How do I find the correct angle ATG when shaving with the R41?

[theklaw]

Hello.

I am having a hard time shaving ATG with the R41; had some irritation yesterday.
How do I find the angle, please?

Thanks.

 

[Ahiram]

IMO, you should start with placing the cap on the cheek, and slooowly reduce the angle to the point when you feel the blade cutting.

for the reference, check this video, hope it helps and let us know how it worked later

 

[Alex Jr]

Hello.

I am having a hard time shaving ATG with the R41; had some irritation yesterday.
How do I find the angle, please?

Thanks.

With the R41 it’s less about the angle and more about pressure and speed, combined with a sharp enough blade.

The geometry accepts a wide range of angles, that’s the beauty about the R41. You just have to play with it and find the most comfortable for you.

For me, with the R41, a light pressure and a fast short stroke are more detrimental than the angle.

Too slow and it’ll drag and tug.

Your experience may be different of course.

 

[JPO]

With this particular razor I ride the cap against the grain and ride the safetybar otherwise. I also need to use a consistent speed. This is the last razor I would go fast with.

 

[Cannon Cocker]

A shallow angle works best for me on all directions.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I have been using an R41 for an ATG cleanup pass for the past couple of weeks. It seems to work best on the shallow side of neutral for me. I can't go as shallow angle as I do with some razors, though: too shallow and it can tug; too steep and the teeth drag my skin, and it can get harsh depending on the blade. I'd say start neutral and adjust toward shallow and see how that goes.

 

[gdawg55]

For me, a shallower angle works best with the R41. Seems less tuggy that way.

 

[gigashadow02]

I used to own an R41 and I would say that there is no good angle when shaving ATG. You will have irritation no matter what.

 

[taiga]

I have to agree with everyone else, shallow seems to be the best bet. When I first got my R41 I was using a neutral/steep angle, and I was getting cuts and a lot of irritation. The fourth time I shaved with it I used a shallow angle, and immediately, no cuts and weepers, practically no irritation.

 

[bushisho]

Hi there, someone had posted a video from Geofatboy, his technique is the right one, I do it with the GS and definitely I don't get razorburn afterwards. Try a Voskhod blade in the r41

 

[Jens]

I used to own an R41 and I would say that there is no good angle when shaving ATG. You will have irritation no matter what.

+1 ...!

In my view it is a misperception that an ATG pass should be an integral part of a good shave, certainly if it is in terms of a "full" pass, as opposed to just a touch up pass. Many barbers advise against doing ATG at all, and I myself only rarely do ATG these days, other than just a few spots where I know I can't get BBS otherwise, and where I know it does not usually cause irritation as long as I am gentle and careful (e.g. just below the lower lip).

With the R41 you really shouldn't need a full ATG pass. That particular razor is so efficient, that it seems an overkill.
If you get irritation from going ATG with the R41, is is probably because you shouldn't be going ATG with the R41!!

Instead, try doing an extra XTG .. or try some touch up technique that does not involve ATG.

I have developed a touch up technique that is very efficient, and eliminated any need for ATG for me.
It goes like this:
__ after alum and cold rise (after 2 or 3 regular passes that is), I dry my skin completely, also by fanning / air drying my face.
Then I feel where the remaining stubble is with my left hand (while stretching the skin), and "Gillette slide" XTG and WTG on dry skin with a light hand, razor just wet with cold water, being careful not to overdo it.
I'd recommend that procedure any day over an ATG pass, gives same close finish to the shave, and no irritation.

Good luck with it. Don't tare up your face just to write "ATG" on your CV...!

 

[idjekyll]

+1 ...!

In my view it is a misperception that an ATG pass should be an integral part of a good shave, certainly if it is in terms of a "full" pass, as opposed to just a touch up pass. Many barbers advise against doing ATG at all, and I myself only rarely do ATG these days, other than just a few spots where I know I can't get BBS otherwise, and where I know it does not usually cause irritation as long as I am gentle and careful (e.g. just below the lower lip).

With the R41 you really shouldn't need a full ATG pass. That particular razor is so efficient, that it seems an overkill.
If you get irritation from going ATG with the R41, is is probably because you shouldn't be going ATG with the R41!!

Instead, try doing an extra XTG .. or try some touch up technique that does not involve ATG.

I have developed a touch up technique that is very efficient, and eliminated any need for ATG for me.
It goes like this:
__ after alum and cold rise (after 2 or 3 regular passes that is), I dry my skin completely, also by fanning / air drying my face.
Then I feel where the remaining stubble is with my left hand (while stretching the skin), and "Gillette slide" XTG and WTG on dry skin with a light hand, razor just wet with cold water, being careful not to overdo it.
I'd recommend that procedure any day over an ATG pass, gives same close finish to the shave, and no irritation.

Good luck with it. Don't tare up your face just to write "ATG" on your CV...!

I guess its very YMMV and different skin but I end with ATGs with my R41 and most of the time I get no irritation. I'm using the least aggressive version of the R41 so that may be it.

 

[Dools]

I saw this and forgot to post....I have Always used a steep angle with the R41 no matter where I'm shaving on my face or what pass. I find it to be a wonderful razor for me that I continue to love and appreciate.

I hope you find what works for you.

 

[Vittoria]

Hello.

I am having a hard time shaving ATG with the R41; had some irritation yesterday.
How do I find the angle, please?

Thanks.

R41 fun or not so fun to try
But their is much better razors than this one
unless you have whiskers like a spiny ant eater.

 

[LeroyR]

For me, the magic of the R41 is its ability to squeeze enough efficiency out of the WTG and XTG passes that an ATG pass isn’t really necessary for a DFS+ or BBS- shave.

 

[HDSledge]

I used to own an R41 and I would say that there is no good angle when shaving ATG. You will have irritation no matter what.

I was about to suggest a different razor, but having no experience with the R41, hesitated. Your observation seems logical. I own razors that defy my best efforts to get a comfortable shave. After a bit of working at it, I decided to cut my losses and move on.

 

[Umma2gumma]

With the R41 it’s less about the angle and more about pressure and speed, combined with a sharp enough blade.

The geometry accepts a wide range of angles, that’s the beauty about the R41. You just have to play with it and find the most comfortable for you.

For me, with the R41, a light pressure and a fast short stroke are more detrimental than the angle.

Too slow and it’ll drag and tug.

Your experience may be different of course.

What he said.

Also, as I just learned on the forum myself, there’s not just one but at least four versions of R41:

2011 - the original “Face Eater” that gave this razor its fearsome reputation, and according to some opinions may have been the result of a faulty design.

2013 - a milder yet still aggressive version. I have no experience with it but according to many people it’s not really well suited for a daily shaver.

R41GS stainless steel version - just a little less aggressive than 2013 R41

2019 - a medium aggressive variant. I have it and with the right technique it is a dependable daily driver. The right technique being what &Alex Jr said - light pressure and short strokes.

This thread by @ivan_101 explains how to find out what version you have.

Muhle R41 (ZAMAK head) changed

Some of you know I like to find the small differences in razors. Like you buy a 1968 Tech, and then you buy a 1962 that looks the same and it has a bigger gap. I have been postponing this post, as I needed to receive a package with a 3rd R41 head of the new stock to have rock solid data. Mind...

www.badgerandblade.com

BTW, if you want a razor that is about as efficient as 2019 R41, but a lot more forgiving, look at Maggard V3A. I like it so much, I bought two. And they are half the price of R41.

 

[drydown]

Also, as I just learned on the forum myself, there’s not just one but at least four versions of R41:

2011 - the original “Face Eater” that gave this razor its fearsome reputation, and according to some opinions may have been the result of a faulty design.
....

The 1st R41 dates back to 2009. It is the only true Open Comb R41 and easily identifiable by that.

The „face eater“ is indeed from 2011 but it's the 2nd version of the R41. The reason is not the OC design but the smaller top cap. It is 2 mm less wide and 1 mm less long than the 3rd version allowing the blade to wobble too much.

This article explains and shows them all:

Mühle R41

Der Mühle R41 ist der wohl umstrittenste Rasierhobelkopf, den ich kenne. Kein anderer Kopf eines Rasierers hat ein ähnliches Potential zum Polarisieren. Es gibt Anwender, die haben sich einen R41 g…

nassrasieren-wordpress-com.translate.goog

For your convenience this is the Google-translated version, the original in German is this: Mühle R41 - https://nassrasieren.wordpress.com/der-rasierhobel-eine-einleitung/muhle-r41/

The 7th picture shows the R41 from 2009, the OC with the engraved cap.
The 8th picture shows the top caps of v2 (left) and v3 (right).
The 9th picture shows the v1, v2 and v3.
The 10th and last picture explains the noted measurements the author did of the top caps of v2 and v3.

 

[Captain Coconut]

The 1st R41 dates back to 2009. It is the only true Open Comb R41 and easily identifiable by that.

The „face eater“ is indeed from 2011 but it's the 2nd version of the R41. The reason is not the OC design but the smaller top cap. It is 2 mm less wide and 1 mm less long than the 3rd version allowing the blade to wobble too much.

This article explains and shows them all:

Mühle R41

Der Mühle R41 ist der wohl umstrittenste Rasierhobelkopf, den ich kenne. Kein anderer Kopf eines Rasierers hat ein ähnliches Potential zum Polarisieren. Es gibt Anwender, die haben sich einen R41 g…

nassrasieren-wordpress-com.translate.goog

For your convenience this is the Google-translated version, the original in German is this: Mühle R41 - https://nassrasieren.wordpress.com/der-rasierhobel-eine-einleitung/muhle-r41/

The 7th picture shows the R41 from 2009, the OC with the engraved cap.
The 8th picture shows the top caps of v2 (left) and v3 (right).
The 9th picture shows the v1, v2 and v3.
The 10th and last picture explains the noted measurements the author did of the top caps of v2 and v3.

The 2009 open-comb version is actually the second version of the R41 (head made by Merkur), the pre-2009 R41 had a Fatip head.

 

[Phil Dumont]

Just buy a Fatip open comb, problem solved