It quacks again!!!!!

[Eighties]

Alright so this thing had been on Ebay for a while but I thought the price was initially too steep to pull the trigger on as there was a lot of rust which we know makes restoration of a hollow grind dicey at best. Well the price dropped to $33 and I took another look at the picture. The rust appeared to be mostly surface rust and I have brought razors back that were in far worse conditions so... I figured this might be my best shot at getting my hands on a Wonderedge. Here are the before and after shots.

Fortunately the rust along the edge was surface only and there was good steel right underneath. I still have some work to do to make it pretty again but it honed up and took an edge. You know what they say, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and shaves like a duck...

 

[Suhrim21]

Nice. Looking great.

 

[mycarver]

The first thing I noticed was there was a pattern to the rust . The same pattern that's on the scales. That's not a good sign. It usually indicates gassing. The photos before aren't really clear but enough so that I can make it out. Also if you look at the shaft why is there only rust half way along it and it happens to be just where the scales sit? Same for the blade.
If you're familiar at all with the DD razors you'll notice the Goldedges have a solid opaque liner to them. finding one with damage from gassing is rare. But if you look at Wonderedges the scales don't have liners and with this type of scale gassing is common because it tends to go off on the clearer sections of the scale as opposed to the more solid color areas. And this phenomenon matches up with your razor.
You can 't stop it. The rust will return. And if this is the case the scales have to go ASAP. And don't keep this razor near any of your others.
Besides the rust it may be why it was on auction for a while.

 

[mycarver]

Oops! Just saw I didn’t complete my thoughts. You say you have more work to do but it appears that surface rust on the edge ( may be the photo ) is quite nasty and deep which will limit the ability to hone this razor very long. And it’s a magnet for rust, that type of deep pit. I could be wrong but better to check before you get into a full restoration and take it apart and spend any more time on it.
Just my observations.

 

[Eighties]

I knew celluloid rot was a possibility when I saw the pictures. I studied them very closely and considered that the other possibility was moisture retained in the scales when the razor was in the plastic box. Now that I've been able to inspect it I'm reasonably confident that is the case BUT I won't still rule out the possibility of gassing as you are correct the pattern is consistent with that as well. The one thing that makes me think that it isn't gassing is when I have seen this happen, most recently on a Goldbug of mine, there's often some evidence of deterioration on the scales. I can find nothing inside or outside on these that looks like the examples I've seen before. To be safe, I'm going to keep it away from my other razors and keep a close eye on it for signs of further corrosion. I hate to part scales and razor until I'm sure. But if that does happen then it will be a total rescale and my first attempt at transferring bolsters.

 

[mycarver]

If you say , with the razor in hand, you can see the same pattern, that’s not moisture “in the box “ as any moisture would be over the entire razor. And I can see it from here in so so grainy dark photos.
Not making the same patterns from what’s on the scale and what is on the blade is happening from general moisture. Ain’t gonna happen . That doesn’t make a definite line down the spine. Or make scale patterns on the blade.
And no, seen it many many times. The scales will and DO appear perfectly fine. It’s gas. Vapors that form .
Did several posts on this very topic myself . And then again you have that pitted edge to consider.

I realize you probably had high hopes getting a Wonderedge at a decent price that you thought needed a little clean up . I understand that. Been there myself. But sometimes the reality is a $33 lesson in razor restoration.

 

[mycarver]

Here is a test piece I did of one of my Genevas’. I posted it here.
Both sides of the blade were “surface rust “ as you say. The lines of rust were exactly where the scales lined up. Just like yours . Not having a pattern it was even. Yours follows a pattern that you indicate.
So just for my own curiosity I cleaned up the facing blade and only inserted it part way into the scales and let it sit.
Well guess what?
Yup. A line of rust just where the scales sat! And I didn’t sink the blade all the way into the scales. That’s where the line was formed.
Didn’t take long either.
And guess what else as in every other case? ( 6 so far out of restoring 800 razors and owning 500+)
The scales look perfect.

 

[Eighties]

You could be right. I will keep a constant vigil on this for a while.

I will say that getting the edge back was pretty easy. I started by giving it two trips up and down a 1k and the thumbnail test yielded a totally smooth edge. The only "problem" I encountered was the Wonderedge's reputation for being a bit harder to hone. Now that the edge is established, it shaves wonderfully smooth. I did some more work on it today and even the little bit of pitting that was left is almost entirely gone using nothing more than Maas and elbow grease.

Again you may be correct, I appreciate your advice as I haven't done nearly as many restorations as you have. For now I'm cautiously optimistic that moisture was the issue. Send good mojo my way that fortune has favored the foolish.

 

[Ice-Man]

Sorry as mycarver said you have the start of cell rot, as been pointed out it follows the lines of the scales.
I have bought razors from the States and by the time they get here in the UK, the blades have suffered very deep pitting from cell rot now days if I see rust on a blade along the line of the scales I wont buy as it not worth it.

I have even gone as far as asking sellers if they would remove the scales, and send me just the blade they wont so I dont buy.

 

[mycarver]

+1 ice-man. The photos showed it right away in the before pics.

All the wishing , belief in moisture on plastic scales in a box, keeping eyes on it and believing alternate facts and good mojo doesn’t change the fact cell rot is on the loose. It’s not a “ possibility” . It’s the reality.
And there is no way to stop it.

Any pics of the Maas removing that pitting along the edge? I’d be interested in seeing that as it looked pretty deep in the pics. I would have thought heavy sanding or removing a lot of steel was necessary.

Interesting too. I have quite a few DD’s
In Goldedge, Wedgedge, Satinedge, Wonderedge besides restorations for others and never noticed any difficulty in honing them. Actually found them some of the easier blades to take a sweet edge quickly because they’re so thin.

 

[Ice-Man]

Yep I find now days its better to rescale and save the blade, as we can still use the inlays on the new scales as nowdays we have better stuff to work with.

 

[mycarver]

Oh yeah. Using some cracked ice could mimic this pretty well. Not the same swapping logos and bolsters as the original but captures the flavor.
Actually I may have another an inlay swap coming up.
But in this case I still question the blade too. That line of pitting might allow you to get a few passes on the hones but sooner or later you’re hitting pits. To try and remove it ( breadknife , whatever) will leave the blade basically useless .
I’ve learned a few things over the years.
1. Don’t let your wishes override what the razor is showing you. Malcolm Gladwell is right. We can “thinslice” pretty quickly and know when something isn’t right. Razors, like many things get passed by for a reason.
Some you look at and just say, what a shame. Keep walking.
2. Cut your losses and go on to the next one. Not all razors are worth trying to rescue regardless how badly you may wish it to not be so. There are too many of them and few are in the realm of a one off model J Duesenberg.
Give it a day, week month and some other bauble will show up.
3. The mistakes you make are basically paying for a cheap but instructive education on what not to do next time. We all learned from it.

 

[Ice-Man]

yes I had one the same pitting along the edge, and no matter how much I honed it it still looked like a saw blade under the loop.
I had to remove far to much metal to get past the pitting so I just gave up with it in the end...

 

[Eighties]

Well the oxidation was not nearly as heavy as it appeared in the pics. It cleaned off with minimal effort and took an edge like a champ. There really was no difficulty in honing it, only seemed to take a bit longer than my Goldedge, Satinedge and wedges. The Wonderedge blades are rumored to take more trips on the hone due to the different temper. For all I know it could have been my perception based on what I've read in several posts here and elsewhere. That being said it goes through my stubble like a hot knife through butter.

I knew full well that celluloid rot was a likely cause. The most likely in fact having lost a couple razors to it myself. In those cases the scales showed clear signs of deterioration and were so brittle they almost snapped under their own weight. I also have had the same rust pattern show up on horn and acrylic scaled razors and the culprit was, by process of elimination, retained moisture. It's what led me to think there was hope to rescue this one. I've brought back blades that were in worse shape.

In any event I'm definatly satisfied with the razor and it's performance. I'll try to get some more pics up soon.

 

[totorlekiller]

I knew celluloid rot was a possibility when I saw the pictures. I studied them very closely and considered that the other possibility was moisture retained in the scales when the razor was in the plastic box. Now that I've been able to inspect it I'm reasonably confident that is the case BUT I won't still rule out the possibility of gassing as you are correct the pattern is consistent with that as well. The one thing that makes me think that it isn't gassing is when I have seen this happen, most recently on a Goldbug of mine, there's often some evidence of deterioration on the scales. I can find nothing inside or outside on these that looks like the examples I've seen before. To be safe, I'm going to keep it away from my other razors and keep a close eye on it for signs of further corrosion. I hate to part scales and razor until I'm sure. But if that does happen then it will be a total rescale and my first attempt at transferring bolsters.

I had cell rot on scales that looked pristine and brand new. I first did not believe it either and just thought it was a humidity problem, but it came right back.

 

[Eighties]

I had cell rot on scales that looked pristine and brand new. I first did not believe it either and just thought it was a humidity problem, but it came right back.

Yeah, like I said I'm definitely going to keep a very close watch on this one for a while. If I even get so much as a hint that it is corroding, I'll rescale it in a heartbeat. I can't let this one die as the likelihood of getting my hands on another WE at a price that won't cause me a divorce is unlikely at best. LOL

I might still do a rescale just to be on the safe side. But I'll want to try and find some acrylic that most closely resembles the original pearl. I have seen WE's redone with black and while hardly original in appearance, they certainly looked cool.

 

[Joshua223]

You got the blade looking a LOT better. That is great if the pitting didn't cause issues with the bevel.

Don't give up on finding good deals on nice razors. You stumble across them in unlikely places.

In cases where cell rot is not certain you can take the scales off and leave a clean piece of carbon steel between them. Then you can watch for rust without risking further damage to the blade. You can usually get an old carbon steel kitchen knife cheap and sand a spot on it so you have fresh steel on the surface.

 

[Ice-Man]

Yeah, like I said I'm definitely going to keep a very close watch on this one for a while. If I even get so much as a hint that it is corroding, I'll rescale it in a heartbeat. I can't let this one die as the likelihood of getting my hands on another WE at a price that won't cause me a divorce is unlikely at best. LOL

I might still do a rescale just to be on the safe side. But I'll want to try and find some acrylic that most closely resembles the original pearl. I have seen WE's redone with black and while hardly original in appearance, they certainly looked cool.

One of these are your best friend to look at the blade edge



This way you will see what the pitting does to the edge of a razor, it might look ok by just looking at it but when rust has been on a blade they are never the same. As the razor edge looks like a saw instead of looking like a polished flat edge that is sharp and cuts clean without tugging or pulling, I'm trying to find my pictures of a blade that has had pitting along the edge and a good edge.

When I find them I will post on here so you can see what I mean......

 

[mycarver]

I don’t think you need a magnifier to see the pitting in post #1 after pic.
But he said it cleaned up fine. He’s posting more pics .

But I do believe you can find clean metal under rust. Did it many many times. Razors were just fine.

 

[Eighties]

Alright, almost a year later I'm gonna resurrect this old thread and give some updates. I like the idea that Joshua223 had so I devised an experiment to see if off gassing was actually the culprit. I placed a Durham Duplex blade in a baggie with the WE scales and another in with some old Gold Bug scales that I knew were off gassing. Then I waited a couple weeks. Full disclosure, I didn't take before pics, these are right before I opened the baggies to see the results. Here are the pics demonstrating what I did:

And here are the results:

And a year later:

It still quacks!!! Okay so it could use a good cleaning but after a year it's still in my rotation and still shaves great.

Thought I would share so that anyone who is questioning if cell rot is a culprit might try this method to see what's what.

Thanks again to Josh for the idea!
Chris