Hi all! Hoping to get some feedback on the surgical black arkansas stone from taytools. I've heard a lot of greast things about Dans but I was wondering if taytools has a good stone as well. Hopefully there are people here in the forum that have this stone from taytools and can give me their feedback. Thanks in advance and happy holidays all!
Taytools black arkansas surgical black any good?
- Thread starter Stapelfeld
- Start date
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
A hard black Ark used for razor finishing only will last you the rest of your life, so don’t cut corners. Call up Dan’s, tell them what you want and enjoy Ark edges forevermore.
Good whetstones are pricey, so don’t work your way ‘up the ladder’ - start at the top and quiit.
Good whetstones are pricey, so don’t work your way ‘up the ladder’ - start at the top and quiit.
probably several lifetimes. I know I am not the first owner of most of my stones.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
For razor finishing Arks, I don’t see how you could ever wear one out.
I’m not shilling for Dan’s, I’m a JNat person. but I do have a Dan’s black (thanks B&B BST). Dan’s apparently understands what razor people want and can supply it.
Many vintage stones are superb, but buying and testing them, no matter what origin, is a rabbit hole.
Yeah, I agree. If you are not in a position to hunt for something vintage, buy once, cry once. I've heard way too many stories of people trying to save money on new hones and getting a pup. Especially black Arks. Dan's is pricey, but at least you get what is on the label.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Absolutely. Everyone that has those bearmoo stones trying to save money for razors ends up with something better and the bottom barrel stones are surplus. Maybe they’re good for shovels and hoes, but a Norton India/Crystolon will do garden tools better and faster.
If you stick with the Pike/Norton family, quality is assured. Equal to or higher than Dan's. You may save some money vs Dan's also. As far as a retailer selling Arks sourced from an outside supplier.....it's a good way to get disappointed real quick. Could be money wasted rather than saved.
If you have your heart set on a new stone, do yourself a favor and buy a Dan's!
I would also like to add that these are heirloom stones that can(and have lasted) a dozen generations. The other benefit is that they retain their value pretty well. Dans stones are absolutly excellent and I've got numerous(and they're all black or translucent). I found their extra large pocket stones are a great size for honing razors if you're willing to put in the extra laps(or start with circles). I think I paid between $40-$50 with shipping. I don't recommend it often(because lots of folks hate smaller stones) but I think they're awesome. Merry Christmas Steve!
- Thread starter
- #10
I have a little dans pocket stone surgical black and I’ve put an extra 10-15 min on it doing circles and it has taken the synthetic feel away from my razors but a larger stone might be more comfortable.
If you already have one, you can easily finish a razor with a 3-4 inch pocket stone. Most folks only hone on about 4” of stone anyway.
Spend some time “finishing” that small stone on a dual grit India or Crystolon stone or 60 grit sand paper, use a grid with a sharpie to chart your progress. Pencil just washes off with slurry on an ark.
Take one side to 600 and polish the other to 2k or with metal polish. If you use the fine side of a dual grit India or Crystolon, it will finish similar to a 600 Wet and Dry finish.
Once the stone is flat you can change the stone’s face easily with sand paper. If you are flattening a larger stone, 60 grit loose Silicone Carbide or 60 grit Diamonds are faster.
Spend some time “finishing” that small stone on a dual grit India or Crystolon stone or 60 grit sand paper, use a grid with a sharpie to chart your progress. Pencil just washes off with slurry on an ark.
Take one side to 600 and polish the other to 2k or with metal polish. If you use the fine side of a dual grit India or Crystolon, it will finish similar to a 600 Wet and Dry finish.
Once the stone is flat you can change the stone’s face easily with sand paper. If you are flattening a larger stone, 60 grit loose Silicone Carbide or 60 grit Diamonds are faster.
To respond to the original question, never heard of Taytools until now.
They are a reseller, not a quarry. They might re-sell Dans. They might not.
I have a Preyda # 30048 6x2x1/2" Surgical. Side by side I preferred it over a stone from Dans that I wound up selling. But both were good stones. The Preyda stone can be found for a great price if you shop for it, roughly 1/2 the $$ what a known competitor gets.
If I needed to, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. If I was buying a gift for someone, that's what I'd buy. I nearly bought one just because the price was so low but I am working on reducing clutter, not increasing it.
A 6 inch long Ark leaves me approx. 4" to work with, which is about the minimum to keep me happy.
I have a 5" long Pike - wish it was longer to be honest. given the number of passes I use on a finishing Ark, the length matters a lot.
Feasibly, a 1" square stone can be used. That's not really the point though.
Comfort and happiness matter. For me that really starts at 6x2.
I can use smaller and thinner but there really is no reason to and there are many reasons to go wider and longer.
8x2 or 8x3 are nicer, and 10x3 even nicer.
But the cost is much higher and lapping them is exponentially more difficult.
They are a reseller, not a quarry. They might re-sell Dans. They might not.
I have a Preyda # 30048 6x2x1/2" Surgical. Side by side I preferred it over a stone from Dans that I wound up selling. But both were good stones. The Preyda stone can be found for a great price if you shop for it, roughly 1/2 the $$ what a known competitor gets.
If I needed to, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. If I was buying a gift for someone, that's what I'd buy. I nearly bought one just because the price was so low but I am working on reducing clutter, not increasing it.
A 6 inch long Ark leaves me approx. 4" to work with, which is about the minimum to keep me happy.
I have a 5" long Pike - wish it was longer to be honest. given the number of passes I use on a finishing Ark, the length matters a lot.
Feasibly, a 1" square stone can be used. That's not really the point though.
Comfort and happiness matter. For me that really starts at 6x2.
I can use smaller and thinner but there really is no reason to and there are many reasons to go wider and longer.
8x2 or 8x3 are nicer, and 10x3 even nicer.
But the cost is much higher and lapping them is exponentially more difficult.
This is solid advice. My favorite way to condition a hard ark is with a fine India. The stone still cuts steel at a reasonable speed(for a hard ark) but it's fine enough to finish on. Dans finishes their stones to 600#.
"I’ve put an extra 10-15 min on it doing circles and it has taken the synthetic feel away from my razors "
Yea don’t finish with circles, you are creating more random stria, finish with straight or angled X strokes for a uniform finish at the edge. Random stria can end in a chip, microchip.
I use circles to remove metal, like bevel setting or when I switch stone to remove deep bevel setting stria, after that it is all about straight or X strokes.
Hard Arks are for finishing.
Think of finishing a razor as a 2-step process, first flatten and finish the bevel, then finish the edge. It is what thinning slurry is all about.
So, it is not the end of the world, just go back to your Pre-finisher 8-10K and reset the stria pattern or near mirror finish, (even with a near mirror or mirror finish there is always stria, just micro stria.)
You will need to experiment with stone face finish and the finish on the razor to find what works for you, (your technique) and each razor. The better you pre finish the better an Ark can finish, they don’t remove much steel, just polish.
Yea don’t finish with circles, you are creating more random stria, finish with straight or angled X strokes for a uniform finish at the edge. Random stria can end in a chip, microchip.
I use circles to remove metal, like bevel setting or when I switch stone to remove deep bevel setting stria, after that it is all about straight or X strokes.
Hard Arks are for finishing.
Think of finishing a razor as a 2-step process, first flatten and finish the bevel, then finish the edge. It is what thinning slurry is all about.
So, it is not the end of the world, just go back to your Pre-finisher 8-10K and reset the stria pattern or near mirror finish, (even with a near mirror or mirror finish there is always stria, just micro stria.)
You will need to experiment with stone face finish and the finish on the razor to find what works for you, (your technique) and each razor. The better you pre finish the better an Ark can finish, they don’t remove much steel, just polish.
- Thread starter
- #15
Yes that is exactly how I’m feeling. I might be able to get an edge with the 1” but my happiness and comfort matters since I do this hobby to relax myself and not to have more headaches. So a more comfortable stone is what I’m looking for now.
- Thread starter
- #16
Yes my bad I didn’t specify that well. I start with circles and half strokes on the 1” pocket stone but the last 5-10 min are just small x strokes. Because before I used to do this mistake and finish with circles and the edge was horrible imo
The Preyda stone I referenced above works for me in that regard. My 5" Pike is arguably a better stone, but the extra inch on the Preyda is nicer overall.
I would say that Dans doesnt necessarily know what razor honers want. They don't need to. A proper hard/translucent ark is a razor finisher.
What Dans does is they seem to be better/more exacting at grading their stones. Years ago I bought some translucent "seconds" from them. They were gorgeous pink translucents. Stones way way better than the stuff Norton has been selling as translucent recently.
That's the first part.
Second part is they've added this "True Hard" designation. I've not owned one of these, but from looks and descriptions... this is basically a hard ark that is translucent in parts and not in others... which they bin above their "hard arks" which are more in line with other mines "Hard arks" in that they wouldn't really pass for a hard ark in the old days. This gives them a place to put some of their "lesser" translucent material... and also gives what appears to be a very nice alternative for a cheaper option that's still hard ark.
Finally; now that this Dunston stuff is being sold as "Surgical Black" and "Black Arkansas" by some resellers, Dan's doesn't seem to be pulling that trick. So you know what you're getting. If you buy a "Black Hard" stone from Dans, It's Arkansas Novaculite.
Because of price; I'd still say vintage Pike/Norton/etc translucents are the way to go... but they are steadily moving upwards in price, so Dan's prices are getting more and more competitive.
And 7x2" Vintages feel like they are still a steep dropoff in price vs 8x2's... so you can usually get one for a good bit less than even a 6x2" Dans. Same for 6x2's... really only 8x2s seem to get up there... and that's a $300-400 stone new if memory serves... so the $200-300 they fetch on eBay isn't really that bad.
The "Primitive" cuts are interesting if you don't need a square cut. I've heard of some deals from dan's on some big stones that way... but I think they don't come around a ton/there's a wait.
What Dans does is they seem to be better/more exacting at grading their stones. Years ago I bought some translucent "seconds" from them. They were gorgeous pink translucents. Stones way way better than the stuff Norton has been selling as translucent recently.
That's the first part.
Second part is they've added this "True Hard" designation. I've not owned one of these, but from looks and descriptions... this is basically a hard ark that is translucent in parts and not in others... which they bin above their "hard arks" which are more in line with other mines "Hard arks" in that they wouldn't really pass for a hard ark in the old days. This gives them a place to put some of their "lesser" translucent material... and also gives what appears to be a very nice alternative for a cheaper option that's still hard ark.
Finally; now that this Dunston stuff is being sold as "Surgical Black" and "Black Arkansas" by some resellers, Dan's doesn't seem to be pulling that trick. So you know what you're getting. If you buy a "Black Hard" stone from Dans, It's Arkansas Novaculite.
Because of price; I'd still say vintage Pike/Norton/etc translucents are the way to go... but they are steadily moving upwards in price, so Dan's prices are getting more and more competitive.
And 7x2" Vintages feel like they are still a steep dropoff in price vs 8x2's... so you can usually get one for a good bit less than even a 6x2" Dans. Same for 6x2's... really only 8x2s seem to get up there... and that's a $300-400 stone new if memory serves... so the $200-300 they fetch on eBay isn't really that bad.
The "Primitive" cuts are interesting if you don't need a square cut. I've heard of some deals from dan's on some big stones that way... but I think they don't come around a ton/there's a wait.
