. . . then how do I know that? I've been able to pick up a few very nice vintage razors, and I do enjoy maintaining and shaving with them. I've been able to avoid getting caught up in some of the discussions, mostly because I admit I am unfamiliar with some to the topics. It occurred to me today that I may have overlooked one subject: the quality of balance or the absence thereof. Bottom line, how do I know that any given razor I'm using is not balanced? I've just been shaving, not knowing whether I've been the victim of an unbalanced razor, and didn't have enough sense to know it. What will be the tipoff if one or more of mine are not balanced? What does that mean?
If a razor is unbalanced. . .
- Thread starter brothers
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http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=83304&highlight=balance+bill
Basically, if it feels like Bill's razor, thats the cat's meow. If its close, damn good. If its awkward to shave with, its on the other end of the spectrum. And I know you've used the travel straight.
Basically, if it feels like Bill's razor, thats the cat's meow. If its close, damn good. If its awkward to shave with, its on the other end of the spectrum. And I know you've used the travel straight.
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- #3
Leighton, you've given me a challenge now. No doubt that Bill's razor had a special feel to it, from the moment I picked it up and shaved with it. With the question currently at the forefront of my razor-thinking, I can speak from experience that I have used a well-balanced razor. But at the time I wasn't thinking about balance per se. I think what you are saying to me is that I can use the known example of a well-balanced razor in order to explore how other razors feel, compare them mentally, and figure out for myself (subconsciously?) what the opposite end of the spectrum feels like. What qualities would be showing up in a poorly-balanced razor? How would the shave suffer? Would the poorly balanced razor influence my shaving technique to the point that the results would be worse?
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- #4
Some of the responses in that excellent discussion thread seem to be saying that balance is not something that is an inherent quality in any given razor, but actually infinitely variable depending on the manner in which the razor is held in the hand, and that perhaps what would be a poor balance in one guy's hand would be a perfect balance in someone else's hand.
So wouldn't that mean that all razors are not inherently balanced or unbalanced, and "balance" then becomes a verb, something done by the user "to and with" the razor during the course of actually shaving with it?
So wouldn't that mean that all razors are not inherently balanced or unbalanced, and "balance" then becomes a verb, something done by the user "to and with" the razor during the course of actually shaving with it?
Yes, I throw down the guantlet.
Bill's razors are definitely the best balanced "hefty" razors I've laid hands upon. Certainly quite a challenge to balance those meaty razors with the original lightweight scales, but Bill has accomplished the task admirably. Take for example, the W&B 8/8 Celebrated meat chopper. Even though its pretty hollow compared to a wedge, the blade is just so big and heavy that the scales cannot compensate for it. That would be an example of poorly balanced. But fear not, its still an awesome razor, just awkward to use at first.
Another example of misbalance would be a hollow ground razor stuck in really thick scales. Or steel scales. Imagine a Double Duck in steel scales, and you have the other extreme.
Somewhere in the middle lies the well balanced razor.
To an extent this is true. But the above examples show the two extremes where the razor is clearly unbalanced. (forgive me meat chopper lovers) The perfectly balanced razor is the razor that you can write your name in your lather. When you can spell out "Brothers" in your face without chopping it to ribbons.
Sure, you can compensate for small offsets by changing your grip a little, but when you have a well balanced razor; you just know. But your right about technique and experience. Without being excellent at both, I'm not sure you can appreciate the difference.
Not only should the razor feel good in your hands, but it should be able to go up and down and do a scything stroke effortlessly. It should also allow you to change the angle of the blade effortlessly. Bill's razor has all that, strive for Bill's razor and you'll begin to appreciate balance.
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My stance on the subject is no secret - it's simple math not rocket science or voodoo.
This is exactly how it works:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/IMac_G4_sunflower7.png
You will have to exert a lot more effort with your fingers than necessary to hold the razor and maintain the optimum angle as you shave.
Yes it depends on your preference of grip, but the center of mass has to be inside the area you hold. It's just that simple. So of course it is possible to have a razor for which this condition can not happen no matter what.
Actually this is rather easy. Balancing lighter razors is far bigger challenge. Adding weight to the scales is easily accomplished, but making light scales that look good and are functionally sound is another story.
This is exactly how it works:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/IMac_G4_sunflower7.png
Edited post to reflect I meant "balance the meaty 8/8 razor with the stock 'featherweight' scales." Sorry for the confusion.
I guess my vocation is to be a contrarian because I have a couple of things to say about this topic, which if it is a problem at all, is a very minor one.
First, I have razors with the same blade and different scales. LeGrelot 6/8s with ivory and stainless steel scales. I've never noticed any difference in how they feel. I think that this is because a razor consists of two elements, the blade and scales, each of which, individually, have a fixed center of balance while the razor, as a unit, does not. This is because the scales move in relation to the razor and the center of balance changes depending on whether the scales are in this configuration _/ or this _\.
Second, I followed Bill's thread that is linked to above and none of it made sense to me until I realized that Bill made his original post on April Fool's Day. I think that Bill has a very subtle and quirky sense of humor and that he was pulling everyone's leg with an elaborate joke that nobody got. When everyone started to take him seriously he just went with the flow.
First, I have razors with the same blade and different scales. LeGrelot 6/8s with ivory and stainless steel scales. I've never noticed any difference in how they feel. I think that this is because a razor consists of two elements, the blade and scales, each of which, individually, have a fixed center of balance while the razor, as a unit, does not. This is because the scales move in relation to the razor and the center of balance changes depending on whether the scales are in this configuration _/ or this _\.
Second, I followed Bill's thread that is linked to above and none of it made sense to me until I realized that Bill made his original post on April Fool's Day. I think that Bill has a very subtle and quirky sense of humor and that he was pulling everyone's leg with an elaborate joke that nobody got. When everyone started to take him seriously he just went with the flow.
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- #9
This is some great discussion guys. This all helps me to focus on what's going on while I'm shaving, my grip on the razor, etc. The overall weight and mass of the razor + scales definitely makes a difference in my case. I have a personal preference for the slightly heavier, wider, thicker blades up to a point. I think it's a subconscious "sweet spot" for me, where my hand in combination with the razor seems to work better, and gives me that bit of control that ultimately helps me achieve a better shaving experience. Above and below that sweet spot, and I'm just a tiny bit less in control.
One razor I had that was way off balance was a SS Dovo in the SS scales it just did not feel right no matter the grip shaving and stropping especially, but I had it rescaled by Bill Ellis top razor and it is perfect, I don't or haven't owned a Wapi but I imagine they are off balance too but again a rescale job will solve that.
