How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

[JPO]

There is very little "give" in a properly constructed balsa strop when used with the pressure (or lack thereof) on a SR.

When a balsa strop is properly pasted, the diamond particles are embedded into the surface of the balsa with none "rolling around" on its surface. This greatly reduces the scratch depth on the bevel.

I dare say that there is little to almost no convexing of the bevel/edge when stropping on diamond pasted balsa that has been properly prepared and used. I would be more concerned about bevel/edge convexity being introduced due to stropping on hanging clean leather before each shave. The hanging clean leather has a lot more "give" in it that a balsa strop has.

As I have never needed to return a blade to a whetstone/films for refreshing the edge, I cannot comment on whether any convexity that may be in a blade's bevel/edge brought about by balsa and/or clean leather stropping affects the refresh result.

I have only rarely shaved of a 0.25μm diamond pasted balsa strop. On each occasion it gave me the worst shave compared against 1.0μm film, 0.5μm balsa and 0.1μm balsa.

There is probably a good reason why the crisp off the stone feeling goes away after a few shaves and some stropping. I like the feel off different finishing stones, but films and and balsa does have a place.
The Iwasaki paper should have some appendices added to it and updated

 

[Slash McCoy]

Hopefully i am not repeating things already covered in this extensive thread.
There is a blog which i am not allowed to link to here which indicate that at some grit level the size of the abrasive particle is less important than the substrate it is applied to.
I am not sure if that applies to balsa, because he used something else.
Do you find an improvement after the 0.25 micron on balsa?

I have only used the green stuff on balsa before and CBN on leather. Some harder steel really seem to like some strokes on balsa after a synthetic progression. I am just afraid that to many strokes leads to a convex edge. I really like to preserve the geometry of the edge as much as possible. So, when i used balsa i only did around 5 light strokes, and test shaved. I can not recall needing to revisit the balsa to improve the edge. Maybe it just smoothed out the little "sparklies" at the edge.
I guess if you continue using the balsa for maintenance the edge will reach more or less an equilibrium state, where you are only maintaining the convex geometry. Seems like a really simple and good system if you are not that interested in using expensive stones.
I like my stones, but there is also something interesting about different abrasives on different substrates. Even lapping film on different backing.
I have worked with metal fatigue in steel design. The pasted convex edge should at least in theory be more durable.

Yes, you get some convexing. When you use "Normal" pressure. There are a few refinements at play here. First, the balsa is fairly thin which reduces deformation due to swelling. Second, it is fixed to a backing that does not flex significantly and is light enough to comfortably hold in hand. Third, it is lapped. Fourth, it does not have a coating of paste. The abrasive is embedded in the balsa and all excess on the surface is wiped away. Finally, and most importantly for the preservation of a nice flat(ish) bevel, pressure is absolutely as light as humanly possible, less than the weight of the blade. Not your grampa's pasted strop. The pull strokes and SHORT x strokes at the finish certainly don't hurt anything.

What convexing does result, doesn't seem to be cumulative. It definitely reaches an equilibrium of sorts.

What most of us notice is that use of the .5μ diamond can feel somewhat "harsh" when shaving, less comfortable than a good 1μ or 12k synthetic edge and of course less comfortable than a good natural edge, and the .25μ even less comfortable, though cutting power is approaching the awesome level. However, the .1μ smooths it out somehow. There is definitely a comfort threshhold that you cross between .25μ and .1μ and TBH I have no explanation for that. It's just magic, I guess. I have gone finer than .1μ and I am not really sure I can tell any difference beyond .1μ. I think it is just too close to the physical limits of how sharp and smooth a piece of steel can be. A "perfect" Method edge compares favorably to the sharpest disposable steel blades made. Pretty sure that if Feather could make a sharper blade, they would.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

There was some discussion of tape honed razors earlier and whether they'd work with the method. I understand from a theoretical perspective why that's not optimal. Has anyone here tried taking a tape honed razor through the method? What were your results?

I ask, because I tried it, for the heck of it, on a 4/8 Barber's Pet that I'm not especially attached to. In reality it's about 7/16 now although it's been honed evenly through it's life. Regardless, the bevel angle was around 15 degrees so I ended honing it with tape (after not liking the shave the first time around).

I didn't expect much from the balsa progression, but it definitely improved. Mostly off the .5 balsa but there were smaller improvements through the other two. It's not as good as my others but then again it didn't start off as good as the others either. It's definitely an acceptable shaver though. I used the same light pressure through the process as I did on my other blades, for reference.

So, even though it shouldn't work, it did. To a point. Anyone else tried this?

 

[haggis]

So, even though it shouldn't work, it did. To a point. Anyone else tried this?

I have several razors I bought that I wasn't even aware were honed on tape and I put those into a balsa rotation without a thought. All good, and several taped edges improved noticeably. I balsa strop all comers.*

* I have several razors that have been gifted with truly comfortable edges by more skilled hands than mine, and I just leather strop those and will just carry on that way until forced to put my own grubby edge on them. After that, they will probably end up back on the balsa train unless/until I somehow develop more skills than I currently possess.

 

[rbscebu]

Another source for diamond paste is Razorsandmore on Esty. 0.1μm, 0.25μm and 0.5μm are about USD 11.50 each for a 10g syringe.

 

[rbscebu]

Another source for diamond paste is Razorsandmore on Esty. 0.1μm, 0.25μm and 0.5μm are about USD 11.50 each for a 10g syringe.

Razorsandmore are based in London, UK. Their international shipping charges are quite reasonable.

 

[wquiles]

OK, add me to the believers now. Thank you Slash McCoy and others in this thread

Been wet shaving since about 2012, and I have tried and given-up on straight razors many times in the last 7-8 years. Always trying something different, just to see if I can find that "combination" that works for me.

I tried honing with stones (DMT) and Belgium stones, and I have a c-nat - but no mater, I could get the straight razor "sharp", but never "quite" enough "AND" even if I got close, it would never last more than one shave. I tried some leather and cloth with 0.5u of various types, tried linen, etc.. I "could" get it the razor "close" to being good, but it would last only once (my beard is tough on the razors). I was never able to re-achieve that "good" shave after the first time.

I have two Feather straight razors (you can search in this forum for previous post/photos) and I now I found them "too sharp", regardless of how careful I am with technique. In fact, it is almost too stressful - not enjoyable. The only blades that I can tolerate are the "guard" style, but still just too darn sharp the 1st/2nd shave. But the shave with these replacement blades is too sharp when new, then they melow, and then they are not sharp enough as they loose that "magic" point of sharp but not too sharp.

I hate the lack of consistency in the shave with the Feathers, so I have gone back to safety razors two, even cartridge razors (I know, I know - shame on me). But I always come back to "try once more" with straight razors - I "love" the unique shave of a straight razor. I still "want" that "magical" feeling that I get with a straight razor, even if just for the one shave before it goes bad on me. So then I found this thread some months back, I read all 63x pages (64x now!), and decided - why not?

I am a hobby machinist (you can search older post/photos for my handiwork with Titanium), so I gave my lexan blocks groves on the sides and holes in the bottom (not through all of the way) to make them easier to grab, which also made them lighter even though they are 3/4" thick, by 3" wide, by 12" long as recommended in the guide (thank you rbscebu for the extra post/guide):

I found these cheap long paint brush boxes which fit these perfectly:

I did a straight/fixed handle and a cheap Gold Dollar:

So I followed "the method" fairly closely, the progression, down to 0.5, 0.25, and 0.1. And then leather strop before shaving. And I shaved a 4-5 day beard (whole face) - it was awesome. Very smooth. Sharp, but not "Feather" sharp, which is what I was hoping.

Then waited another 4-5 days, went back to the 0.1 which the method states to follow, and then leather strop. Then I shaved last night (Friday night). Oh my Lord. It was actually "smoother", than the first shave. For the first time "ever" the second shave was not only about the same (which would have been my "low bar"), but I was blown away at the smoothness of the second shave. Wow, just wow. Again, add me to the list of believers.

Will


PS, I took like 30 pictures of the whole process to make the strops - let me know if interested in seeing all of them, on this thread, or I can start a new thread just for the "project photos".

 

[Slash McCoy]

On your Feather shavettes, it is helpful to remember that the shave angle needs to be at absolute minimum, spine nearly dragging on the face, and that the skin must be stretched very tight. Minimal pressure, too. It is not necessary to get every whisker on the first stroke. Be patient.

I say this because when you truly nail a Method edge, your edge will be about as sharp as a Feather blade. And it is not something to fear, but something to welcome. So try to get in a few more sessions with the Feather, now and then.

It is very likely that your edge will actually improve with regular maintenance on the balsa, if you nail the whole minimal pressure, vertical balsa held in hand, thing.

Anyway welcome to the Method cult. It sounds like you are one of the chosen.

 

[wquiles]

On your Feather shavettes, it is helpful to remember that the shave angle needs to be at absolute minimum, spine nearly dragging on the face, and that the skin must be stretched very tight. Minimal pressure, too. It is not necessary to get every whisker on the first stroke. Be patient.

I say this because when you truly nail a Method edge, your edge will be about as sharp as a Feather blade. And it is not something to fear, but something to welcome. So try to get in a few more sessions with the Feather, now and then.

Thank you. I will be honest, I am too excited with the learning & practice I have yet to do with "the method" to consider trying the Feather blades again, but I will do my best to try remember this advice

It is very likely that your edge will actually improve with regular maintenance on the balsa, if you nail the whole minimal pressure, vertical balsa held in hand, thing.

Makes sense. I think it was you the one who said about the balsa almost being like "time travel", to go back to that pre-shave state. That promise of consistency and not having to re-hone, but to have a similar shave experience time and time again was the "missing piece" for me and shaving with straight razors. That was "the" main reason I decided to try straight razors once more with this method. Thanks again

Anyway welcome to the Method cult. It sounds like you are one of the chosen.

1-2 months back I was trying some adjustment to my razor honing/sharpening, found again that it was still not good enough, and found myself looking for something else to try. And it was blind luck that I decided to re-check the forum and ran into this thread - I think I just found the title interesting and decided to read a little about it. I even waited to order supplies until I read "all" pages - there are lots of little details here/there. Well, 63+ pages later, I realized this could be "it", and I am very happy I decided to join the cult

Will

 

[rbscebu]

@wquiles welcome to the dark side of our gentlemanly art. It only gets better.

 

[wquiles]

@wquiles welcome to the dark side of our gentlemanly art. It only gets better.

Thank you. Last night I shaved for the second time with the Gold Dollar, and as Slach McCoy predicted, it was slightly sharper than the first time. Another great shave with "The Method"

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I thought I'd report another experience with a tape-honed razor. I recently picked up a big Herder from Griffith, that Matt had honed with 8.5 mil tape on the spine. His edge was really quite nice. A 10 for comfort and maybe a 9 or 9.5 for sharpness. Not quite as sharp as some of my best method edges but really in the same ballpark. I went back and forth about whether to take it to the balsa or just shave with it until it needed a touch up. Of course I decided to Methodize it.

Now, initially it was HHT-3 with my hair post stropping on leather. This is pretty good, because my hairs don't cut easily on most edges. Maybe it's all the conditioner I use. Not sure. But I've had pro-honed edges that shaved great that wouldn't get past the violin stage with my hair, and my edges usually don't either, right off a 1u or .3u film. After shaving it was back to just violining.

I took it through a full balsa progression, actually about 90 laps plus pulls and short x-strokes. It was popping hairs loudly after the .5 and quietly after .25. The HHT got more effortless after .1. Still not quite sci-fi, hair falls apart at the merest touch of the blade, but close. And again, this might look different with different hair. But I work with what I have. Experience tells me this should be a very sharp edge. I guess I'll find out if it's still as comfortable when I shave. I hope so. If not, it should get there with more time on the .1 balsa.

I think I'm about .500 for Methodizing tape-honed edges. A couple didn't improve much. A couple did. This was one of them (pending tomorrow's shave test, of course).

 

[BBS Kirk]

OK, add me to the believers now. Thank you Slash McCoy and others in this thread

Been wet shaving since about 2012, and I have tried and given-up on straight razors many times in the last 7-8 years. Always trying something different, just to see if I can find that "combination" that works for me.

I tried honing with stones (DMT) and Belgium stones, and I have a c-nat - but no mater, I could get the straight razor "sharp", but never "quite" enough "AND" even if I got close, it would never last more than one shave. I tried some leather and cloth with 0.5u of various types, tried linen, etc.. I "could" get it the razor "close" to being good, but it would last only once (my beard is tough on the razors). I was never able to re-achieve that "good" shave after the first time.

I have two Feather straight razors (you can search in this forum for previous post/photos) and I now I found them "too sharp", regardless of how careful I am with technique. In fact, it is almost too stressful - not enjoyable. The only blades that I can tolerate are the "guard" style, but still just too darn sharp the 1st/2nd shave. But the shave with these replacement blades is too sharp when new, then they melow, and then they are not sharp enough as they loose that "magic" point of sharp but not too sharp.

I hate the lack of consistency in the shave with the Feathers, so I have gone back to safety razors two, even cartridge razors (I know, I know - shame on me). But I always come back to "try once more" with straight razors - I "love" the unique shave of a straight razor. I still "want" that "magical" feeling that I get with a straight razor, even if just for the one shave before it goes bad on me. So then I found this thread some months back, I read all 63x pages (64x now!), and decided - why not?

I am a hobby machinist (you can search older post/photos for my handiwork with Titanium), so I gave my lexan blocks groves on the sides and holes in the bottom (not through all of the way) to make them easier to grab, which also made them lighter even though they are 3/4" thick, by 3" wide, by 12" long as recommended in the guide (thank you rbscebu for the extra post/guide):
View attachment 1318769

View attachment 1318766


I found these cheap long paint brush boxes which fit these perfectly:

View attachment 1318768

I did a straight/fixed handle and a cheap Gold Dollar:
View attachment 1318770


So I followed "the method" fairly closely, the progression, down to 0.5, 0.25, and 0.1. And then leather strop before shaving. And I shaved a 4-5 day beard (whole face) - it was awesome. Very smooth. Sharp, but not "Feather" sharp, which is what I was hoping.

Then waited another 4-5 days, went back to the 0.1 which the method states to follow, and then leather strop. Then I shaved last night (Friday night). Oh my Lord. It was actually "smoother", than the first shave. For the first time "ever" the second shave was not only about the same (which would have been my "low bar"), but I was blown away at the smoothness of the second shave. Wow, just wow. Again, add me to the list of believers.

Will


PS, I took like 30 pictures of the whole process to make the strops - let me know if interested in seeing all of them, on this thread, or I can start a new thread just for the "project photos".

Please share pics. Congrats on a method edge. I’m going down the same rabbit hole. Loving the edges so far and I know they will only get better with more practice.

 

[wquiles]

First, not a question, but showing my newest razor processed with "The Method" - hope to shave with it today or tomorrow:

Second, an actual question. When I tried following "The Method" first, I chose a fixed straight and a Gold Dollar (GD). I have now shaved with both of them several times (doing the 0.1 and leather after each shave). The fixed straight is "sublime" - it is sharp but also incredibly smooth. It shaves great, and it is great on my face/skin. The GD, however, is either too sharp or just not quite "done" with "The Method" as it shaves well (it is sharp) but it is "hard" on my skin. I am wondering if this behavior with the GD is a "sign" that I need to re-do one or more of the 0.5, 0.25, or 0.1 steps again?

 

[steveclarkus]

I have the same problem with a new 5/8 Boker but I don’t particularly like the razor anyway as I prefer smaller more thinner ground blades. Eventually, I’ll probably do a bevel reset and start over and then maybe not.

 

[wquiles]

Please share pics. Congrats on a method edge. I’m going down the same rabbit hole. Loving the edges so far and I know they will only get better with more practice.

Here you go:
link to project pictures

 

[Darth Scandalous]

First, not a question, but showing my newest razor processed with "The Method" - hope to shave with it today or tomorrow:
View attachment 1323683


Second, an actual question. When I tried following "The Method" first, I chose a fixed straight and a Gold Dollar (GD). I have now shaved with both of them several times (doing the 0.1 and leather after each shave). The fixed straight is "sublime" - it is sharp but also incredibly smooth. It shaves great, and it is great on my face/skin. The GD, however, is either too sharp or just not quite "done" with "The Method" as it shaves well (it is sharp) but it is "hard" on my skin. I am wondering if this behavior with the GD is a "sign" that I need to re-do one or more of the 0.5, 0.25, or 0.1 steps again?

As I've been honing more razors and taking them through the balsa progression I've had a similar experience with some of them. I think it boils down to one of two things.

1. Sometimes they need more time on the balsa. I believe @rbscebu does a full progression,.5/.25/.1 after every shave until the edge is dialed in, then just .1 for maintenance. I've had a couple that responded well to this approach.

2. Sometimes the initial edge just wasn't that great. The rule of thumb seems to be that the Method *will* improve a shave ready edge. But, and this is a big but, the better the edge is initially, the better it will be after the Method. I have a couple that I had methodized early on, when my honing wasn't as good or consistent, that I've recently rehoned because their edges just weren't up snuff. This was after several shaves and balsa stropping and realizing they weren't going to improve any more.

All that said, last night I rehoned my 4/8 E.A. Berg, which was one of my early honing projects, and took it through the full Method again, and while it's indisputably very sharp, it's still only "acceptable" in terms of comfort. I'm hoping that it continues to improve with more balsa. I suspect it will; razors that take longer to hone seem to take longer to fully achieve the benefits of the Method edge, and this one took a while, like most of my other Swedish blades.

 

[BBS Kirk]

As I've been honing more razors and taking them through the balsa progression I've had a similar experience with some of them. I think it boils down to one of two things.

1. Sometimes they need more time on the balsa. I believe @rbscebu does a full progression,.5/.25/.1 after every shave until the edge is dialed in, then just .1 for maintenance. I've had a couple that responded well to this approach.

2. Sometimes the initial edge just wasn't that great. The rule of thumb seems to be that the Method *will* improve a shave ready edge. But, and this is a big but, the better the edge is initially, the better it will be after the Method. I have a couple that I had methodized early on, when my honing wasn't as good or consistent, that I've recently rehoned because their edges just weren't up snuff. This was after several shaves and balsa stropping and realizing they weren't going to improve any more.

All that said, last night I rehoned my 4/8 E.A. Berg, which was one of my early honing projects, and took it through the full Method again, and while it's indisputably very sharp, it's still only "acceptable" in terms of comfort. I'm hoping that it continues to improve with more balsa. I suspect it will; razors that take longer to hone seem to take longer to fully achieve the benefits of the Method edge, and this one took a while, like most of my other Swedish blades.

I’ve been doing a touch up on the full balsa progression after each shave. I have a razor that shaves nicely but I think it may improve some more if I continue going from 0.5-0.1 after each shave. I did 40 laps on each.

 

[Slash McCoy]

First, not a question, but showing my newest razor processed with "The Method" - hope to shave with it today or tomorrow:
View attachment 1323683


Second, an actual question. When I tried following "The Method" first, I chose a fixed straight and a Gold Dollar (GD). I have now shaved with both of them several times (doing the 0.1 and leather after each shave). The fixed straight is "sublime" - it is sharp but also incredibly smooth. It shaves great, and it is great on my face/skin. The GD, however, is either too sharp or just not quite "done" with "The Method" as it shaves well (it is sharp) but it is "hard" on my skin. I am wondering if this behavior with the GD is a "sign" that I need to re-do one or more of the 0.5, 0.25, or 0.1 steps again?

Can't hurt. Be sure to add some pull strokes and short x strokes. Especially the short X strokes, at the finish. Just pretend your balsa is only 4" long and you will get it just right.

Many people underestimate the hardness of the GD. The assumption is often that since it is Chinese, it is soft as butter and made from melted down refrigerators. It is actually somewhat variable, at least to my subjective observation. Some few specimens seem to be VERY hard. I put it down to good HT and quench, but incomplete or inconsistent tempering. Try doubling your lap count on the .1u, and be sure your pressure is dead light. Hold balsa in hand, vertical, end-up. It makes a difference. And yes, a couple more sessions ought to see a better edge in all respects on the GD.

Also, what model GD do you have? The "W" models behave differently from the rest. Some guys like them. I don't. My favorites are the 800, 300, 200, 100, 208, and P-81, and acceptable, the 66 and the two Gold Monkey models. I strongly dislike the 900 and the "W" models. Haven't tried the "R" models.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I’ve been doing a touch up on the full balsa progression after each shave. I have a razor that shaves nicely but I think it may improve some more if I continue going from 0.5-0.1 after each shave. I did 40 laps on each.

If progress seems to be stalled, try dropping the first two, and just use double the laps on the .1u. But as long as it keeps getting better, do what you are doing, of course.