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Layering: My new (old) lather method

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
This is something I’ve been playing around with for a little while recently, and wanted to share my progress. Apologies in advance for the long post, but there's a lot to share.

Backstory:

I started toying around with this concept, because of a couple of “floppy” best badger and super badger brushes. They simply didn’t have the backbone for my regular face lathering technique. This was especially the case, with two or more days growth, as they just laid lather on top of the stubble, because they lack the stiffness to work it through the beard to properly cover the skin. I also noticed that once the brush was laden, the brush had even less backbone than it did when empty. So In order to try to get the lower backbone brushes performing better, I decided to try to figure out if they could be used more effectively with far less product in the brush.

Older backstory:

The first synthetic brush I owned was an Omega Hi-Brush. I still have it. It has by far the springiest bristles of any of my synthetics, but I soon learned that it was also a fantastic brush for using with shave sticks, providing I painted only. Attempting to scrub and swirl with it, could fling lather, and leave more on adjacent walls than on my face, but as I can’t scrub or swirl effectively with the floppy badgers either, I decided that using the painting style that I use with the Hi-Brush, might be a good place to start.

Even older backstory:

I learned to shave with a double edge razor, and to lather with soap and brush, in the early '90s. Back before the “benefit” of internet forums, shave vids, or anyone else advising me what to do. I just had to figure it out as I went, and what I did then, was nothing like what most shavers on here tend to do now. However what I did before, bouncing between adding soap and water, worked every single time… because I didn’t stop tweaking until it did work. It was only when I started reading internet forums, that I let the digital realm convince me that collecting all the soap I might need (and often more) for all the passes I intended doing, should all be stuffed into the brush right from the outset.

Abandoning that greedy first load, gave me the final piece of the jigsaw.
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Drawing from those three elements mentioned above, I’m now getting fantastic lathers from my lowest backbone brushes, and my scrubbier brushes perform at least as well as they ever did.. At times, I think they too might be getting better lather than I have had over the last five to ten years.

Here’s what I ended up with…

Method:

I start out with a damp brush, well shaken to get the excess water out. I then start to load as normal… but I don’t load anywhere near enough for a three pass shave. I only load the brush, so there’s barely enough to paint a film of soap on the whole shaving area. Then after painting that on, I dunk the brush. Not just dip the tips, but dunk the whole knot underwater. That’s key to stopping the core of the knot getting gummed up with thick lather. After a gentle shake to dislodge the excess water, I then paint the water that’s left on top of the soap on the face. Dunking again if necessary to cover the whole face. Then I go back to the puck again with the still damp brush, load a little more, and repeat the cycle. All the time, I’m gradually building up layers of soap and water onto the face, while keeping the brush running as lean as possible.

Dunking the whole knot each time I add water, prevents a build up of thick lather deep in the knot, and ensures there’s far more free action to the bristles in the center. As a result, what little backbone is in the brush when dry, remains far more usable while lathering. However, the frequent additions of water also help flush the lather through the stubble, eliminating any dry shadows, and making sure the whole skin area is well lubricated. As such, I’ve had success getting super slick lather, everywhere it needs to be, through three days stubble, with nothing more than painting strokes. No swirling. Even with my floppiest brush.

For the painting strokes, I try to keep the brush close to upright on the face when going against the grain, to try and “sweep” the lather under the hair. When painting with the grain, the brush leans more, pressing the lather through the beard with the side of the knot. That sounds more complicated than it is. In reality, the neutral position of the brush, is that the handle leans slightly away from the knot in the same direction as the hair growth, and then the different approach angle just happens naturally as I paint.

The “building” of the lather all comes from this layering process. A little soap, a little water, a little more soap, a little more water, and so on. As the layers build up, I might need to dunk the knot more than once when painting on the water, to get enough water over the whole shaving area. The first time I add water, the lather is far too wet, and looks like it’s collapsed. More like cloudy water with bubbles in than shaving lather. As a couple more layers are added though, they get less washed out, and the “soup” starts to thicken. The beard penetration and coverage with this method, is far more effective than trying to paint on a bowl of pre-whipped lather, or trying to face lather with a floppy brush.

As soon as the lather is up to thickness/depth, and still has a nice sheen, it’s done. Ready to shave. I tend to use small brushes most of the time (20mm or less), yet on a day’s growth that might only need two or three light layers each of soap and water for me to consider it ready. Heavy growth might need one or two more layers (with my beard, water hardness, etc).

Benefits?
  • No whipping, and building, trying to knock air into, or knock air out of the lather.
  • No problems with over scrubbing and brush burn – I tested this with my nearly brand new Simpson Case in Pure, on just 17 hours growth. It worked great.
  • No dry spots beneath the lather, as the lather keeps getting both flushed and pushed through the beard for full coverage. It took me less than three minutes to fully lather through four days growth with my floppiest brush.
  • No huge globs of excess lather wasted down the drain at the end of the shave.
What about my lather bowl/scuttle?

Sorry. This is a face lathering method. While I used to load shaving creams in a lather bowl, and then finish off the lather on the face, I think I’ll just be smearing a little cream on the face, and using this method from now on. That lather bowl may well be redundant now.

Does it take longer?

Slightly. For me, anyway. For others, it might actually be a lot faster. From an empty brush and clean face, to lathered up and ready to shave, might take me two minutes on one day stubble, and maybe a minute and a half longer on heavy stubble.

But what about the second/third pass?

Well having the brush nearly empty, means there might only be enough left in the brush for the first layer of the next pass, and a couple more layers of soap and water might be needed. Which is absolutely fine. Also, with a nearly empty brush, and the bristles working better, and the bulk of the stubble now removed, there’s more chance of getting a bit of a gentle exfoliating scrub now before you start building up the layers again, with those lower backbone brushes. Add a little more soap and water as needed, with no worrying about earlier lather having dried out, or gone cold, and crack on with pass two. The lather for pass two, will be just as warm and just as slick as pass one.

That said, occasionally I have still ended up with enough lather in the brush to not need any more “layers”.

How versatile is it?

Well, I’ve tried this method now with scrubby brushes and floppy, natural and synthetic, hard and soft soaps, less than a day’s growth, and more than three. I’ve used it with shave sticks too, and with little smudges of shaving cream smeared on the cheek. So far, I have had great shaves every single time from this method, no matter which soap or brush. I also think this would be a good technique to have in the toolbox, for when you encounter one of those soaps that doesn’t want to get along with your water hardness.


Conclusions:

I think my days of loading all the soap from the outset, might be over. I’d certainly recommend giving it a try, especially if you have any brushes or soaps that aren’t working well for you with your water hardness and usual lathering methods. It might feel “wrong” at first, but going “back to stupid” with the loading, has certainly brought benefits for me, even if it might take me a minute or two longer to have a shave than before.
 
Nice one Al! And thanks for the elaborate description. I gave this a go with my floppiest badger today. And while I don’t think I executed the procedure fully correctly (after dunking the brush and painting again lather was building inside the brush towards the handle) I got a nice lather going. Thinner than I usually get from my tipdip method of lathering.

Another question I had was when you say paint on. Is that only in sideways strokes or do you still splay the brush in circular motions as well? I did the latter and almost instantly had a lather going after the first dunk.

Overall I might still have loaded too much for the first pass, but this is a very useful method of lathering. I at least had the feeling that it might even save some time when pressed for it. I may have had help from Tabarko as that soap lathers but just looking at it.

Thanks!

Guido
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Another question I had was when you say paint on. Is that only in sideways strokes or do you still splay the brush in circular motions as well? I did the latter and almost instantly had a lather going after the first dunk.

Thanks Guido.

With the low backbone brushes, I only use painting strokes, and as you noticed, trying to swirl (if the brush is capable of that) can collect a lot of lather deep in the knot, which with those softer brushes, can bulk up really fast (and not in a good way, in my opinion).

Sometimes I will scrub and swirl if I'm using a higher backbone brush, but not because the lather needs it. It is more for exfoliation and freeing any hairs which might be caught up. Plus, sometimes my face feels better for having had a good scrub. I do however try to "flush" the air out afterwards, to get it back to lather that isn't fluffed up i.e. as if I hadn't scrubbed or swirled.

Loading wise, I try to only collect a fraction of what I might normally do to start with, although for some heavy loading folks, they still might get more than this method needs. :001_tongu So, intentionally aim for not enough. Then next shave, see if you can get away with even less. If you use too much, too quick, you could just end up back with "normal" lather.

More thin coats rather than fewer thick coats. If the first soap layer looks like you just used a shave stick, and the first water layer looks like it's rinsing it off, you're on the right track. During the second or maybe third coat, lather will just start to happen.
 
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AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
My apologies, Guido. I should have probably been clearer in the opening post. I may try to take staged pictures at some point, to show how it evolves. However, that might take a while. I need good vision, good lighting, the need to shave, and a functional memory to all happen at the same time :lol:
 
Nice one Al! And thanks for the elaborate description. I gave this a go with my floppiest badger today. And while I don’t think I executed the procedure fully correctly (after dunking the brush and painting again lather was building inside the brush towards the handle) I got a nice lather going. Thinner than I usually get from my tipdip method of lathering.

Another question I had was when you say paint on. Is that only in sideways strokes or do you still splay the brush in circular motions as well? I did the latter and almost instantly had a lather going after the first dunk.

Overall I might still have loaded too much for the first pass, but this is a very useful method of lathering. I at least had the feeling that it might even save some time when pressed for it. I may have had help from Tabarko as that soap lathers but just looking at it.

Thanks!

Guido
Good questions and feedback, I look forward to the response. I did straight lines with no splaying. I too had lather build up by the handle and painted that in as well.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
@thombrogan @Guido75 @JKaboom

The soap I used today is a glycerine soap from a small maker in the Shetland Isles, Scotland. As with some other glycerine soaps, it can be a very easy soap to get wrong in terms of lather. The brush was a Case pure which hasn't broken in yet, and so flow through is limited. Together, not ideal lather making conditions, yet today's lather was incredibly slick... even if it won't win any online beauty contests.

The pics aren't that great either, but should hopefully give some indication of the progression.

NOTE: Do bear in mind that this glycerine soap looks rather different when ready, than other soaps and creams might do

First soap layer:

20231024_020538.jpg


Barely anything there. Just a thin film.

First water layer:

20231024_020601.jpg


Almost rinsed off. By now, some readers might well be laughing at how ridiculous this looks.

Second soap layer:

20231024_020626.jpg


Slightly thicker then the first time, but not by much.

Second water layer:

20231024_020644.jpg


Taken to breaking point again. However I can feel that this is slicker than the first time it collapsed.

Third soap layer:

20231024_020702.jpg


This is really starting to get slick now.

Third water layer:

20231024_020721.jpg


This time it has held together, and this soap doesn't get any slicker than when it's lathered like this.

If I was using Wickhams, a mug soap, or a decent cream, on seeing this, I might go for a fourth layer. Well, actually, this is probably what the second complete layer would look like, but still, I would likely need another layer. Not with this glycerine soap though. Any more added at this point, and the slickness can start to turn to stickiness.

So there is definitely an element of "know your soap" to get the best results, and of course there's personal preferences of how thick you like your lather. However I would hope that people can get an idea of the progression here. I'll let you use your imagination as to how other products might finish up looking. Via "conventional" face lathering, it's not an easy task to get this soap as slick as I got it today. If I do, it's a fluke. The shave was effortless, and resulted in a very comfortable finish.

I hope this helps.
 
@thombrogan @Guido75 @JKaboom

The soap I used today is a glycerine soap from a small maker in the Shetland Isles, Scotland. As with some other glycerine soaps, it can be a very easy soap to get wrong in terms of lather. The brush was a Case pure which hasn't broken in yet, and so flow through is limited. Together, not ideal lather making conditions, yet today's lather was incredibly slick... even if it won't win any online beauty contests.

The pics aren't that great either, but should hopefully give some indication of the progression.

NOTE: Do bear in mind that this glycerine soap looks rather different when ready, than other soaps and creams might do

First soap layer:

View attachment 1737468

Barely anything there. Just a thin film.

First water layer:

View attachment 1737469

Almost rinsed off. By now, some readers might well be laughing at how ridiculous this looks.

Second soap layer:

View attachment 1737466

Slightly thicker then the first time, but not by much.

Second water layer:

View attachment 1737470

Taken to breaking point again. However I can feel that this is slicker than the first time it collapsed.

Third soap layer:

View attachment 1737467

This is really starting to get slick now.

Third water layer:

View attachment 1737465

This time it has held together, and this soap doesn't get any slicker than when it's lathered like this.

If I was using Wickhams, a mug soap, or a decent cream, on seeing this, I might go for a fourth layer. Well, actually, this is probably what the second complete layer would look like, but still, I would likely need another layer. Not with this glycerine soap though. Any more added at this point, and the slickness can start to turn to stickiness.

So there is definitely an element of "know your soap" to get the best results, and of course there's personal preferences of how thick you like your lather. However I would hope that people can get an idea of the progression here. I'll let you use your imagination as to how other products might finish up looking. Via "conventional" face lathering, it's not an easy task to get this soap as slick as I got it today. If I do, it's a fluke. The shave was effortless, and resulted in a very comfortable finish.

I hope this helps.
Perfect, thank you. Now I know that when I did it with my Tabac that it evolved and turned out correctly using your method. Much appreciated!
 
Super appreciated Al! And I can clearly see that using your method I was really augmenting JCinPA’s tip dip method therefore arriving at a nice thicker coat of lather still.

I really used the dunk during my head shave yesterday. However I used a synth which might not be the best thing to do as water was really everywhere including the bathroom mirror. I did arrive at the more transparent lather as per your photos, but as I am using injector blades on my head I want more cushion there.

I will give this another go on my face shave in a few minutes.

Cheers,

Guido
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Super appreciated Al! And I can clearly see that using your method I was really augmenting JCinPA’s tip dip method therefore arriving at a nice thicker coat of lather still.

I really used the dunk during my head shave yesterday. However I used a synth which might not be the best thing to do as water was really everywhere including the bathroom mirror. I did arrive at the more transparent lather as per your photos, but as I am using injector blades on my head I want more cushion there.

I will give this another go on my face shave in a few minutes.

Cheers,

Guido

I know nothing about head shaving. My hair reaches the bottom of my ribcage :lol:

I also know nothing about injectors, but "cushion" is something that has never yielded any benefit for me. Quite the opposite. It either leads to tugging, or me using pressure to counteract the tugging, and then ending up with irritation. Of course, just because it's not compatible with my shaves, doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone.

Is it something to do with shaving by feel, rather than being able to see what you're doing? Or just what that type of razor needs, irrespective of where it's used?
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Interesting technique and thanks for sharing. I will try this, and I'm thinking this progressive layering might eliminate the need for pre shave? I've always felt the old double lathering technique (lathering then rinsing twice) had some efficacy

I don't use a preshave, so I can't comment on that. I'd certainly be interested to hear if it works for you though, and whether it eliminates that stage.
 
Ok - I have found another way of not succeeding. My muscle memory kicked in and I started to splay and swirl. The first layer was thin as per the method but after the dunk of water what appeared to be the beginning of almost washing off actually turned into a nice lather of yogurt consistency or slightly above that. Which - I have come to realise - is where I want my lather to be.

I did learn that I can achieve this consistency by underloading on the soap. Interesting!

Regarding the head shave, Al, using injectors is great for blade rigidity, but lacking the manes you proudly carry I want to protect my skin next to paying attention to my technique. It is indeed more shaving by fee and sound than image.

I used a boar brush today by the way. The progressive nature of lathering is speaking to me and I do get the preshave-iness of the first pass so to speak.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Ok - I have found another way of not succeeding.

:lol:

I did learn that I can achieve this consistency by underloading on the soap. Interesting!

You can achieve whatever consistency you need. Just because I stop adding layers when I do, doesn't mean everyone should. ;) Do keep trying to build it up in more stages, but be aware that after the point I stop at, the layers can thicken up very fast. So one more layer might get you where you need to be.

That said, I would be very interested to hear how well my method (and maybe even where I stop) actually works for you, if you do manage to turn your lather autopilot off, and build it up in smaller steps (face shaves - not head). If you can keep a light touch with your razor, you might be surprised just how kind to your face this lather can be, due to the increased slickness and hydration.
 
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