I’ve got a bit of a rock buying habit.
Welcome to the club. I have more Arkansas stones than I need, but not near as many as I want....H.A.D. It's ugly man, ugly......
I’ve got a bit of a rock buying habit.
I do plan on lapping it with SiC powder. I don't want to assume it's flat. Having control of the process from end-to-end is empowering.Dan’s stones usually come with about a 120 grit finish. Personally I like a burnished finish on my black and hard and I recommend that for one side of your stones. The good thing about Arks is they usually have two usable sides. Finish the other side to another level of refinement to get a different effect.
GritOmatic used to sell a nice progression of SiC grit but I’m not seeing it now. 60, 120, 220, 440, and 800 are staples which I frequently use.
Dan’s stones are usually very close to flat but it is good to be sure by lapping them on SiC. Also it is good to chamfer the edges and I personally like polishing the sides because it makes the stone feel nice in the hand. You do have to condition the surface in order to have the stone function at the upper limits of its capabilities.
What I've been using is the honing oil that Dan's sellsThis has been my approach lately and I've really been digging it. However, I do still run a beater razor over the stone for 20 or 30 laps after I dress it, occasionally I find some loose particles that didn't rinse off. Not sure if they're from the stone or maybe grit that got pulled off the sandpaper. Either way not something I want to discover with a razor I'm finishing.
What are you honing on? Thinner or thicker oils, or water with a dab of dish soap seem to get different results early on. What I mean is, soap/water or thick oil will get an edge smooth pretty quick but you may need to spend more time to get ultimate keenness. Thin oil seems to get to sharp quick but takes more time to get to smooth. At least, that's my impression right now. Talk to me in a year and see what I think.
Thank you for the detailed description!Yea, an Ark will trash, (rip out the diamonds) in a diamond plate and not affect the stone much. So, don’t waste a plate on it.
Arks. (Novaculite) are different from other stones in that the stone face finish dictates the finish they produce. The trick is to get the stone face flat and SMOOTH. Once flat you can alter the face and cutting/polishing ability easily and quickly with 600-2k Wet and Dry.
The only way to remove a low spot it to remove all the surrounding material to the depth of the low spot, and that is lapping flat. Flat will insure there are no low spots that, as the stone wears, contact the bevel and edge and ruin all your hard honing work.
I hear Dan’s stone are flat but, have never lapped or used one. To test for flat, mark the stone face with a sharpie grid, yes, you can see black sharpie on a black stone, or use another color, I like red. Buy a steel cookie sheet from the dollar store and some Wet and Dry 600,800, 1k and 2k. Wet a sheet of 600 and stick it to the cookie sheet.
If the stone is flat, ALL the sharpie should come off in 10 laps. You will see any low spots. A stone does not need to be “dead flat” to hone a razor, but it must be smooth without any pockets that have not been smoothed to a uniform finish.
If you need to flatten use 60 grit Silicone Carbide, GotGrit.com will sell you an assortment of 60-500 grits, for about $15. You do not need much, ¼ pound of each will be about $15 and lap several stones. If you plan to lap more buy more 60 girt.
Stay on 60 grit until you are flat, then you can run up the grits to 500 quickly, removing each prior grits scratches.
Finish on 600-2k Wet and Dry on the cookie sheet on a flat piece of cement floor. Use your body weight and start with a plastic teaspoon and bit of water to make a paste. Add a ½ teaspoon as needed, you will feel when it stops cutting.
Get to flat, once you have removed all the sharpie, wash, dry and remark the stone and see if all the sharpie is removed in less than 10 laps. The real test is completely removing a sharpie grid mark with 600 paper in less than 10 laps. Fooling yourself with “this is good enough” will dictate your results. The good news it you only need to flatten once for razor honing.
The reason that many of us have very different results and opinions on these stones is because, no two of us are honing the exact same razor, that has been finished to the same level, prior to going to the Ark. The stones have not had their faces prepared to the same level of finish, and the stones are Natural stones with unique composition. Naturally we have very different results.
Burnishing can also alter, calm a stone face, as can how you burnish, what you use and how much pressure you use. Burnishing microscopically knocks of the tops of the grit and fills the micro voids. It will slow the cutting but produce a higher polish.
The bottom line is you should try finishing at each level from 600 to 2k to find the edge that works best with the level of polish your razor has when presented to the Ark finisher.
I burnish with a large Carbon Steel cleaver, but a large carbon steel Kitchen Knife will work. If you don’t like the finish, you can easily go back to a 600 W&D finish and work up from there.
I do a 600 finish no burnish and 1k burnished finish on the other side, for a dual grit stone. Write on the side of the stone with a sharpie or paint pen which side is which.
If you lap on Glass, Marble or Granite, they will quickly go out of flat. Glass and Marble are very soft. A steel cookie sheet on a marble tile or piece of granite countertop on cement floor will give you a durable, flat surface and contain the slurry and mess.
So, if you get the idea there are a lot of variables, yea there are. Start with a sharpie grid and lap on 600, 10 laps, that will tell you where you are and which direction you need to go.
A good Ark edge is rivaled only by a good Jnat edge.
:-DWelcome to the club. I have more Arkansas stones than I need, but not near as many as I want....H.A.D. It's ugly man, ugly......
Yes, I was surprised by the term burnishing (I hadn't heard of it before). I appreciate the terminology clarification. I plan to lap and dress my stone. Lap with SiC powder. Dress with W/D. No burnishing!Let's forget you have these things for now. Let's talk terminology a little bit. Lapping, dressing, "burnishing". I spit every time I see the word "burnish" in the honing section. Hate that word being mentioned here. Maybe it's because I've done so much of it before seeing the light. The wasted time and effort is staggering. Yeah, it used to be a thing. Cooler heads prevailed.
Lapping on loose grit is the first step in proper surface prep. This will give you an initial flatness that needs to be refined. Next we move to dressing. 600 grit W/D will give you the final flatness and dress the surface of the stone to a condition optimal for honing razors. Again, this will give an optimal surface for razor honing. If 600grit doesn't agree with you, redress to a slightly higher grit but never try to get there by "burnishing". YMMV
Notice I didn't mention "burnishing". Burnishing doesn't belong in any discussion of abrasive processes of any type and for any use, most importantly for razor honing.
Consider all the other hones that get get "burnished" before use as a best practice. Short list eh? If you need 800grit sandpaper do you "burnish" 400grit to get it? Have you ever used a pedestal grinding wheel that was loaded and clogged with steel? That is an extreme example of "burnishing".
If my razor Arks get used with a knife or tool I redress them to 600grit before they will ever see a razor again.
I wonder if this "burnishing" thing all got started by folks getting freaked out by the crispy feel of a fresh stone and concluded it needed "burnishing" to smooth it out a bit. With a razor this takes about 50 laps for me, the stone settles down and with careful usage, will be effective for a long time. If I notice any areas on my stone getting even a little "burnished" I redress with the 600 grit W/D ASAP.
A properly dressed Trans or Black, when presented with a properly prepared edge, is not too slow at all. I would estimate my lap count as less than 200. A small cost for perfection.
OED.Burnish. 1. trans. To make (metal) shining by friction; to furbish; to polish (a surface) by rubbing with a hard and smooth tool.
Welcome to the club. I have more Arkansas stones than I need, but not near as many as I want....H.A.D. It's ugly man, ugly......
I think that the term "polishing" fits better than "burnishing" in regards to what guys are doing to the surface of arks. I burnish wood by rubbing the surface with glass or a smooth rock (it's a very old finishing technic to harden and seal the surface), that's not what is happening to the surface of an ark.Let's forget you have these things for now. Let's talk terminology a little bit. Lapping, dressing, "burnishing". I spit every time I see the word "burnish" in the honing section. Hate that word being mentioned here. Maybe it's because I've done so much of it before seeing the light. The wasted time and effort is staggering. Yeah, it used to be a thing. Cooler heads prevailed.
Lapping on loose grit is the first step in proper surface prep. This will give you an initial flatness that needs to be refined. Next we move to dressing. 600 grit W/D will give you the final flatness and dress the surface of the stone to a condition optimal for honing razors. Again, this will give an optimal surface for razor honing. If 600grit doesn't agree with you, redress to a slightly higher grit but never try to get there by "burnishing". YMMV
Notice I didn't mention "burnishing". Burnishing doesn't belong in any discussion of abrasive processes of any type and for any use, most importantly for razor honing.
Consider all the other hones that get get "burnished" before use as a best practice. Short list eh? If you need 800grit sandpaper do you "burnish" 400grit to get it? Have you ever used a pedestal grinding wheel that was loaded and clogged with steel? That is an extreme example of "burnishing".
If my razor Arks get used with a knife or tool I redress them to 600grit before they will ever see a razor again.
I wonder if this "burnishing" thing all got started by folks getting freaked out by the crispy feel of a fresh stone and concluded it needed "burnishing" to smooth it out a bit. With a razor this takes about 50 laps for me, the stone settles down and with careful usage, will be effective for a long time. If I notice any areas on my stone getting even a little "burnished" I redress with the 600 grit W/D ASAP.
A properly dressed Trans or Black, when presented with a properly prepared edge, is not too slow at all. I would estimate my lap count as less than 200. A small cost for perfection.
I too am drawn to the challenge of the Arkansas stone as a finisher. Quite a few are advising me away from this. Too late. I’m already bitten by the bug!I read somewhere that somebody posted, what grit level do you think your natural stone brings your edge to. Perhaps a sneaky way to inquire as to what grit, "is" my natural stone, but I think they may have been asking asking how natural stones finishes compared to JIS standards. Still a sneaky way to ask the unanswerable.
Anyhow, some one replied, "Arkansas edges are limited to the skill of the honer". I decided right then, and there, that, I would master Arks, to the best of my abilities and stay on that path. I will master one finishing stone, that is only limited by my skill. I can see my H.A.D. self, getting involved with Jnat's which would quickly drive me to homelessness. and bankruptcy. H.A.D.,......It's ugly man!
As encouragement, I will mention that I found hard Arkansas stones (Dan's black and vintage Norton and Pike translucents) easy to adapt to. No pressure on the stone, start with an edge that is already a good shaving edge, and it was all easy. The only adjustment I had to make was to use even less pressure than I thought at first.I too am drawn to the challenge of the Arkansas stone as a finisher. Quite a few are advising me away from this. Too late. I’m already bitten by the bug!
Thanks!As encouragement, I will mention that I found hard Arkansas stones (Dan's black and vintage Norton and Pike translucents) easy to adapt to. No pressure on the stone, start with an edge that is already a good shaving edge, and it was all easy. The only adjustment I had to make was to use even less pressure than I thought at first.
I will go out on a limb and say that if you've got a good prime piece of novaculite they're easier to nail than a coticule if you take your time. I also don't feel like they are that slow if you don't finish them to 2k them burnish then with plane irons. 220# then smoothed with a fine India is the ticket for me.I too am drawn to the challenge of the Arkansas stone as a finisher. Quite a few are advising me away from this. Too late. I’m already bitten by the bug!
3-4" blades on western work knives is where I get my read best at. Heavy pressure, doing circles really gives me an idea of how much steel is being eaten off by the amount and darkness of the swarf it kicks up. It's harder to get a read this way on darker stones but still viable if you wipe with a white cloth and re- apply water/oil to the stone to flush it.It’s worth spending an hour or more sharpening a 1” chisel and plane iron on the stone for a more thorough assessment of the stone. Find some steel that you can really lean into. This will give you a much more solid baseline of what the stone is really capable of. Look up some chisel honing videos on YouTube especially the one posted by Norton. Actually get an idea how to move the chisel on the stone and really FEEL the rumble under the blade. Take some notes about the texture, speed of the stone, and various pressure applications. Then take all of that information and figure out how to put together a good honing strategy for razors.
My personal experience suggests that it’s near impossible to get a meaningful read of the stone with a straight razor alone.