Mueller's Water Grindstones are not Thuringians.

[SliceOfLife]

Ok, I've noticed several of these stones eBayed as Thuri's and Eschers in the past year and they always seem to fetch Thuri prices because of confusion/deception.


The 7.5x2 or 8x2" stones that are usually packed in a cardboard box with a rubbing stone and are labeled as Mueller's Water Grindstones Use only with water, etc, etc, are NOT THURINGIANS. These are the stones Mueller digs these days. They are much coarser than Thuringians and are easily available from mueller for 24 Euros. I know. I've bought one (they were about 15 Euro back then). Stop paying $100+ for them.

http://www.mst-mueller.de/

Natur-Wasserabziehstein is what these stones are.

0riginal-Thüringer Wasserabziehstein are Thuringians.

Do you notice how Mueller sells them as two different stones?

 

[Wid]

Thanks for the heads up .

 

[Disburden]

Not even close to the real thing...

 

[ADRSPACH]

I have two of their larger versions of stones 8x2 and 8x3 and I can say the smaller one is is same as my vintage Thuris. I did not have yet time to try the bigger one. Also it is known that MST does two different typer of Thuri and one of them is reclaimed reconstituted rock which could be why some of them are not as good.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I have two of their larger versions of stones 8x2 and 8x3 and I can say the smaller one is is same as my vintage Thuris. I did not have yet time to try the bigger one. Also it is known that MST does two different typer of Thuri and one of them is reclaimed reconstituted rock which could be why some of them are not as good.

Nope. They offer one kind of Thuri, and not in 8" sizes. It's only available in ~4x1" now. The larger size is entirely the "German Whetstone". Maybe it varies greatly, but the one I've used was nowhere near as fine as a Thuri, and I've had about ten other guys echo my results when we spoke about those stones. The new stuff isn't even from the same mines as the Thuringian rock. Calling it Thuringian is flat out dishonest.

 

[Utopian]

Sorry, but there is also a difference between the newer and older Mueller hones. The older ones are just as fine as other Thuringians and that is why the older ones have had such good reviews. I have 4 or 5 Eschers, 4 other Thuringians, and one of the Mueller hones. Both by microscopic examination and by performance, mine is comparable my other Thuringians.

 

[SliceOfLife]

They aren't Thuringians. I know for a fact they aren't mined at the same location (from the mine owner's mouth). There may be examples of them being as fine, but were that true they would stand for themselves and eBayers wouldn't be selling them as Thuringians and Eschers.

What reviews do you see where they are said to perform on par with Thuri's or Eschers?

 

[Utopian]

This one, and my own.

 

[SliceOfLife]

That's for the Thuringian. Different stone (as I mentioned above). That's the stone I imported a bunch of about a year ago. I've still got two pieces. One's a finisher right up there with my best Eschers and the other is my go to slurry stone on most of my Thuri/eschers that don't have their own. Mueller sells big "German Whetstones" and small Thuringians. They did briefly sell larger Thuringians several years ago. But they were packaged as Thuringians just like the small ones still are, not German Natural Whetstone.

 

[ADRSPACH]

Perhaps pictures of your one preferably with it's packaging would help. Otherwise we could talk about different hones.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Perhaps pictures of your one preferably with it's packaging would help. Otherwise we could talk about different hones.

Sold it several months ago. It looked very similar to the Escher Joel reviewed. I've seen dozens more Muellers and they all look like that. I've owned close to 100 Thuri/Eschers at this point with at least two dozen dark blues and have never seen or heard of another Escher or Thuri that demonstrated the patterning you'll see on Joels stone (see the link below). I'm only using it as an example because I can't actually find a decent picture of the surface of a Mueller stone and it really is a dead ringer for a Mueller stone.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30433

To contrast, this thread has a lot of excellent pictures of Eschers/Thuris.

http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/advanced-honing-topics/31893-escher-colors-3.html

Once you've seen a lot of eschers you'll notice the stones are either unpatterned or have long veins or streaks. They don't have the blobs, spots or splotches of the Mueller stones. Joels stone was in my experience a freak, and I wouldn't say it's out of the question that someone swapped an Escher label onto a Mueller and sold it at some point before it made its way to him. I should note though that I suggested this to him and he assured me that he has used many Eschers and swears it performed up to snuff with them (but he also says that China 12ks and Spyderco's perform on par with them, so I would say he has a relatively low opinion of Eschers).

Moving on:

Here's a reference to SRP wiki that is very similar to what I was told by Mueller (not sure who edited the article):
The stones sold by Timbertools and MST are mined in the Hunsrueck area of Germany, and are said to have a similar composition to the Thuringians...

http://www.straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Escher_Hones