Brush Chronicles #17: Zenith Manchurian Copper XXL

[WThomas0814]

The only tolerable bowl lather I got with this knot was to have it barely damp before I loaded. Squeeze ALL the water out, flick it, then try loading and going to your bowl. with the resulting paste. I have no knowledge of your soap, but, this worked (Foolproof Lather Discovery Process) to some level.

I will never bowl lather mine again, but, it is a really nice face lathering brush. A shame, really; that handle begs to be bowl lathered. I have the same ivory handle on a Zenith boar and it is a fantastic bowl latherer.

 

[BigJ]

EXCELLENT review!!

And a lovely brush!!

 

[Guido75]

That lather looks too hydrated, but I'm no expert

You might be right Mitch. Mike’s Natural usually needs more water, but in doing so I might have overdone it.

The only tolerable bowl lather I got with this knot was to have it barely damp before I loaded.

I might try that next Bill.

Thanks!

 

[Guido75]

I followed Bill’s @WThomas0814 advice and loaded for the usual 15 counts with a nearly dry brush. A good excuse to use my lathering bowl again.

While my lather was certainly better than days before it still wasn’t great.

Better. Still not great.

• Guido75
• Jan 16, 2025

Much better longevity (if that’s a word to use with lather) or consistency across passes, but still on the film side of things.

I have made the decision to finish this Chronicle with harder soaps and face lathering as I think that fits this brush much better.

 

[blethenstrom]

As it happens, I used this brush today.


View attachment 1969230


Here are my notes for today's shave with the magnificent copper handled Zenith Manchurian. I've probably used this brush between 150 and 200 times. Each of those shaves has been documented in the thread linked, my Damn Comfortable Shave thread.


View attachment 1969232


The knot starts off with enormous backbone because it's actually a transplant. After I had ordered the brush and was expecting it soon, friends warned me to be careful with it, its scrub being akin to a wire brush. They were right.

I've said many times that this is my favorite brush. Whether that's still true now that my collection has grown is a bit up in the air, but there's no question about the merits of the knot as it has broken in, developed, evolved, changed over time. It still has excellent backbone. It now has delicious scrub without a trace of scratch or scritch. It is soft both splayed and mashed and when painting.

View attachment 1969235

A couple of years ago, most of all my brushes were photographed as a group. Now I have a good many more. My newer brushes are rather high end not that what I had two years ago was shabby.​

I have plenty of excellent brushes including a good many great Semogue Limited Edition beauties, several wonderful Saponificio Varesino SV 2.0 brushes and SV Limited Edition brushes, several incredible Mozingo knots in various handles, several Simpsons including their Manchurian and Silvertip two band, a good selection of really fine Shavemacs, etc.

Whether what I said this morning about the Zenith knot is true, in my subjective opinion, depends on which brush I used on a given morning, but it is a damn good knot and a great brush. Just be aware of how it changes over time.

At present, it is a very hard to beat knot. The handle is equally good. What a great brush for a Brush Chronicle!

Happy shaves,

Jim

P.S. I've heard some of these brushes are somewhat unlike mine, as Adam mentions. My other Zenith Manchurian is also somewhat different, but it has a significantly higher loft.

Hey @Balin see that brush collection? You might have a bit work to do to match @Chan Eil Whiskers's collection there.

 

[blethenstrom]

So this has been my gear so far for the new year. As you can see, I have let the brush (2 years owned) develop its patina. The bristles are soft but with backbone. Being a face latherer, I have no complaints about the bristles, the splay, it's release of lather, or how it produces lather.

Of course, with a D.R. Harris soap, there aren't any issues with producing lather.

The razor blade combo has to be one of the smoothest I have ever experienced-and why I'm using this combo for several shaves. I'm not one who espouses the differences in shaves between a low-cost razor vs. a high-cost razor. Having said that however, the Timeless SS .95 (bronze cap, ss baseplate and Ti Crown handle) has truly been an eye opener. The Polsilver I loaded in it had been used 2-3x previously and has provided some of my best shaves EVER.

is it the scallops? Don't know. Is it because it costs more? Don't know. Better quality? Definitely in fit and finishes available. The 1st razor that really impressed me was the RR GameChanger SS .95. That razor allowed me to get the best out of my Feather blades-I don't use any other blade when using any of my GameChangers. However, the Timeless SS. 95 is definitely on another level. My neck is a tricky area that will let me know if my technique isn't right. Absolutely no issues using the Timeless on this area.

I truly have to thank Kim(Phoenixkh) for putting this on the BST.

The Zenith brush whipped up a lather that was creamy and thick on my face and head. It provided the scrub while still being soft. It released the lather I needed on the 2nd pass (both areas) while still having enough in the brush for another pass if needed.

If this razor and brush had been around when I started, I could see myself being a minimalist.

marty

Hagerstown, MD nice. I lived in Inwood, WV for 18 years, just 25 min south of you along the good ol' I-81. Former "neighbor" pretty cool. Live in Raleigh, NC nowadays though. Greetings. btw have a Krumpe's donut for me!

 

[Balin]

Hey @Balin see that brush collection? You might have a bit work to do to match @Chan Eil Whiskers's collection there.

@Chan Eil Whiskers has a great collection!! One day I will get there, but not this year . I have to refresh my rotation. Maybe I will pull some out of storage this weekend and swap some other in. I wonder if it will trick my brain into thinking I have something new .

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Hey @Balin see that brush collection? You might have a bit work to do to match @Chan Eil Whiskers's collection there.

@Chan Eil Whiskers has a great collection!! One day I will get there, but not this year . I have to refresh my rotation. Maybe I will pull some out of storage this weekend and swap some other in. I wonder if it will trick my brain into thinking I have something new .

I don't plan to buy any more.

Famous last words.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Guido75]

Face lather with Hampshire Wool Fat today. About 15 counts of loading and a nice and gentle face lather later it was all good. Good thickness and slickness, although I also have more of a painting motion during the second and third pass. It appeared the brush was slowly hogging on those two passes.

The brush tips are soft and gentle which I like and the face lathering for pass one - essentially the preparing of the beard lather pass - was just wonderful.

 

[drydown]

Lately I added the 506 Silvertip and Manchurian with the barber pole handle. Apart from the lovely handle I picked these, because I assumed that they are less dense than the AK models with similar knot specs. With my diverse Chubby 2 and 3, I wanted to add a bit less density.
After I got those Zeniths I am even more sure that I was right and that the AK Zeniths would have been to close to my 26 (29.5 at the exit) and 30 mm Maseto Manchurian. The Masetos are less dense than my Chubby 2 Silvertip, but so is my Chubby 2 Best Badger, but after all these are all tightly packed and I bet your Zenith here is also more that and has the AK knot.

In my eyes such brushes are made for face lathering like there is no tomorrow. Some months ago while looking for input on the Varlet Gaslamp, I came across this video and the guy inspired me to do exactly this.
A few years ago I became tired of slowly building the lather on my face and effectively loaded huge amounts from my soaps in no time and then mostly simply painted.
I switched to his way using D.R. Harris and Haslinger soaps. My lather was great before, but now it's truly gorgeous. As he says somewhere under one of his videos: „Load it like you stole it and then add water!“

He has disabled embedded playback, you have to click on the '„Watch on YouTube“ link in the frame:

Here is a detailed video about it, but be warned, this is not for the faint hearted. It's soo decadent, I love it!

 

[Guido75]

Thanks @drydown. He is certainly a heavier loader than I am. He uses his proto lather as preshave which is interesting and lets that sit on his skin. I get that from his point of view as he doesn’t appear to be shaving daily. I use a separate preshave soap.

Loading like this would certainly help in getting through my stash! What potentially worries me is that my sink might clog up. There is certainly some soap residue built up when I use soaps that are heavier on the tallow. Like Mike’s for some reason.

Nice video’s! He certainly knows his straight razor shave stuff.

 

[purecro]

Yea that is some lather made in that videos, that is for sure. Nice videos to share.

Btw very nice brush @Guido75, I like my Zenith Manchurians, they are really good brushes.

 

[Guido75]

Btw very nice brush @Guido75, I like my Zenith Manchurians, they are really good brushes.

Thanks! It is indeed a wonderful blade.

 

[drydown]

Thanks @drydown. He uses his proto lather as preshave which is interesting and lets that sit on his skin. I get that from his point of view as he doesn’t appear to be shaving daily. I use a separate preshave soap.

I don't use any preshave products and I do that too, when I have the time. He calls it 'the poor people's preshave'.

Also he applies the remaining lather after the shave, before washing it off of course, for a better protection as he says.

Loading like this would certainly help in getting through my stash!

I always have at least 10 pucks as a back up, so I never get anxious.

I already loaded mucho product before, but yeah, it's certainly more doing it his way, but in any case I never have go back to the puck.

 

[drydown]

Yea that is some lather made in that videos, that is for sure. Nice videos to share.

Thx! Yeah, I find he is pretty creative and instantly thought „Hey, this guy bathes in lather even more than I do!“ And then noticed that he get's excellent results.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I always face lather and I always use too much soap.

It's easy to get the water/hydration right after the soap is applied with this or any other brush.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Phoenixkh]

I only bowl lather, as my skin doesn’t like that much exposure to the bristles and soap. I have no problem bowl lathering with any of my brushes, including the very fine Zenith Manchurian. Mine is the 506 handle shape in solid copper and is a 27.5 mm, supposedly. As has been mentioned, mine was decent right out of the box and has steadily improved.

 

[Guido75]

Thanks again to @drydown (Vielen Dank!) for posting the lathering videos. Using that intel I loaded the Zenith with Proraso this morning while the brush was still dry (no soaking or dipping at all). I normally scoop Proraso, it this time I went straight to the puck / tub. Very gentle pressure and just swirling it around. Definitely for a longer time than I usually do - I haven’t timed it, but let’s say it was at least double the time.

I then went to my wonderful Bill’s Bowl (copper Captain’s Choice) and started spreading the soap from the brush. Still no water, but I quickly and shortly dipped the brush into the water and proceeded lathering up. I had to refrain myself from Hulk-smashing the brush into the bowl and just continue swirling around. Very very quickly lathering started to build up. I was tempted to stop, but with the intel from the Stirling video I gave it one more dip and did another round of lathering up.

The results were absolutely 180 degrees different from before and rather splendid.

Full blown lather

• Guido75
• Jan 19, 2025

As you can see in the bowl, there is some air bubbles left, but I decided to stop there short of the risk of lather breaking down again. And this is after I scooped up the lather with my brush for the first pass.

Full brush - Eureka

• Guido75
• Jan 19, 2025

Applying the lather was primarily done using painting motions, however, this time I didn’t mind as I had plenty of lather to go about. I had enough lather for 3 passes while face shaving and even two passes for head shaving.

So I can now safely say that the Zenith brush is also very capable of bowl lathering - I just need to use more soap! World order insight I know, but there you go.

 

[beginish]

Fine work with this, fellas. It’s nice to see these threads come back.

 

[htownmmm]

I don't plan to buy any more.

Famous last words.

Happy shaves,

Jim

marty