Horn or Ebony: Which is Easier to Work With?

[duke762]

Having no experience with horn and limited experience with Ebony. Is horn any easier to work with? I've made 1 set of Ebony scales...well 3 actually and found it to be incredibly fragile, brittle and rigid. I took me 3 tries to get a set all the way through peening. A drag, but worth it and a learning experience.

So is horn as rigid and fragile as Ebony?

 

[LJS]

Horn is a thermoplastic and can be heated and shaped to many forms. Old dry horn can be brittle yes, but most is pretty easy to work with. There are multiple "ebony" woods as well and not all are the same to work with, but it isn't generally described as fragile. Good luck

 

[Sando]

So is horn as rigid and fragile as Ebony?
Not in my admittedly limited experience. I’ve found horn to be easily shaped, takes a nice shine or matte surface, and doesn’t crack while pinning. It’ll smell bad when heated/sanded but no big deal. Old peeling horn scales can be rejuvenated with an oil soak and scrub with 600 grit.

 

[Frito Ray]

Depends if horn is still on the bull.

 

[Mr Bedlington]

I think the simple answer to your question is? Horn has been a choice material of manufacturers from the earliest right up to modern times, Wood in my honest opinion isn't a good choice, I have made many scales from both wood and horn, and horn is a much more versatile material to use.

 

[ArtVandelay123]

I've worked exclusively with ebony for my razor scales and find it an outstanding wood, imo the very best wood to make scales out of. Not brittle or fragile at all in my experience, au contraire.

Ebony has a high oil content and is indeed exceptionally dense, strong and stiff.
So something must be up.

For me personally the issue was the use of washers.
I tried washers on my first set of scales, but quickly removed them.

Due to the natural oil content in ebony and the compression of the wood you really don't need washers; when I did use washers the blade and scales wouldn't tighten down how it should and everything remained floppy, no matter how hard you peened them.
(They will tighten down once the washers are completely driven into the wood, but that has little use and puts way too much unnecessary stress and tension on the pivot area; still my scales never cracked.)

Once I got rid of the washers the razor and scales peened and tightened up like a charm.

On many of my old razors with wooden scales, none contained washers when I took them apart.
Ergo I never use any washers with my ebony scales.

TL;DR
Don't use washers and they'll peen up fine

 

[cotedupy]

Having no experience with horn and limited experience with Ebony. Is horn any easier to work with? I've made 1 set of Ebony scales...well 3 actually and found it to be incredibly fragile, brittle and rigid. I took me 3 tries to get a set all the way through peening. A drag, but worth it and a learning experience.

So is horn as rigid and fragile as Ebony?

Horn is certainly easier to work (imo). I like the end results of both a lot, but horn is a really lovely and quite simple material to work with, while ebony takes a bit more of a knack.

(NB - I certainly I don't have as much experience with ebony razor scales as @ArtVandelay123 above. I use both horn and ebony mostly for knife handles).

 

[Gamma]

Some types of what is called Ebony will fracture if you look at it the wrong way.
Good ebony is really nice stuff...if you cut and shape with the right tools it's lovely.
Horn, well - it also has a broad quality range. Some of it gets wonky as heck... you cut it and then it never stops moving.
Like good ebony, good horn is nice stuff though.
I haven't made ebony scales, I've used it for other things I do sometimes though. I don't usually make wood scales but I have and they're great. Horn has a different visual aesthetic.
So, horn isn't super rigid or particularly fragile.
Not all ebony is super fragile - it does have stiffness..a lot depends on the actual species, the quality of the example, and the cut.
I've had ebony fretboards you could use as a weapon, and ebony veneer that was sorta very delicate in comparison.

 

[DesertIguana]

No right answer Horn is not boring, many type of horn material.


Ebony comes in many colors & types so it could also be intresting.🫠

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Not all ebony is super fragile - it does have stiffness..a lot depends on the actual species, the quality of the example, and the cut.

I think how well the raw wood is seasoned plays a role too.

 

[Gamma]

Yes, how it was seasoned and how the current owner stores it also matters.
There are a lotta people that have splits in the spruce tops of their guitars because they don't monitor the humidity.

 

[ArtVandelay123]

Agreed.

I do buy "1st quality" Ebony, that's the best that is available and it's quarter sawn.
I also use hand tools exclusively, but found the ebony I got extremely strong.
The ebony offered by the store is certified to originate from populations in countries of origin that are not subject to species protection regulations. Density 1150 kg/m³. I do hand pick the boards I wanna use and send the rest back.
That's all I got. It's absolutely beautiful with exceptional characteristics, but I find all woods beautiful.

 

[duke762]

The Ebony I have is Gabon Ebony and and looks like plastic or horn after finishing....black like my heart. I made my first 2 sets pretty thin and they split length wise, just while sanding and working into shape. A thicker design worked well with careful handling. They are a bit small for the razor. It now llooks like a Rubinsque woman in a pair of scandalous, black undies to me....not a bad vibe I guess...

 

[ArtVandelay123]

I've modelled mine after a vintage pair of wooden scales on an Eskilstuna made razor.
They're about 2,7mm thick at the peening hole and center of the scales, sometimes a bit thinner. And they taper pretty thin towards the outer parts of the scales, I really like it that way, it keeps my peening holes/area strong and I never had one crack on me, and it also keep my scales small and nimble overall. That's just my personal preference. I mostly use a spokeshave and a DE blade, a file and a rasp for the shaping.

Ebony polishes up nicely indeed, I often times use a traditional french polish on many projects, but decided for my ebony razor scales to use Tung oil.
And afterwards instead of using pumice powder and shellac to fill the pores, I use Coticule dust/powder to polish the razor scales. It removes the raised grain caused by the tung oil and it fills in the pores. It's highly symbolic but actually gave a great result on mine.

I'm not really that much into sandpaper and never use it. I mostly use a sharp plane blade and a very fine shaving from my old inherited Ulmia reform putzhobel with lignum vitae sole.
Except for when I'm french polishing, then I use fine pumice powder.

I was also wary of using steel wool for polishing my razor scales as I had read some small pieces could break off, fill the pores and corrode, etc.
I'm a bit over cautious probably though

Oh yeah, btw, I do take my collars and hammer them pretty flat before I use them for peening, so they have less a tendency to dig 'deep' into the wood and split it. I think I saw this done in a Dovo or some other Solingen manufacturer's video, I liked that idea and copied it, works very well.

 

[Gamma]

I've had Gaboon splinter from a stiff breeze... I don't know that I'd choose it for making scales. Some bass makers have had issues with Gaboon boards splitting after a couple years....something to do with curing issues.

Maybe Macassar or Blackwood.

 

[duke762]

I've had Gaboon splinter from a stiff breeze..

Well.....that explains a few things. Horn from now on. I put the Ebony scales on a W/B restore that is more of a RSO than anything. It will never be used but is a pleasure to behold and fondle.