number is stuck in my head. I think Rudy Vey sets them at 56mm.

I wonder how accurately these can be built. I'd guess the best that can be expected is +/- one mm.

... Thom

No, I do not. I set them normally at 54/55 mm, but have set as low as 51 or as high as 58 mm if requested by customers.

 

[cf1]

Are the Mühle brushes from Ap shave Co, set as the Mühle factory does in height? I am thinking to get one from Ap shave Co as the price is a bit competitive with international shipping for me...

I have an older AP Shave co muhle xl knot on a Cobalt blue handle and Andrew had set that at 57mm standard. Measured it’s a little more and I think it is great although I error on a bit higher for easier splay. It is the same style as the purple haze he may still have listed on his site. If you do like that handle style better email him. He sometimes has stuff in stock but not on his site. He is great to work with.

 

[muzichead]

Are the Mühle brushes from Ap shave Co, set as the Mühle factory does in height? I am thinking to get one from Ap shave Co as the price is a bit competitive with international shipping for me...

I recently picked up one of the collaboration brushes in the 25mm XL from Andrew and it hasn't been going exceptionally well so far. It's like most everything we experience in life as we need to try it first hand to know exactly what everyone is talking about and in this case, mine's nothing like everyone has described on these forums!! Mine was set by Andrew at roughly 55-56mm loft but it wasn't until I just took a pic that probably will explain most of what I am experiencing that is different from everyone else. I'll post it below in another post as I don't want to go too far off topic in response to your question.

 

[muzichead]

I may have figured out why I'm having problems with my new STF XL from APShaveCo.

First off I only have fan knot's on my other 3 brushes in my cabinet because I've just never gotten along with bulb type knots at all, they just don't splay like fan knot's in general, so they all had to go and as we all know the STF XL is a bulb knot.

Second I was a little worried about how deep the knot was set because it seems lately with all the new knots that have appeared seem to be shorter than most knots were made at least 3yrs ago. In the past knots averaged from what I remember to be about 65-75mm overall and now they are pretty much 55-65mm overall and the reason they can't set them at a desired loft for me. My other brushes are set at 58mm and were all set by me and I've never had any problems with them since I set them 3+yrs ago.

Third and pretty important here is the "usable" loft on the STF XL is only about 50mm according to the pic I just took and will attach below. My 3 TurnNShave knots have usable lofts of 58mm on the Angel Hair, 56mm on the Timberwolf, and 55mm on the Quartermoon. I'm sure to the average shaver out there they would consider mine to be floppy which I've never experienced them to be.

I'm thinking the combination of the bulb type knot and only 50mm usable loft is why I am having such a difficult time splaying the knot to my liking for face lathering and fear no matter how much use with it, I will always have a problem with it much like the bulb type brushes I sold off in the past.

I know this pic is kind of fuzzy but the scale shows me the glue plug is roughly 5-7mm which puts the usable loft at 49-50mm which is bad IMO for any synthetic knot...

 

[cf1]

Here’s a pic of AP shave co 25mm muhle STF XL. About 59mm loft which is top of handle to top of hair. The camera angle is a bit misleading and looks like 62mm. There is no glue bump at bottom. So all usable. I have no issue splaying the knot. I’ve sold a bunch of synthetic that wouldn’t splay. This is a keeper. I would talk to Andrew from AP shaveco about this and ask his about splay and loft. If your brush is listed at 55 and mine is 57 there shouldn’t be much difference unless it was set too low or is defective by having a high glue bump

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Isn't the glue bump "old news"?

My STF was purchased in April of this year - directly from Mühle (before I knew about this forum and Rudy and Andrew). I don't see any glue bump on mine.

I'd put my money on Andrew and Rudy treating ya right.

... Thom

 

[muzichead]

Isn't the glue bump "old news"?

My STF was purchased in April of this year - directly from Mühle (before I knew about this forum and Rudy and Andrew). I don't see any glue bump on mine.

I'd put my money on Andrew and Rudy treating ya right.

... Thom

To be honest I thought it was too so when I found a big glue bump in mine I thought it was very odd to say the least. I will contact Andrew tomorrow to get some insight on the situation...

eta... I would also like to add that I've had no problem at all loading the brush, just that I have to work at splaying it and keeping it splayed as it just wants to spring back and I have been successful at creating a lather on my face. It also paints lather for the 2nd and 3rd passes very well.

 

[purecro]

I got a question here as I have a Muhele ST XL 25 from Ap shave co, a cobalt handle, similar to @cf1.

My first time using it, which was a few days ago, I did a face lather, used no bowl of any kind and I enjoyed using this brush for the 1st time. I had no problem loading the soap, face painting or even splaying using the the chin or jawline technique. I am right handed and the only thing, which will take some time for me to get use is that I could easily splay the knot on the right side of my cheek but my left side the it was harder, too more effort and the knot wanted to spring back in place. I am not exactly sure why but I will figure it out, a sort of little challenge for me.

My question is that has anyone else had any issue like that where it would splay easily on one side of your face but not other and if so what did you do so that it could splay easily on both sides of your face? I know I will figure it out but was wondering if anyone ever came across the same issue.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

I got a question here as I have a Muhele ST XL 25 from Ap shave co, a cobalt handle, similar to @cf1.

My first time using it, which was a few days ago, I did a face lather, used no bowl of any kind and I enjoyed using this brush for the 1st time. I had no problem loading the soap, face painting or even splaying using the the chin or jawline technique. I am right handed and the only thing, which will take some time for me to get use is that I could easily splay the knot on the right side of my cheek but my left side the it was harder, too more effort and the knot wanted to spring back in place. I am not exactly sure why but I will figure it out, a sort of little challenge for me.

My question is that has anyone else had any issue like that where it would splay easily on one side of your face but not other and if so what did you do so that it could splay easily on both sides of your face? I know I will figure it out but was wondering if anyone ever came across the same issue.

I'm guessing you don't control the angle as well when you cross over and then you "lose" the splay. As mentioned above, the brush breaks in. I wondered if I was getting used to it, as opposed to it breaking in, but others' reports seem to point to break-in.

I mess around with becoming ambidextrous, and switch hands. My left (non dominant) hand is still a bit klutzy with respect to making nice circular motions, and I find myself tilting the brush a bit, losing the splay.

... Thom

 

[purecro]

I'm guessing you don't control the angle as well when you cross over and then you "lose" the splay. As mentioned above, the brush breaks in. I wondered if I was getting used to it, as opposed to it breaking in, but others' reports seem to point to break-in.

I mess around with becoming ambidextrous, and switch hands. My left (non dominant) hand is still a bit klutzy with respect to making nice circular motions, and I find myself tilting the brush a bit, losing the splay.

... Thom

Thanks for the reply and information. I just shave with my right hand, I know some people can do both, I don't, nor do I do that with my brushes.

Since this is really my first foray into synthetic brushes (coming from mostly badger and boar from time to time), overall I am really happy with the Muhle STF XL but this I was wondering about since I saw this thread so I figured I'd ask that way next time I use it I can do better with it.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Thanks for the reply and information. I just shave with my right hand, I know some people can do both, I don't, nor do I do that with my brushes.

Since this is really my first foray into synthetic brushes (coming from mostly badger and boar from time to time), overall I am really happy with the Muhle STF XL but this I was wondering about since I saw this thread so I figured I'd ask that way next time I use it I can do better with it.

The straight razor guys are the brave ones ;-) Switching hands is standard for them. Me? I'll switch hands for lathering, but not for shaving with a DE razor.

I'm a bit weird. I do balance exercises while brushing my teeth too

... Thom

 

[Rudy Vey]

I may have figured out why I'm having problems with my new STF XL from APShaveCo.

First off I only have fan knot's on my other 3 brushes in my cabinet because I've just never gotten along with bulb type knots at all, they just don't splay like fan knot's in general, so they all had to go and as we all know the STF XL is a bulb knot.

Second I was a little worried about how deep the knot was set because it seems lately with all the new knots that have appeared seem to be shorter than most knots were made at least 3yrs ago. In the past knots averaged from what I remember to be about 65-75mm overall and now they are pretty much 55-65mm overall and the reason they can't set them at a desired loft for me. My other brushes are set at 58mm and were all set by me and I've never had any problems with them since I set them 3+yrs ago.

Third and pretty important here is the "usable" loft on the STF XL is only about 50mm according to the pic I just took and will attach below. My 3 TurnNShave knots have usable lofts of 58mm on the Angel Hair, 56mm on the Timberwolf, and 55mm on the Quartermoon. I'm sure to the average shaver out there they would consider mine to be floppy which I've never experienced them to be.

I'm thinking the combination of the bulb type knot and only 50mm usable loft is why I am having such a difficult time splaying the knot to my liking for face lathering and fear no matter how much use with it, I will always have a problem with it much like the bulb type brushes I sold off in the past.

I know this pic is kind of fuzzy but the scale shows me the glue plug is roughly 5-7mm which puts the usable loft at 49-50mm which is bad IMO for any synthetic knot...

View attachment 1706802

I think glue-bump is the wrong word here. There is no glue going into the knot.
Muehle sets its knots into a plastic cup. I attach a picture here:

As one can see, the fibers are very much compressed into the small opening of the cup, thus creating the perception of a "glue-bump"; because they are so much compressed that the density of fibers in this area feels like a bump. One can see how the fibers fan (or bulb) out on the top, to about three times the width of the bottom, and within maybe 5 mm up from the cup, the "bump effect" is gone.
The 25 mm STF knots have, as long as I use them (>10 years), always had the same total length of about 75/76 mm, with the cup being about 14/15 mm in height. So, setting the knot like I do, mostly at 54/55 mm loft (from exit of handle to top of the knot), one does not feel not much if any "bumpiness".

 

[muzichead]

I think glue-bump is the wrong word here. There is no glue going into the knot.
Muehle sets its knots into a plastic cup. I attach a picture here:
View attachment 1706924

As one can see, the fibers are very much compressed into the small opening of the cup, thus creating the perception of a "glue-bump"; because they are so much compressed that the density of fibers in this area feels like a bump. One can see how the fibers fan (or bulb) out on the top, to about three times the width of the bottom, and within maybe 5 mm up from the cup, the "bump effect" is gone.
The 25 mm STF knots have, as long as I use them (>10 years), always had the same total length of about 75/76 mm, with the cup being about 14/15 mm in height. So, setting the knot like I do, mostly at 54/55 mm loft (from exit of handle to top of the knot), one does not feel not much if any "bumpiness".

Thanks for the explanation on this Rudy as that makes sense to me because my understanding was they didn't have a glue bump as all. I will say this brush has the strongest backbone of any brush I've ever used but I'm going to try and power through for the sake of science just to see if it eases up at all...

As I've said in a couple posts, I've had no problem loading the brush and I've made some great lather with the brush but its the fighting with the brush that irritates me as I had a completely different expectation from reading what others have experienced and just glad overall that I took a chance with it to see for myself and make my own evaluation of the knot itself...

 

[oscar11]

It’s an excellent knot, imo.

 

[anoop]

Is this the same fiber now used by Plisson? Is it as soft as the original Plisson fiber? Also size wise, anyone know how big the Plisson size 12 knot is? Is it comparable to a 23 mm or 25 mm?