I recently got into straight razor shaving, maybe a month ago, and I want to learn how to hone before either of my razors need it. I'm planning on picking up a cheap razor to learn and a honing setup. My question is should I spend the money and get a naniwa setup,1k 5k 8k 10k super stones, or just start out with something like a Norton 4k/8k water stone? I have a Dovo 4/8 AoS straight, and a Clauss USMC 6/8, both shave ready, I want to know what I'm doing before I hone either of them. Also when I'm looking for my "learning" razor, should I make a point to get a 4/8 or 6/8, or do they pretty much hone the same?
Looking for guidance for starting honing
- Thread starter Carlry
- Start date
I would advise you to try different edges from different finishers before you buy stuff. I bought and sold more stones than I care to remember.
- Thread starter
- #3
What's the easiest way to go about trying the different edges? Do I just have to buy a bunch of razors worked on different stones? or just send my blade in to be sharpened when it needs it and see how I like the edge?
Just buy a hone or two and get at it.
There's nothing wrong with trying edges - but it just pushes off the inevitable and while putting money in the pockets of 'pro' honers.
Seriously - until you develop a good sense of what edges are, and are not - then whatever stone your starting edges are honed on are pretty much irrlelevant. Plus, new users kill edges pretty quickly and if you're like me, then waiting for a blade to get honed is intolerable.
Past that - any stone you buy can probably be sold for just about what you paid for it, so there's no 'loss' of investment to fear.
On the flip side, the more stones you use, the more you will learn and inevitably - the more you will know.
Whatever direction you go in is up to you.
I started on Nortons - didn't like them and moved to Nani SS.
For synths, these days I use Nani Chosera stones.
You can always just get a 1k bevel-setter and a Coticule and be done with it until you feel a need for 'more'.
There's nothing wrong with trying edges - but it just pushes off the inevitable and while putting money in the pockets of 'pro' honers.
Seriously - until you develop a good sense of what edges are, and are not - then whatever stone your starting edges are honed on are pretty much irrlelevant. Plus, new users kill edges pretty quickly and if you're like me, then waiting for a blade to get honed is intolerable.
Past that - any stone you buy can probably be sold for just about what you paid for it, so there's no 'loss' of investment to fear.
On the flip side, the more stones you use, the more you will learn and inevitably - the more you will know.
Whatever direction you go in is up to you.
I started on Nortons - didn't like them and moved to Nani SS.
For synths, these days I use Nani Chosera stones.
You can always just get a 1k bevel-setter and a Coticule and be done with it until you feel a need for 'more'.
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Easiest way to start:
1. buy lapping film from thorlabs or specialized products and a marble edge tile from Home Depot
2. While waiting for film to arrive, read this thread:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it
To start to learn honing, You want a hollow ground razor (not a wedge or near wedge) with a straight edge (not a smile--one that I supposed to be curved--or a frown -usually the result of a warped blade or improper honing or both). Avoid razors with signs of corrosion near the edge as well. An unmodified gold dollar is also not ideal as the stabilizer will often prevent the edge from lying flat on the hone. There are ways of dealing with this but it's easier to learn without having to do so.
There is a stickies thread with some good info and links at the top as well. Doc's advice is good too, but one could also argue that you need more than a month of experience before you'll be able to appreciate the differences between the edges and you will need more refinement to your shaving technique to know which edge is best suited to you.
1. buy lapping film from thorlabs or specialized products and a marble edge tile from Home Depot
2. While waiting for film to arrive, read this thread:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it
To start to learn honing, You want a hollow ground razor (not a wedge or near wedge) with a straight edge (not a smile--one that I supposed to be curved--or a frown -usually the result of a warped blade or improper honing or both). Avoid razors with signs of corrosion near the edge as well. An unmodified gold dollar is also not ideal as the stabilizer will often prevent the edge from lying flat on the hone. There are ways of dealing with this but it's easier to learn without having to do so.
There is a stickies thread with some good info and links at the top as well. Doc's advice is good too, but one could also argue that you need more than a month of experience before you'll be able to appreciate the differences between the edges and you will need more refinement to your shaving technique to know which edge is best suited to you.
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- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks for the advice so far guys. I have to admit the idea of getting into honing is intimidating, which I find amusing since I don't find shaving with a piece of deadly metal intimidating.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I think your Naniwa SS series would be great to learn on though I'd substitute the 12K for the 10k in that progression. You could even get fancy and do the 8k snow white. Later you could top that progression with a Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. There are lots of good synthetic stones.
As far as razors to learn on, really the best bang for the buck could well be a Gold Dollar from one of the fellows here. Just get one (or more) with the stabilizer fixed. If you go this route and get a couple, you could get one with a set bevel and one without and compare how your bevel setting works. No eBay problems, rust, smiles, frowns, toe wear, heel wear, plain old worn out, wonky scales, etc.
You could also contact someone like "Whipped Dog" and tell him what you're doing, and I suspect you'd end up with a great razor or two to learn on.
If you do go eBay - and it can be fun - I'd look for some of those mid-twentieth century hardware store Solingens. It's what I did to learn on and it worked out pretty well. They're generally straight (the bevel aligned with the spine), cheap, and pretty darned good. Older French and older English razors can be a little more work to get things just right. Just avoid rust on the edge, frowns, smiles, and heavy wear, and look for one with thin bevels. I actually have a couple I've taken out of "the lab" and shave with fairly often because they're as good as anything else.
Cheers, Steve
As far as razors to learn on, really the best bang for the buck could well be a Gold Dollar from one of the fellows here. Just get one (or more) with the stabilizer fixed. If you go this route and get a couple, you could get one with a set bevel and one without and compare how your bevel setting works. No eBay problems, rust, smiles, frowns, toe wear, heel wear, plain old worn out, wonky scales, etc.
You could also contact someone like "Whipped Dog" and tell him what you're doing, and I suspect you'd end up with a great razor or two to learn on.
If you do go eBay - and it can be fun - I'd look for some of those mid-twentieth century hardware store Solingens. It's what I did to learn on and it worked out pretty well. They're generally straight (the bevel aligned with the spine), cheap, and pretty darned good. Older French and older English razors can be a little more work to get things just right. Just avoid rust on the edge, frowns, smiles, and heavy wear, and look for one with thin bevels. I actually have a couple I've taken out of "the lab" and shave with fairly often because they're as good as anything else.
Cheers, Steve
So I started honing about six months ago. I have 12 razors in my personal rotation and I do restored for resale so I've honed about 25 razors up from a butter knife edge.
Don't be intimidated, it's not rocket science, although with everything out there it is easy to think it is.
Since you have two razors that are currently shave ready you should do your best to remember what those edges feel like, or hold one back and just use your favorite and save the other one as your "baseline" edge to use as a comparison once you get going.
Since you current collection is already shaving you could likely get away with just the Naniwa 12K stone to begin. It can be used to refresh your razors when stropping and Chromium no longer brings the edge back to shave ready.
However, if you want to do as I did you will need a minimum of a 1K, 4K, 8K. It's suggested that you should be able to get a comfortable shave off of an 8K stone before moving to the high grit finishers. Purchasing these grit for well known companies like Naniwa, as you suggested, or Norton or shapton will allow you more access to help as many people use these stones. I use a King 800, Norton 4/8, and a Sigma 13K plus I have two coticules.
It's also often suggested that one begins their honing journey on synthetic stones as the results are consultant, whereas natural hones can have a magnitude of variability between stones of the same type. For example my two coticules are completely different.
I wish you good luck, remember to read as much as possible and ask lots of questions. It's not something you will likely pick up right away but that's part if the fun. Cheers my friend.
Don't be intimidated, it's not rocket science, although with everything out there it is easy to think it is.
Since you have two razors that are currently shave ready you should do your best to remember what those edges feel like, or hold one back and just use your favorite and save the other one as your "baseline" edge to use as a comparison once you get going.
Since you current collection is already shaving you could likely get away with just the Naniwa 12K stone to begin. It can be used to refresh your razors when stropping and Chromium no longer brings the edge back to shave ready.
However, if you want to do as I did you will need a minimum of a 1K, 4K, 8K. It's suggested that you should be able to get a comfortable shave off of an 8K stone before moving to the high grit finishers. Purchasing these grit for well known companies like Naniwa, as you suggested, or Norton or shapton will allow you more access to help as many people use these stones. I use a King 800, Norton 4/8, and a Sigma 13K plus I have two coticules.
It's also often suggested that one begins their honing journey on synthetic stones as the results are consultant, whereas natural hones can have a magnitude of variability between stones of the same type. For example my two coticules are completely different.
I wish you good luck, remember to read as much as possible and ask lots of questions. It's not something you will likely pick up right away but that's part if the fun. Cheers my friend.
I forgot to add that your suggestion of getting practice blade is good BUT the "eBay" specials I started with were a mixed lot. Some were alright to hone, some provide some "advanced" challenges like warps, frowns, smiles, needing quiet a bit of honing "gymnastics" to get shaving. You may be better off getting a new razor (money will dictate this of course) that's shave ready and then using one of your three blades as a practice blade. The difference between putting an edge on a straight well shouldered blade is hugely different then a blade that has many years of hone wear.
+1 on the chosera stones. -1 on the lapping film (just my personal preference).
As far as wedges or not, doesn't really matter! Just get a razor and hone it out. If you run into issues then come ask here and everyone will chime in. Don't be intimidated by a razor just because it's a wedge or has a smile or whatever.
As far as wedges or not, doesn't really matter! Just get a razor and hone it out. If you run into issues then come ask here and everyone will chime in. Don't be intimidated by a razor just because it's a wedge or has a smile or whatever.
I suggested film because it's cheap and easy to learn. I have a near-lifetime supply for less than the cost of a single chosera or norton stone, let alone naturals. Stones require a large initial outlay of cash to get started. Start with film and down the road you can add a finishing stone and drop the 1 micron film. Later add a bevel setter and drop the lower grit film--some recommend this from the start actually. Plus, you don't have to worry about how flat it is. Heck, carlry, if you want, send me a pm and I'll mail you a sheet of each grit (12, 5, 3, and 1 micron) to try, you'll just need the tile or some other very flat surface (thick polished glass or granite). The sheets are 6 1/2 " x 9". I have a paper cutter so I can cut them into 9" x 3" strips which fit nicely on the marble edge tile and give you a wide enough surface that x-strokes are not necessary. That should get you through several razors
I totally get it, I just don't like the stuff.
X strokes are beneficial for more than one reason, even with a completely flat/true razor.
X strokes are beneficial for more than one reason, even with a completely flat/true razor.
Hi,
I am also a beginner at this, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. I was lucky enough to have a Norton 4/8k combo, and a set of DMT plates because of a woodworking hobby, so I just got started with it, and added things later. Personally, if you are uncertain at this point and want to start cheap, then I think films are the way to go, then later you can figure out which type of hone may work for you. There are so many choices, and it can develop into a disorder! I am just learning how to use a coticule, and keep reading about Jnats.....my wife is going to kill me with my own razor soon!
Take care,
Chris
I am also a beginner at this, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. I was lucky enough to have a Norton 4/8k combo, and a set of DMT plates because of a woodworking hobby, so I just got started with it, and added things later. Personally, if you are uncertain at this point and want to start cheap, then I think films are the way to go, then later you can figure out which type of hone may work for you. There are so many choices, and it can develop into a disorder! I am just learning how to use a coticule, and keep reading about Jnats.....my wife is going to kill me with my own razor soon!
Take care,
Chris
I would say get a Chosera 1k for setting bevels and a Coticule from the BST or TheSuperiorShave. Fairly inexpensive way to get your feet wet but still hone on a natural stone. They're fun to learn.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
The best razor to practice on is an inexpensive vintage blade from your regular rotation that has grown dull from normal use. Learn to do a touchup on a finisher first. That way you are maintaining your own razors yourself, with minimum outlay of cash and modest learning curve. You can get a good spare razor, vintage and honed, from whipped dog for cheap. When it is dull, try to bring it back up to full sharpness with your finisher which could be a stone but for better results and for cheaper might be 1u lapping film over a $5 polished marble tile.
Once you have learned to retouch a worn edge, THEN maybe get a bevel setter and intermediate stones and a couple more whipped dogs or ebay specials.
The Naniwa Superstones are very good synthetic stones but for the 1k maybe go with the Naniwa Chosera. If you go with film, you might still want the Chosera for your bevel setter though 1k or 2k grit sandpaper also works well, as does film coarser than the usual 12u film. Unless you hone quite a few razors, it really doesn't make much sense though to spend $200 to $400 or even more for stones when a lifetime supply of film will cost less than half that. And also remember that if you are like most of us, 90% of your honing will be honing your own razors after they have dulled slightly from normal use, and so only the finisher will be needed most of the time.
If you start buying razors on ebay to fix up, you will also want some coarse hones like a 325 DMT and maybe a 600, though you can also just glue sandpaper to your lapping plate, if you hone on film. When you have a chip or other damage to grind out, you don't want to be all day or all week on your 1k.
If you just want to spend some money, get the Naniwa 12k for now. You will still want sandpaper to lap it flat. Glue it nice and tight and flat to a 12x12 polished marble tile or a glass coffee table top, with 3M spray adhesive or similar. Draw a grid pattern on the stone with a pencil. Rub the face of the stone on the sandpaper until all trace of the grid is gone. Ta-dah. Flat stone. Even if you think it is already flat enough, go through the drill anyway. You might be surprised to see that parts of the grid lap away right away and parts stay until you have rubbed quite a bit. If it were perfectly flat, the grid would completely disappear in a dozen or so strokes. So do this, and know that after a bunch of razors you need to do it again. You could try 600 grit paper and if it takes too long then drop down to 320 grit. Work yor way back up to 1k or 2k grit, then hone a kitchen knife or two on it to smooth it out before using it for razors. I wouldn't buy the whole progression yet. The 12k is a great finisher and it is all you need for a while.
Once you have learned to retouch a worn edge, THEN maybe get a bevel setter and intermediate stones and a couple more whipped dogs or ebay specials.
The Naniwa Superstones are very good synthetic stones but for the 1k maybe go with the Naniwa Chosera. If you go with film, you might still want the Chosera for your bevel setter though 1k or 2k grit sandpaper also works well, as does film coarser than the usual 12u film. Unless you hone quite a few razors, it really doesn't make much sense though to spend $200 to $400 or even more for stones when a lifetime supply of film will cost less than half that. And also remember that if you are like most of us, 90% of your honing will be honing your own razors after they have dulled slightly from normal use, and so only the finisher will be needed most of the time.
If you start buying razors on ebay to fix up, you will also want some coarse hones like a 325 DMT and maybe a 600, though you can also just glue sandpaper to your lapping plate, if you hone on film. When you have a chip or other damage to grind out, you don't want to be all day or all week on your 1k.
If you just want to spend some money, get the Naniwa 12k for now. You will still want sandpaper to lap it flat. Glue it nice and tight and flat to a 12x12 polished marble tile or a glass coffee table top, with 3M spray adhesive or similar. Draw a grid pattern on the stone with a pencil. Rub the face of the stone on the sandpaper until all trace of the grid is gone. Ta-dah. Flat stone. Even if you think it is already flat enough, go through the drill anyway. You might be surprised to see that parts of the grid lap away right away and parts stay until you have rubbed quite a bit. If it were perfectly flat, the grid would completely disappear in a dozen or so strokes. So do this, and know that after a bunch of razors you need to do it again. You could try 600 grit paper and if it takes too long then drop down to 320 grit. Work yor way back up to 1k or 2k grit, then hone a kitchen knife or two on it to smooth it out before using it for razors. I wouldn't buy the whole progression yet. The 12k is a great finisher and it is all you need for a while.
To follow the Suehiro and Sigma advice above, there is a Suehiro 1k/3k combo stone out there. Somewhere, I read a comment to the effect that if you bought that one, that's all you would need before moving to natural stones. Following this, the natural "modern Thuringian" Mueller's water grind-stone is very easy to use and claims for it range anywhere from 6k to 10k. IMO, it's an underestimated stone. You can slurry with it and take it to a water finish. Buying both would be < $100.
I'd be willing to hone one or two up for you free of charge, if you pay shipping. It is a cheap way to decide if you like certain edges.
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