How have Simpson brushes changed after having been acquired by Vulfix?

[J Carroll]

Hi, I'm fairly new to B&B. I imagine this question has been discussed before. If so, perhaps someone could just summarize the main conclusions reached in previous discussions? Here's the question:

Has the quality of Simpson brushes changed significantly since Simpson was acquired by Vulfix?

Mike Sandoval at Shaving 101 and Bruce at BruceOnShaving both recommend Simpson brushes. Sandoval suggests that they have stiffer backbones than Kent's and are better for hard soaps. Is that still true?

Thanks for any insight you can give me on this!

Joe

 

[celestino]

From my limited knowledge, i don't think the quality in the brushes has changed at all. They are still very, very good brushes.
It really depends on which Simpson brush you get, but i would definitely say that they have more backbone than Kent brushes.
Good luck.

 

[J Carroll]

From my limited knowledge, i don't think the quality in the brushes has changed at all. They are still very, very good brushes.
It really depends on which Simpson brush you get, but i would definitely say that they have more backbone than Kent brushes.
Good luck.

Thanks, Celestino. I was just reading a review and thread on a Simpson's Chubby 2 from back in 2007. The story then was that Simpson had been having quality control problems for two or three years. Losing bristles after a year of use seemed to be the main complaint. Some folks said that Simpson had been dealing with those, fixing resin issues. Now, that was six years ago. I wonder where things stand now. Back in 2007 Joel was saying he'd never buy another Simpson's brush--too much hassle and grief. I'd like to get a Simpson's, because of the fabled density, but I'm not sure if it would be prudent. I'd love to hear current reports on this quality control issue.

Joe

 

[AFG]

Simpson had some problems in the pre Vulfix era but that was several years ago and no reason to avoid buying now. Any brush company will at some time have a problem. Simpson offers a year warranty on their brushes. Almost always any shedding issue starts immediately and gets worse. A few hairs here and there is normal. To avoid buying something from what Joel said 6 years ago is silly. Joel was referring to problems current at that time not the current situation.

 

[Greg1911]

I have 6 or 7 Vulfix made Simpsons and they are all great brushes.

I'm a big fan of Simpson's Best hair. Nice balance between softness and scrub.

 

[J Carroll]

I have 6 or 7 Vulfix made Simpsons and they are all great brushes.

I'm a big fan of Simpson's Best hair. Nice balance between softness and scrub.

OK, thanks. That's good information.

Joe

 

[ChiefBroom]

OK, thanks. That's good information.

Joe

Hi, Joe. Welcome to B&B and the Shaving Brushes Forum. What's your budget, and what experience with brushes have you had so far.

I have a couple of brushes in Best (a 58 and a Chubby 2) that are exceptional, but some users (including me) can find Best to be a little too scritchy for comfort. That said, the 58 is one of my favorites, and I've found I can largely control the scritch. If you have highly sensitive skin, however, you might be better served by a softer silvertip.

I have at least a dozen Simpsons, and I like all of them. There are many other great choices available, however, and as much as I both respect the brand and appreciate the brushes, there are, I think, makers that offer better value in terms of quality and cost. I'd recommend also checking out Shavemac, Rooney, and Morris & Forndran, as well as Rudy Vey (whom I'd personally ask to price my brush with a Shavemac knot). There are others. I just don't have any experience with them.

 

[J Carroll]

Hi, Joe. Welcome to B&B and the Shaving Brushes Forum. What's your budget, and what experience with brushes have you had so far.

I have a couple of brushes in Best (a 58 and a Chubby 2) that are exceptional, but Best some users (including me) can find Best to be a little too scritchy for comfort. That said, the 58 is one of my favorites, and I've found I can largely control the scritch. If you have highly sensitive skin, however, you might be better served by a softer silvertip.

I have at least a dozen Simpsons, and I like all of them. There are many other great choices available, however, and as much as I both respect the brand and appreciate the brushes, there are, I think, makers that offer better value in terms of quality and cost. I'd recommend also checking out Shavemac, Rooney, and Morris & Forndran, as well as Rudy Vey (whom I'd personally ask to price my brush with a Shavemac knot). There are others. I just don't have any experience with them.

Ken, I bought three silvertips (two from Frank Shaving and one from New Forest), two supers (a Vulfix 374 and a New Forest 2031), one best (from Frank Shaving), two finest (two band) from Frank Shaving, and a pure from Frank Shaving. I've used them all except two that arrived today and the last of the two-bands (still waiting for that).

I was just reading in Fido's New Forest blog that he recommends that if you want to use hard soaps and you remain with the medium knot size (20-22), you should make sure to get a loft shorter than 50 mm. I hadn't paid any attention to loft length, only to knot size. All of my brushes fall within the 20-22 mm knot size range, except one at 23. And only two of them have loft lengths shorter than 50 mm.

But then I've also read that if you get decent quality brushes you can consider them "all rounders." I suppose also that by combining soaps and creams (superlathering) you can compensate for slightly longer lofts.

I've spent about all I can afford to spend at the moment (and a little more than that). I'm still thinking though of going back to Frank Shaving and getting another brush or two, with shorter lofts, specifically for use with hard soaps.

I had been thinking that for the next gift occasion (my birthday or Christmas), I might ask my wife to get me either a Simpson best or a Shavemac Super. Looks like I'll have to be more careful about correlating knot size and loft length, though.

I wonder how serious Fido's strictures on loft-length/knot-size correlations are for hard soaps.

I've only been at this a few weeks. I'm picking up information as I go, making mistakes, but learning.

****************

After I wrote this above, I went and looked again at the New Forest brushes. I was checking to see what else Fido offered that was a 22 knot and less than 50 mm loft. I noticed that in one case he seems to fudge the line on his own criteria for knot/loft proportions for hard soaps. The case is that of the New Forest 2204 Super Badger Two Band. Two of the brushes I got from Frank Shaving (a silvertip and a two-band) are 22 knot and 50 loft. I suspect that they would pass over also into the "all rounder" category, suitable for hard soaps as well as creams.

I'd be glad to get more information and some experienced judgment on this issue!

**************

Ah! I ran across a guide on B&B by Chris. He lays out criteria than are not so binding as those suggested by Fido. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...rush-Guide-Bristle-Height?p=850831#post850831 (11/14/2008). He doesn't suggest a strict ratio between knot size and loft size. Instead, he divides knot sizes into three categories:

50mm and under: short loft that will make a brush feel more dense/stiffer and works great for soaps and face-lathering.
50mm – 55mm: medium loft with average splay/stiffness – good all ‘rounder brushes.
Over 55mm: long loft – very flexible to floppy loft that tends to work best with creams.


Since most of my brushes are within the 50-55 loft range, I suppose I could just call them all all-rounders and stop worrying about it.

I'm still tempted to get one clear-cut hard-soap face-lathering brush from Frank Shaving. It's pretty cheap ($30 with postage): 21 mm knot, 42 mm loft, in two-band. A real stubby.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280773685417

I've been reading around about preferences in knot sizes and see that a lot of people (including Fido) talk about the mid-size brushes (20-22 or 23 mm knot) as most suitable for most people. Ken has a guide also on knot size: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/46430-B-amp-B-Brush-Guide-Knot-Size?p=585447#post585447

He again breaks it up into three categories: small, medium and large.

Small: Under 20mm diameter
Medium: Between 20mm and 23mm diameter
Large: Over 24mm diameter

His summary gives a good indication of what brushes work well in what situations, and for whom:

"If you like creams, I think that anything in the medium to large (20mm to 26mm or above) range will work just fine, with the final decision being based on your personal size preference;

If you like soaps and/or build lather on your face, I suggest a small to medium brush – in my view, the sweet spot is the 20mm to 22mm. I find small brushes easier to load up with soap and easier to control/neater when face lathering. You can certainly go bigger, but I don’t suggest anything much over 22mm (the 23mm Shavemacs being an exception – but only because that’s the size the production models come in) as a dedicated soap/face lathering brush.

If you want an all-around brush, I suggest sticking with something in the medium range (20mm to 23mm) – these are the most common diameters for the simple reason that they work well for most guys regardless of product or lather technique preferences. The brushes in this size also tend to offer the best priceerformance ratio (at least in my view)."

I'll probably stick to the 20-23 range, settling mostly on 22. And I'll probably stick with super or two-band, maybe sometimes a silvertip. Cost is a real factor for me, all the more reason to stay in the mid-range on knot size. And that would suit my face best too. Generally, I would prefer all-rounders, brushes that work with both soaps and creams.

Joe

 

[Galhatz]

Joe, there is so much that you can learn from reading what other people write because it is a very subjective area.
Sometimes a brush is just a brush, and with sample to sample variations, there is no much point for diving into deep dry research.

It boils down mostly to budget and for each price point you can find a loose consensus or at least a few well liked brushes.

Speaking from my experience, i have a duke2 in best. It is very nice, not the softest which has its place, especially when i have a two-day beard. I have big hands I am not thrilled with that handle shape which dominates almost the entire Simpsons line, but a lot of people love it. It does look very classy. To get higher grade hair or larger handle one would need to shell a pretty penny and I am not convinced it's worth it, at least for as far as my preferences are concerned, while there are other alternatives that are truly superb (da vinci comes to mind).

So having said that, what is your budget and what are your looking for on a brush?

 

[J Carroll]

Joe, there is so much that you can learn from reading what other people write because it is a very subjective area.
Sometimes a brush is just a brush, and with sample to sample variations, there is no much point for diving into deep dry research.

It boils down mostly to budget and for each price point you can find a loose consensus or at least a few well liked brushes.

Speaking from my experience, i have a duke2 in best. It is very nice, not the softest which has its place, especially when i have a two-day beard. I have big hands I am not thrilled with that handle shape which dominates almost the entire Simpsons line, but a lot of people love it. It does look very classy. To get higher grade hair or larger handle one would need to shell a pretty penny and I am not convinced it's worth it, at least for as far as my preferences are concerned, while there are other alternatives that are truly superb (da vinci comes to mind).

So having said that, what is your budget and what are your looking for on a brush?

Galhatz, I don't yet have a best badger hair brush. I have one coming from Frank Shaving (23 knot/54 loft). I'll see how my face takes to it.

For birthday or Christmas, I was thinking a price point in the $120 range. I could get a Shavemac in that range. On my Amazon wish list, I put in Simpson Duke 3 in Best and a Simpson Chubby 1 in best. I've heard that the Simpson's best badger hair is as soft as some supers from other brands. I'd like to get a good all-rounder--a brush I can use with hard soap alone, or with cream, or with both together. A shorter loft seems to be a factor there. Is it true that finest (two-band) has better backbone for soaps than silvertip? And best, are they also a bit stiffer? I imagine density has something to do also with how well a brush handles hard soap.

I don't have big hands or a big face. So I'm probably not going to go over a 23 or at most 24 mm knot. 22 seems to be a sweet spot.
So, I guess I'd be looking for something that

(1) has good density
(2) has a relatively short loft (50 mm or less)
(3) is in either best, super, or two-band
(4) has a knot of 21-23 mm
(4) costs only about $120.

I would be glad to hear of suggestions that might come within that range of specifications.

Thanks for your input!

Joe

 

[whavens]

I have 6 Simpson brushes. Three of them are post-Vulfix and they are superb brushes. I have had no issues with hiar loss on any of them and the Rover I bought a few months ago is one of my favorite brushes. As with any handmade item, sometimes there is a variance that is uncontrollable, but I think you will find that Simpson will take care of any issues you encounter within the first year of purchase. Most defects will raise their head by that time. I would not hesitate to buy another.

 

[J Carroll]

I have 6 Simpson brushes. Three of them are post-Vulfix and they are superb brushes. I have had no issues with hiar loss on any of them and the Rover I bought a few months ago is one of my favorite brushes. As with any handmade item, sometimes there is a variance that is uncontrollable, but I think you will find that Simpson will take care of any issues you encounter within the first year of purchase. Most defects will raise their head by that time. I would not hesitate to buy another.

OK, thanks. That helps. I'm now fully reassured about the Simpson's. I'm going to be looking for a densely packed brush, so that I can use it easily with hard soaps. Looks as if Simpson's would be a good choice for that.

Joe

 

[Galhatz]

Galhatz, I don't yet have a best badger hair brush. I have one coming from Frank Shaving (23 knot/54 loft). I'll see how my face takes to it.

For birthday or Christmas, I was thinking a price point in the $120 range. I could get a Shavemac in that range. On my Amazon wish list, I put in Simpson Duke 3 in Best and a Simpson Chubby 1 in best. I've heard that the Simpson's best badger hair is as soft as some supers from other brands. I'd like to get a good all-rounder--a brush I can use with hard soap alone, or with cream, or with both together. A shorter loft seems to be a factor there. Is it true that finest (two-band) has better backbone for soaps than silvertip? And best, are they also a bit stiffer? I imagine density has something to do also with how well a brush handles hard soap.

I don't have big hands or a big face. So I'm probably not going to go over a 23 or at most 24 mm knot. 22 seems to be a sweet spot.
So, I guess I'd be looking for something that

(1) has good density
(2) has a relatively short loft (50 mm or less)
(3) is in either best, super, or two-band
(4) has a knot of 21-23 mm
(4) costs only about $120.

I would be glad to hear of suggestions that might come within that range of specifications.

Thanks for your input!

Joe

Yes, 2-band has more backbone than silvertip and is very soft at the tips. I have no idea how Frank Shaving's "best" grade compares with other brands "best". In addition to the Duke 2 (in best), my other two "higher end" brushes are Kent BK8 and Da Vinci 293. Simpsons "best" hair is soft but nothing like a high quality silvertip like Kent or Da Vinci.

My favorite brush, however, is Da Vinci 293. The knot is excellent and the handle is superb. If I had to have only one brush - that would be it. Comparing the Duke 2 to the 293. They are about the same price (there is a 33% off coupon on Da Vinci, ends today I think). Manufacturing costs wise, both knots are hand tied by fully paid EU workers. The Simpsons handle is hand turned, I am not sure of the Da Vinci, but the later is better designed. The 293's construction is of very high quality, it is evident. The Duke lost 6 hairs in the first few lathers, the 293 lost none. Because of the shorter loft the Duke has a more backbone and it loft/density make it a bit scrubbier. The 293 is softer, has a larger "foot print" on the face and well sufficient backbone. Was I impressed with the Duke as I was with Da Vinci 293? no. I feel the 293 is a better product in design and in quality. To get that quality in Simpsons I'd (probably) have to pay a lot more and I am not that curious to see what's waiting for me if I pay north of $150. I was more interested, for example, to explore the Kent brand and I am glad I did. The bk8 (~$110) is a wonderful brush, very soft and on the larger side but a lot of fun to use.

There is nothing wrong with Simpsons, I wanted to try it out because of the immense buzz around that brand and the Duke line in particular. I am glad I did. It is a nice brush and I will keep it in my rotation. It has it's own character and there are days that I feel like reaching out to it.

The brand has the history, the classic look and it is pretty good quality, but remember that you are paying for the sticker as well. For me, this hobby is about enjoyment, it doesn't have to be practical, so I am OK about that.

Also, as always, all of the above is my opinion, based on my preferences and my skin on my face.

 

[J Carroll]

Thanks, Galhatz. I was not familiar with the Da Vinci 293. I looked it up. A beautiful brush. I have several brushes in that dimension range, though. I'm now in the market for something with a shorter loft, more oriented to hard soap and face lathering, but still an all-rounder. I'm still giving close consideration to the Duke 2 or Duke 3 in best badger. But the brush I think I would most like to get, at least at the moment, is a Shavemac D01 167-2b in 22 knot/44 loft. It's a silvertip but would be stiff. You can get it in black or ivory, fan or bulb.

http://www.shavemac.com/products/Sh...2B-Handmade-Extra-Silver-Tip-Quality-D01.html

Joe

 

[u2u]

Hi, I'm fairly new to B&B. I imagine this question has been discussed before. If so, perhaps someone could just summarize the main conclusions reached in previous discussions? Here's the question:

Has the quality of Simpson brushes changed significantly since Simpson was acquired by Vulfix?

Mike Sandoval at Shaving 101 and Bruce at BruceOnShaving both recommend Simpson brushes. Sandoval suggests that they have stiffer backbones than Kent's and are better for hard soaps. Is that still true?

Thanks for any insight you can give me on this!

Joe

I have been using Simpson brushes or 15 years or so. Never seen a shedder nor heard of one locally. I have more or less retired my Kent's, Rooneys, and branded brushes in favour of Simpsons. Some people have extraordinary luck running into off products and their experiences are reported and repeated ad nauseum on the net greatly magnifying a few problems.


Most of the products I use, from shoes, to motorcycles, cars, watches, and so on I would not have bought based on available negative Internet reports. Be aware of net effect.


To the quality question, has it changed? Yes, in that newer production techniques have all but eliminated the lath turned character of their brushes. This is most notable with the current flat bottom vs the dished bottoms of past. Also notable are changes in the markings going from a lamp black that wears readily and was often misaligned to modern precision engraving and paint fill. Decals of past were delicate and prone to loss. Now they are self adhesive plastic that is bullet proof. In my opinion their present hair grading is more consistent but a vender, who handles large volumes would provide a more informed opinion. Quality has always been high but has increased like the rest of the market. In contrast, character of the product is down. Mark at Simpsons has addressed this through Limited Editions and your ability to place a custom order through him.


My first two brushes were Kents. In the local market of the day they were tops. My first Simpson, a Somerset Duke 2 in best, was so superior the more expensive Kents were set aside. They, I found with growing experience, lacked backbone and under performed compared to my Simpsons and Rooneys.


I think you have been given the straight goods. I don't do brush reviews but I do my best to follow the market and acquire what meets my needs. I will pay the price for quality and performance and once the price is paid I expect delivery in full. No business nor side interests in the shave industry, just a fastidious consumer. My vote and cash has gone to Simpsons repeatedly because they deliver every time.

Many other choices out there and recently, on another forum with very knowledgeable Simpsons fans, Mark was so gracious as to post a good list of his competition.


Hope you meet with success in your brush choice.

 

[wagstaff]

I bought a Simpsons Duke 2 in Best and think it my best face-latherer, for creams or for hard soaps. I later bought, on B/S/T, a Colonel X2L, which the seller said he thought had particularly soft tips.
The softness of the tips on the two brushes is equal. I don't find them scritchy at all.

I hear that Simpsons hair is variable, one brush to the next, so maybe I just got two that were on the softer side of the range. I don't know.

I also have a Simpsons Case in Pure. That's scritchy as can be. With a light touch it's not bothersome. Not my favorite face latherer, but it is a beast when it comes to loading and lathering hard soaps.

I have two brushes in TGN Finest. Both are very good soap rippers; one has a 45mm loft, the other a 50. Really for a "beginner" on some harder soaps, these are easier to lather with than the Simpsons Best. Ultimately, for how much water and lather they hold, and for flow-through, I prefer the Best. (I could live with any of them, though, ultimately -- and don't mean to collect brushes. I just "had to know" about these different knot. Want to know about others, too, but budget is tight, and I do real well with what I have!)

 

[J Carroll]

Thanks, u2u and Wagstaff. Your testimony does give me a strong confidence in a Simpson Duke best. That looks as if it might well be my next option.

Joe

 

[J Carroll]

OK, I yielded to an impulse, after looking over the Simpson Duke 2 and Duke 3 one more time. Went to Superior Shave, not intending yet to buy, only to look. But they did a real sales job--just stuck out individual brushes, with exact measurements for each one. I took a Duke 2. $93. Free shipping. 22 x 45.

Thanks again, guys. This will be my first really good brush. Feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.

Joe

 

[wagstaff]

I really hope you still are feeling like a "thank you" after you use it!
It's a great brush, I'm confident you'll dig it.

 

[J Carroll]

I really hope you still are feeling like a "thank you" after you get it.
It's a great brush, I'm confident you'll dig it.

I'm very confident that I shall be very happy with this brush. Can't wait to get it!

Joe