How does honing speed affect a razor?

[cotedupy]

I was wondering, given all other things as equal - pressure &c. - if, how, and why people found the speed of honing strokes affected the outcome...

(And if anyone says anything glib or facetious like 'it makes it faster', I will come round to their house and garotte them with a cheese wire as they sleep).

 

[lightfoot]

It might help if you could reference an example of this type of approach. A video link perhaps.

 

[Wid]

Slow, medium or fast strokes…no difference in outcome as far as I can tell

 

[cotedupy]

It might help if you could reference an example of this type of approach. A video link perhaps.

I kinda just meant - the exact same stoke but done with more speed. And does it make a difference...

 

[cotedupy]

Slow, medium or fast strokes…no difference in outcome as far as I can tell

Interesting. I haven't done any proper methodical tests on this myself, but the reason I asked is that I was thinking about it the other day, and I would have thought that momentum or kinetic energy (both of which are obviously functions of velocity) would have an impact...

Maybe not, and whichever way I'm certainly over-thinking things! But would be fun to know if anyone found a difference.

 

[lightfoot]

I’m not exactly sure how long you’ve been honing but I would say generally I would prioritize your ability to judge your state of completeness at each stage beyond anything. This is easier to do with quality synthetics due to the high mirror polish. Part of this process is being able to determine whether you have honed past the prior grits striations sufficiently. Almost every time I come out with an unsatisfactory edge there’s almost always deeper striations from an earlier grit left unaddressed…

 

[JPO]

During the finishing stages i think the speed of the strokes can make a difference. Some stones get almost magnetic as the bevel plane conforms to the surface. More speed seem to add to the suction effect on some stones. It might not hurt the edge, but i have seen some edges that really did not benefit from it. A little suction can in some cases be beneficial by ensuring even contact with the stone. A faster stroke can therefore be a way to achieve that.
The added momentum from the water/honing medium as it passes over the blade should at leas in theory have an impact on the amount of resistance you get on the stone.
Some of the best results i have had have come from just "playing" with the stones without any particular systematic approach. Those sessions usually involve a little more speed and a firmer pressure. The problem is that i have also had some of my worse edges by doing this. If i get a really nice edge by chance it is more difficult to repeat the process.

 

[Wid]

Pressure more than speed has a greater impact on an edge.

I go medium speed on most stages of honing. If I have a troublesome edge I slow down an apply more pressure. On the very last stage of finishing I go fairly fast. Going slower with the same pressure has no impact as far as I’ve seen.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I don't know if it affects the edge directly, but if you're reading feedback like undercut, speed will definitely change how that looks.

 

[Singing in the brain]

Going fast never done much for me. Why, Im not sure. However, the side effects of rushing is worse than the actual speed. Especially concerning contact between stone and blade and also while flipping over the razor. More risk of f-ing up I believe. One exception for me though, is trans ark. So it's not the speed but the lowered awareness that comes with speed thats problematic more than speed itself.
IMHO.

 

[cotedupy]

I don't know if it affects the edge directly, but if you're reading feedback like undercut, speed will definitely change how that looks.

So if I google 'razor undercut' I just get a load of people with absurd hairdos. What does it mean...?

 

[lightfoot]

So if I google 'razor undercut' I just get a load of people with absurd hairdos. What does it mean...?

Undercut is a phenomenon in which the water easily moves past the edge of the razor at the point of contact with the stone. If you notice a dull razor always seems to push water in front of the edge like a squeegee. Once you really develop an edge a lot of times the water will actually go passed the bevel up into the grind area of the razor. Unfortunately this is a very hard phenomenon to capture on video because of camera resolution.

 

[bluesman 7]

So if I google 'razor undercut' I just get a load of people with absurd hairdos. What does it mean...?

Water from the hone riding up over the edge. Undercut varies a lot with surface tension of the water. A surfactant or a thin slurry breaks the surface tension allowing the edge to undercut more easily.

 

[cotedupy]

Ta. That's what I assumed, good to know the name for it!

 

[Christian1212]

I think any difference would be outweighed by cons of trying to go faster/slower. Whatever speed allows the stroke to stay consistent with even pressure is the best speed.

Side note
I have had times where razor sticking to the hone has led to bad edges. For me the best solution was 1 layer of kapton tape or using 2 hands.

 

[Legion]

I I’m not sure if it makes a difference, but I suppose there is a greater chance of making a bum stroke and messing up the edge if you go quickly.

 

[DrStrange]

I've noticed that as I get closer to the end,
I tend to slow down and be more careful.

 

[duke762]

I've noticed that if I hurry, I start slapping the razor on the stone. Not good. It's my signal to slow the heck down. No speed at the expense of technique.

Now speed of the stroke down the hone is a different animal. Speed of the flip, direction change and presenting the razor to the hone(hone slap?)...all contribute to speed but speed on the stroke can cause problems by decreasing essential, feed back from the hone.

We have a saying at work that has proven true over and over. "Fast work isn't good and good work isn't fast" It applies to lot's of things in life....

 

[buca3152]

Good or bad strokes can be had in any speed. Doing fast bad strokes (2-3x speed) will allow you to do 2-3 times the damage than going slow. Lol.

 

[cotedupy]

It seems then that the empirical/anecdotal evidence here is that speed doesn't make a difference, if all other things are equal.

So can anyone who knows about physics n stuff tell me why? Why does the momentum or kinetic energy of a razor across the surface of a stone not have a noticeable impact on the outcome...?