Acquisition advice requested. Tatara masamune nodachi daily use?

[Onimaho]

Hi all

I'm fairly new to double sided wetshaving. I started my journey with a Mühle r89 and r41. I don't like the r89 because of two reasons. One my skill level doesn't allow me to hold the proper angle and a lack of blade feel. I actually like some blade feel. The r41 is a razor I very much do like and it is very forgiving in the shaving angle. I unfortunately can't shave with it on daily basis. My skin simply does not allow for a higher frequency as every second day.

After looking around I found the tatara razors. I really like their style and I believe the nodachi might be what I'm looking for. However the aggression of the razor is not consistent over different users. Which isn't that surprising. I therefore created this post in the that someone can say from experience how aggressive the nodachi is placed between the r89 and r41.

I know the a your mileage may vary thing so just shoot your opinion! I'll see what I can use and what I can't.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[gdawg55]

I would agree that the Nodachi is between the R89 and R41 in aggressiveness, but shaves close like the R41. It has some blade feel but way smoother than the R41. I can use the Nodachi daily where as I can’t quite do it with the R41. The Nodachi head on the Masamune handle is one of my favorites.

 

[DesertIguana]

No one can tell you what is going to work best for you, as your Face,Beard are like your Right Thump Print, unique to you. trail and error are your teacher.

You said, "I don't like the r89 because of two reasons. One my skill level doesn't allow me to hold the proper angle and a lack of blade feel. I actually like some blade feel."

Have you tried to over come this by think more, as you shave? This is no different then fix a BAD Habbit in softball, to become better player.

 

[Onimaho]

I would agree that the Nodachi is between the R89 and R41 in aggressiveness, but shaves close like the R41. It has some blade feel but way smoother than the R41. I can use the Nodachi daily where as I can’t quite do it with the R41. The Nodachi head on the Masamune handle is one of my favorites.

Thank you for sharing your experience! You don't like how the handle looks or how it wields?

 

[Onimaho]

No one can tell you what is going to work best for you, as your Face,Beard are like your Right Thump Print, unique to you. trail and error are your teacher.

You said, "I don't like the r89 because of two reasons. One my skill level doesn't allow me to hold the proper angle and a lack of blade feel. I actually like some blade feel."

Have you tried to over come this by think more, as you shave? This is no different then fix a BAD Habbit in softball, to become better player.

I agree that trial and error are a part of finding out what works. However I do believe that you can limit the amount of errors by comparing people with similar preferences and experiences and extrapolating from there. The main goal of the thread is to see if the Nodachi is as aggressive as the Mühle r41. If a number of people can agree that is less aggressive then I can see it as a viable candidate for a trial. If a lot of people sya no it is as aggressive or more so compared to the R41 then I know I don't need to consider it.

As for bad habits, yes I will (and am trying to) increase my consistency. As for my love of blade feel, I don't believe this is something that needs to be fixed. It simply part of my preferences.

Thank you for your opinion. I do hope to improve my shaving skill and am very much enjoying the journey I'm on.

 

[Slapo]

@Onimaho You can try using a shim or two shim between the base plate and the blade in the R89 to increase blade gap and blade exposure, and you can use shims between the top cap and the blade in the R41 to lower blade exposure a little.

This can allow you to feel the blade more in the R89, less of it in R41 and get more practise with both.
Also, don't forget the R89 has a built-in angle guide (check out the shape of the safety bar on it from the narrower side), so if your issue is not getting the correct angle because you can't feel the blade, try feeling for the angle guide

The Masamune Nodachi is between the R89 and R41, but I'd say it's closer to R41.

 

[Iridian]

It's between R89 and R41 and now I wonder how it would compare to the Rocca. Maybe a bit more, I am not sure right now.
The Nodachi is more aggressive than a Game Changer .84.

Don't worry about the Nodachi handle, the finish itself is what makes it grippy, not the golf ball dimples. Some use the Masamune handle due to aesthetic reasons or the belief the Nodachi handle would be slippery as it doesn't have dimples full length.

 

[gdawg55]

Thank you for sharing your experience! You don't like how the handle looks or how it wields?

I just prefer the looks and size of the Mesamune handle compared to the Nodachi handle. I really like the Mesamune handle, how it feels and the overall maneuverability.

 

[JS Ong]

Masamune handle is shorter. Nodachi, longer. Both are fine, just take your pick

 

[Onimaho]

@Onimaho You can try using a shim or two shim between the base plate and the blade in the R89 to increase blade gap and blade exposure, and you can use shims between the top cap and the blade in the R41 to lower blade exposure a little.

This can allow you to feel the blade more in the R89, less of it in R41 and get more practise with both.
Also, don't forget the R89 has a built-in angle guide (check out the shape of the safety bar on it from the narrower side), so if your issue is not getting the correct angle because you can't feel the blade, try feeling for the angle guide

The Masamune Nodachi is between the R89 and R41, but I'd say it's closer to R41.

I wasn't aware shimming was able to lower agression.I'll experiment with it. I also didn't know there was an angle guide. The more you know. I have difficulty recognising it when I look at it but I'm try feeling it out during the next shave. I will also experiment a bit with shimming!

 

[Slapo]

It's between R89 and R41 and now I wonder how it would compare to the Rocca. Maybe a bit more, I am not sure right now.
The Nodachi is more aggressive than a Game Changer .84.

Don't worry about the Nodachi handle, the finish itself is what makes it grippy, not the golf ball dimples. Some use the Masamune handle due to aesthetic reasons or the belief the Nodachi handle would be slippery as it doesn't have dimples full length.

I don't have the safety bar Nodachi plate, only the OC plate, which I forgot to mention.

However, the feel of Rocca and pretty much any Tatara plate I've tried is different, particularly ATG.
I benefit from a more rigid blade there, and while I can make due with the Rocca (especially if I lower the blade exposure a little by getting more blade into the head), the Tatara family has been smoother there.
Blade-feel wise, I think the Rocca and Nodachi SB plate were fairly close, but that's from memory, so likely inaccurate, though I can't tell to what degree.

 

[Iridian]

Well, I can tell one thing for sure, I prefer both Nodachi SB and OC to my Rocca. The Rocca is in a bad spot, it isn't as special as the R41 and it is not bad at all, quite the contrary (I even wrote a posting that they are underappreciated, particularly the 3ONE6, which is very much an early stage Rocca design, both EJ and Mühle cooperate with their head designs)... but I just like Game Changers, Lupos and also the Tataras so much more. That's something I can say for sure, and I hope nobody who dearly loves his R94 feels stepped on his toes.

@Slapo @Onimaho

 

[Slapo]

Well, I can tell one thing for sure, I prefer both Nodachi SB and OC to my Rocca. The Rocca is in a bad spot, it isn't as special as the R41 and it is not bad at all, quite the contrary (I even wrote a posting that they are underappreciated, particularly the 3ONE6, which is very much an early stage Rocca design, both EJ and Mühle cooperate with their head designs)... but I just like Game Changers, Lupos and also the Tataras so much more. That's something I can say for sure, and I hope nobody who dearly loves his R94 feels stepped on his toes.

@Slapo @Onimaho

Same here, I don't like the "clamping point far from the cutting edge" head design style very much (Reggie's Razors Jupiter being something of an exception), but I do find that if a bend is forced upon the blade past clamping area toward the cutting edge, then the blade ends up being much more rigid.
Henson does this, but it also clamps the blade fairly close to the cutting edge.
Merkur 34C-style SB head, EJ DE89/Muhle R89 and Rocca do this as well, but the clamping area is farther from the cutting edge.
I think it's why this design group isn't as smooth ATG as razors that clamp closer to the cutting edge.
I suspect it's also why some of Merkur/DE89 clones don't feel as smooth as the originals. Some of them don't force any bend unto the blade past the clamping point, and some of those I've had (mostly bought for the handles) were quite uncomfortable ATG, regardless of how good my prep was.

 

[Onimaho]

Thank you Iridian & Slapo! Your experience really help! I'm probably going to buy the full nodachi. I will wait for a sale before making the purchase a'd in the mean time I will experiment with shimming.

 

[Cannon Cocker]

To begin with I really like your approach. You seem to have a very good understanding of where you want to go and how to get there.

One thing about shimming. If you put the shim under the cutting blade you will increase your gap by about .1mm for each shim. On the other hand by placing the shim above the cutting blade I don’t believe that changes anything with regard to the razor aggression/efficiency. It would be interesting to hear other thoughts.

I have a number of mid to upper end razors including R41, R41GS, Tatara Nodachi SS and Ti. The Nodachi razors all have Nodachi handles. My R41s are right at the top of aggressive/efficient (Timeless Bronze .78 is a little higher), but lower on smoothness. My Timeless .95 OC Stainless & Ti are right at the top in smoothness, but a little lower on aggressive/efficiency. My Tatars are right at the top in both smoothness and efficiency. They are with out a doubt my best razors

One last thing about the Tatars. Even if you were to buy the Nodachi all caps, plates and handles produced by Tatara are interchangeable. You can customize this razor to suit your needs.

Good luck.

 

[Slapo]

Thank you Iridian & Slapo! Your experience really help! I'm probably going to buy the full nodachi. I will wait for a sale before making the purchase a'd in the mean time I will experiment with shimming.

Happy to help.
Tatara do tend to have a sale around Black Friday.

 

[Guido75]

Rasoigoodfellas sells Tatara heads and plates separately. I believe the threading M5 so you can use other handles if that’s needed.

I don’t have a Tatara - have been eyeing them for quite some time, but never pulled the trigger.

I will say that if you like the R41 and find the R89 too mild, the Rocca might still be a razor to look for. It is under appreciated or skipped in favour of so-called higher end razors, but I think it is one of the best bringing R89 smoothness with R41 effectiveness. If I could turn the clock back to my beginning, I would advise myself to get the Rocca and enjoy my daily shave.

Of course it’s all YMMV. Some get by with 2 passes, others like me don’t. Same with razors.

Enjoy your journey!

 

[JPO]

In my opinion the Nodachi is just as efficient as the R41, it's just a little more refined.
For daily shaves I would get the Masamune top cap combined with the Nodachi base plate.
The Nodachi base plate combined with the Masamune top cap is also a good combination.
Both of these will give more then enough blade feel.

 

[Brutus]

The Nodachi is closer to the R41 than to the Rocca, which itself sits about halfway between the R89 and R41.

I find the Nodachi a comfortable razor, no matter whether with safety bar or open comb head.
Both versions shave almost identical, which is no wonder as blade exposure and blade gap is identical for both.
The principal difference between the two is the way the lather is routed and removed. The version with the safety bar may be a tiny amount more comfortable, possibly because any weight is distributed along the entire bar rather than a series of combs, but the difference is minute.
Initially, I used the bar but after about a year and a half I have now switched to the OC head.

I own the stainless and titanium versions and found that I like the titanium version better because of its lower weight and easier maneuverability. The titanium version makes feather light passes easy and the results are impressive.

To get the best out of a Nodachi, I suggest the lightest possible pressure (up to the point that you wonder whether it will remove any stubble) and then try even less on the next shave.
This really applies to all razors, but you might be surprised how well a shave with a minimum of pressure works.

The Nodachi is my favourite DE razor and I can wholeheartedly recommend it for daily shaves, but I should add that I had no problems using an R41 on a daily basis either.

My various R41 and Rocca razors are meanwhile collecting dust.
Shaving with the R41GS a few weeks ago, I noticed how crude the R41GS felt, but that is not uncommon after using a titanium razor for a while.


B.

 

[Onimaho]

One last thing about the Tatars. Even if you were to buy the Nodachi all caps, plates and handles produced by Tatara are interchangeable. You can customize this razor to suit your needs

Yes this interchangeability is one of the advantages in my opinion. If at a later point of time want something a bit milder I can buy a cap or plate and get a milder shave.

To get the best out of a Nodachi, I suggest the lightest possible pressure (up to the point that you wonder whether it will remove any stubble) and then try even less on the next shave.
This really applies to all razors, but you might be surprised how well a shave with a minimum of pressure works.

The Nodachi is my favourite DE razor and I can wholeheartedly recommend it for daily shaves, but I should add that I had no problems using an R41 on a daily basis either.

Yes! I have renamed pressure to touch in my mind. It really is sufficient for the razor to touch the skin.
In the meantime I have one again tried to use the R41 two days in a row and this time my skin was just fine. I'm still rather new to the hobby so my skill is still very much in flux.

Thank you all for your kind advice and help! I really appreciate it and am happy I got started here at blade and badger!