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Brush Chronicles #17: Zenith Manchurian Copper XXL

Guido75

Is it swell time?
B&B Community, I proudly present B&B’s next Brush Chronicle. Brush Chronicles are B&B's in depth examination of shaving brushes that puts them through their paces in all manner of uses. We hope to show what a brush can do and how well it can do it. The format is designed for one to two people to lead the discussion, posting regularly over the course of two weeks and recounting their experiences using the brush in question. The best Chronicles are those where many members join in the discussion and share their experiences. And the more pictures the better (even though I am a lousy photographer which is probably why I don’t post much photos to begin with).


The Manchurian - brought to me by the eminent Adam and John (aka @flask28 and @Tanuki) - is my most premium brush. From what I have found on the web (info from The Gentle Shave) this bad boy comes with a 28+mm knot measuring at 51mm loft, with an effective loft of 42-45mm. It weighs about 110 grams because of the solid copper handle. The height of the brush is about 115mm. Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers has written extensively (for example here on its first outing and here on perhaps more accurate measures). I thought it would be fitting for BADGERary to use a badger brush and why not my best of the best. It is also a brush I haven’t used extensively yet so it will be interesting to experience if there are any changes after a longer period of usage.

As usual I will be using the brush with a variety of soaps and for face and head shaving alike.

Today I started out with a croap - Proraso Green - which I smeared across my Captain’s Choice Bowl.


The Zenith had zero trouble in whipping up a great and rich lather.



This is a very dense brush and what I found in bringing the lather to my face is that it is not a splaying applicator, but rather a painting brush. I needed only painting motions to get the lather onto my face. Using a rotation motion with splay as I do when face lathering only drove the lather into the brush rather than onto my face.

The brush was damp, but maybe I need to soak it for a longer time than I do with boars and synthetics. That is exactly the point of doing these chronicles. Because a painting motion was more appropriate today I had more lather available for the final pass than I normally do. Post shave there was still plenty left.


And when I squeezed the brush for rinsing and cleaning all that glorious lather surfaced from the hairs. I might need to use the tips more tomorrow than the entire brush. That might be it.

In terms of feel the brush packs a firm amount of backbone yet feels soft to the face. A lovely and comfortable scritch.

If you have one yourself feel free to post your thoughts and experiences in this thread!
 

Guido75

Is it swell time?
I cannot follow you on this one, although I did consider updating my GRUYERE exception to a nice badger brush so I am interested to see how it all turns out.
No worries Jim. I plan to do a second Brush Chronicle in two weeks time. Likely with the Simpson T3 or perhaps even my favourite brush of all time - the Razorock 400.

Any synthetics you fancy? Or is it boar all the way?
 
No worries Jim. I plan to do a second Brush Chronicle in two weeks time. Likely with the Simpson T3 or perhaps even my favourite brush of all time - the Razorock 400.

Any synthetics you fancy? Or is it boar all the way?

All my synthetics are cheapie Yaqis. I am quite happy with them - they do what I want for a synthetic and my brief experiments with other synthetic knots have disappointed me enough that I don't think I want to spring for a G5 or an STF - it doesn't make sense to me to buy synthetics that are praised for imitating badger, when I don't particularly like badger, but I do want to try and give my three badger brushes some more air time in 2025 to see if I can learn to like them.
 
[...] The brush was damp, but maybe I need to soak it for a longer time than I do with boars and synthetics.[...]


[...] If you have one yourself feel free to post your thoughts and experiences in this thread!

I hesitated with my post because of the latter as I don't have this exact knot and just want to say: To my knowledge as well as from my experience badger hair does not absorb water, it just holds it between the hairs. So no need to soak it long for that purpose.
(But I always have the head rest in water for some minutes prior use to dissolve / soften the remains from older soap as well as from hard water. With rinsing you never get totally rid of that stuff, even less so with big, dense knots.)

I have many comparable badgers, all dense, most of them similar sized and some of them Manchurian, I have a good idea about the joy this brush will bring you. Enjoy! 😎
 
My impression is that badger does not soak up water in the same way as boar or synthetic. Boar actually absorbs water into the bristle to some extent, with the bristles becoming less opaque. Synthetics absorb water through ordinary capillary action with lots of small fibers. Badger being natural and having directional hairs like boar, absorbs a little bit of water into the hairs, and being finer than boar, absorbs more water onto the hair surfaces through capillary action, but not as much as synthetics. The scales cause the hairs to shed water, especially when moved or shaken.
 
B&B Community, I proudly present B&B’s next Brush Chronicle. Brush Chronicles are B&B's in depth examination of shaving brushes that puts them through their paces in all manner of uses. We hope to show what a brush can do and how well it can do it. The format is designed for one to two people to lead the discussion, posting regularly over the course of two weeks and recounting their experiences using the brush in question. The best Chronicles are those where many members join in the discussion and share their experiences. And the more pictures the better (even though I am a lousy photographer which is probably why I don’t post much photos to begin with).


The Manchurian - brought to me by the eminent Adam and John (aka @flask28 and @Tanuki) - is my most premium brush. From what I have found on the web (info from The Gentle Shave) this bad boy comes with a 28+mm knot measuring at 51mm loft, with an effective loft of 42-45mm. It weighs about 110 grams because of the solid copper handle. The height of the brush is about 115mm. Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers has written extensively (for example here on its first outing and here on perhaps more accurate measures). I thought it would be fitting for BADGERary to use a badger brush and why not my best of the best. It is also a brush I haven’t used extensively yet so it will be interesting to experience if there are any changes after a longer period of usage.

@Chan Eil Whiskers and I compared notes on this brush when I had it and I was surprised to find our experiences differed some. Based on his description of his brush, which was bootbrush-like - super firm backbone and not the softest tips - I was expecting a similarly long break in time like he described.

But instead the bush you have came pretty soft out of the box. Hardly "super stiff" in comparison to my other brushes, in fact it's somewhat softer than my Mozingos. I think @Phoenixkh had a similar experience with his, that is wasn't super stiff like Jim's. As I recall he compares his favorably to his SV brushes in firmness.

Our conclusion was there seems to be some significant variety between Zenith's Manchurian knots. Or that Jim got an outlier? An early one? Who knows.

This will be an exciting Chronicle! Thanks @Guido75!
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
As it happens, I used this brush today.


1-1-25.Sailor.FlyingMango.ZenCopMan.640.JPG



Here are my notes for today's shave with the magnificent copper handled Zenith Manchurian. I've probably used this brush between 150 and 200 times. Each of those shaves has been documented in the thread linked, my Damn Comfortable Shave thread.


Backbone.Dino..jpeg


The knot starts off with enormous backbone because it's actually a transplant. After I had ordered the brush and was expecting it soon, friends warned me to be careful with it, its scrub being akin to a wire brush. They were right.

I've said many times that this is my favorite brush. Whether that's still true now that my collection has grown is a bit up in the air, but there's no question about the merits of the knot as it has broken in, developed, evolved, changed over time. It still has excellent backbone. It now has delicious scrub without a trace of scratch or scritch. It is soft both splayed and mashed and when painting.


3-24.22. All My Brushes. Shelves.640JPG.JPG

A couple of years ago, most of all my brushes were photographed as a group.

Now I have a good many more. My newer brushes are rather high end not that what I had two years ago was shabby.​


I have plenty of excellent brushes including a good many great Semogue Limited Edition beauties, several wonderful Saponificio Varesino SV 2.0 brushes and SV Limited Edition brushes, several incredible Mozingo knots in various handles, several Simpsons including their Manchurian and Silvertip two band, a good selection of really fine Shavemacs, etc.

Whether what I said this morning about the Zenith knot is true, in my subjective opinion, depends on which brush I used on a given morning, but it is a damn good knot and a great brush. Just be aware of how it changes over time.

At present, it is a very hard to beat knot. The handle is equally good. What a great brush for a Brush Chronicle!

Happy shaves,

Jim

P.S. I've heard some of these brushes are somewhat unlike mine, as Adam mentions. My other Zenith Manchurian is also somewhat different, but it has a significantly higher loft.
 
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Guido75

Is it swell time?
Second day using Proraso and bowl lathering with the Captain’s Choice Copper Bowl. Lathering up was again easy. I paid more attention to the way I hydrated the brush and I only dipped the tips of the knot. Again I was struck by the lack of lathering up once I brought the brush to my face. More of a painting motion lead to good coverage, but never did it feel like a good protective cushion again razor and blade (particularly since I was using the Blackbird today).

I squeezed some of the lather out from the brush and applied that, but it got sucked back up again the moment I wanted to employ a circular / splaying motion for lathering. Perhaps the density of the brush compared to the foamy nature of Proraso produces this result (based on my technique). I will switch soaps tomorrow and see if this holds true or not. I will use Intesa, because that’s a dense crème rather than a croap.

All in all it was three sufficient passes and the lathering itself was nice as well. The brush felt soft and comfortable with less scritch than yesterday in addition. Drying time between shaves is also very decent. Sure it was still moist at the bottom of the knot and deep within, but definitely more dry than a damp brush (which is totally obvious as damp and dry are two completely different words on the wetness spectrum if there ever was such a spectrum).
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Second day using Proraso and bowl lathering with the Captain’s Choice Copper Bowl. Lathering up was again easy. I paid more attention to the way I hydrated the brush and I only dipped the tips of the knot. Again I was struck by the lack of lathering up once I brought the brush to my face. More of a painting motion lead to good coverage, but never did it feel like a good protective cushion again razor and blade (particularly since I was using the Blackbird today).

I squeezed some of the lather out from the brush and applied that, but it got sucked back up again the moment I wanted to employ a circular / splaying motion for lathering. Perhaps the density of the brush compared to the foamy nature of Proraso produces this result (based on my technique). I will switch soaps tomorrow and see if this holds true or not. I will use Intesa, because that’s a dense crème rather than a croap.

All in all it was three sufficient passes and the lathering itself was nice as well. The brush felt soft and comfortable with less scritch than yesterday in addition. Drying time between shaves is also very decent. Sure it was still moist at the bottom of the knot and deep within, but definitely more dry than a damp brush (which is totally obvious as damp and dry are two completely different words on the wetness spectrum if there ever was such a spectrum).


Maybe not enough soap loaded?

Just guessing. It's been a long time since I used that soap.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Thanks Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers - might be. I am not such a heavy loader so with creams and croaps I tend to use a small spoon (almond size) sizes of soap. But that’s part of the journey!

Thanks for your support!

Guido

I tend to use a lot of soap. Even more so with some soaps which don't need a lot to lather great.

I've never had problems from using too much, but I've had problems due to using too little.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Guido75

Is it swell time?
I've never had problems from using too much, but I've had problems due to using too little.
Point in case - I just completed my head shave using Hampshire Wool Fat. My regular loading for 15 counts gave sufficient lather for one pass, but I needed 10 additional counts for the ATG pass. HWF is a harder soap than Proraso but soft compared to Tabarko or Canada Shaving Soap.

So I will use Proraso Green once more tomorrow, but I will double the amount and see where that takes me.

Cheers,

Guido
 
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