Honing Stroke Question

[Acmemfg]

I have developed over the years a honing protocol which works pretty well, at least for me. But I find myself asking...
X-strokes, circular motion strokes, half strokes, during a routine honing session I will use them all. Somewhere around 50-75 repetitions of each. I’ll start with half strokes, move to circular, finish with x-strokes. Results are decent.
Question...in all reality are these different stroke motions pretty much the same thing or is one any better/more efficient than another?
I use a variety of stones...coticule (favorite), Coe Whetstones, Zulu Grey, Naniwa SS, Arkansas...no jnats. Not ready to go down that hole yet.
Same routine regardless of the stone other than using more strokes perhaps when using the Arkansas rocks or in the case of a really dull blade. Not necessarily looking to reinvent the wheel, but I am curious what if any difference there may be.

 

[buca3152]

Imo it doesn't matter what you use to get the edge. Some people say circles late in a progression can damage an edge. You are probably.better served judging the difference on your own bench based on your own results.

 

[stone and strop]

I believe it has been written by Leonard Lee that the MOST durable edge is one where the striations meet the edge at a 90 degree angle.
It must be a very small difference but I can understand his intent.
Having said that, myself, I believe that x strokes only are the best for me (half strokes to hog material and save time).
I have never used circles and never will.
The random messy striations cannot possibly contribute to a better edge. If may not be detrimental by much, if any, but I know it will not help, certainly not near the end anyway.
This of course is my opinion.

 

[dundak]

YMMV. I use x-strokes from familiarity and I tend to use narrow and small stones.


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[Ufgoodies]

I heard that circles with slurry allow more slurry to reach the entire bevel, allowing for a more uniform bevel. Not just finished at the cutting edge. I have sharpened few razors since i heard that and have not been able to tell. I imagine it would be an early works, and not something that would be done while finishing. nobody wants a scratch parallel to the edge once finished

 

[buca3152]

Most strokes are polishing strokes. What I do that works for me is half strokes. Lots of them. I do edge refining strokes at the end of each grit. You can probably depending on how many you do, do 10 polishing strokes for every one edge refinement stroke. I don't think circles are bad strokes. I don't do them though. But many use them without issue. The recipe is your own. Try it all and see where you end up.

 

[Gamma]

I use circles or 1/2 strokes when I need to speed up steel removal, but not a fan of them for anything other than speed. I prefer an even/consistent angled striation pattern because it makes casual or high-magnification observation eaiser, and I have found that they enhance refinement-level possibilities. After heavy work is done, x strokes. Sometimes rolling. Sometimes heel-leading, infrequently, toe-leading. Occasionally heel-toe, other times toe-heel.

 

[kelbro]

For routine honing of my rotation, I've never needed anything but X-strokes.

Restores and damage repair require different tactics.

 

[global_dev]

I mainly do x-strokes, I have nothing but time..but like most, it'll depend on what i am trying to accopmlish.

but i don't know if you guys recall the ellipticot that is mostly circles on the coticules
Ellipticot method

 

[Slash McCoy]

Edge repair, raising a burr, I use sets of circles. More like very long ovals, actually. Honing the burr off, I might use a couple of diminishing sets of circles at lighter pressure, and then regular X strokes to the finish. Agree with Gamma... X strokes precisely delivered at a slightly different heel angle for each grit allows quick and easy visual determination under optics that the previous stage scratches are gone. Or not. This visual method is very useful, when "just hone it" doesn't deliver a perfect edge the first time. You can analyze each stage as you go, and you can be sure that each stage has been taken to its conclusion before moving up to the next grit. Then for the diamond on balsa post finish progression, I also use X strokes, but edge trailing, as when stropping on leather.

 

[kohalajohn]

When people say "half strokes" do they mean keeping the same side downard? Pushing the edge forward, then pulling back lightly without flipping it, and then adding pressure and pushing it forward again?

I only do that when setting a bevel as I am raising a burr on one side.

 

[stone and strop]

When people say "half strokes" do they mean keeping the same side downard? Pushing the edge forward, then pulling back lightly without flipping it, and then adding pressure and pushing it forward again?

I only do that when setting a bevel as I am raising a burr on one side.

Correct.

 

[kohalajohn]

Got it.

Next time I set a bevel, I'm going to use long ovals. If it's going to be one side down, it seems a more efficient way to remove metal.

 

[Alum of Potash]

The mentioning of Leonard Lee brought back memories. Founder of Lee Valley and an author of a general reference book on sharpening.

Lately, I've tended to move from half-strokes at the start on a fine DMT for razors with visible chips to half-strokes with a 1k synth. Here, I'm not looking for a burr so much as to follow a descending lap count for each side, 10-5-3-2-1 or 5-2-1 depending on my mood and the condition of the eBay beater in question. Videos by Alex Gilmore and Dr. Matt led me to doing this. Edge for me is determined from the thumbnail test, which I would qualify as grabbing ferociously off the fine DMT and grabbing more domestically off the 1k. With the 3k synth, I start with a handful of half-laps to knock off any stray burr or correct edge deformation, then move to X-strokes for the duration of the session. The scratch pattern now running on the diagonal, it is very easy to determine when to move up once the up-and-down scratches have been effaced (also helpful for identifying any deeper lingering scratches from the fine DMT). Ditto pretty much for a coticule used with water, a handful of half-laps followed by X-strokes for the duration. For the final stage, purple Welsh slate, I switch to a few, short, laterally-biassed X-stroke passes ending with a few more extended X-strokes.

Circular strokes seem to me to be a blend of everything. I can see the benefit of their use in starting out with finer natural stones like harder coticules before moving to X-strokes, if only to knock off any stray burr or correct edge deformation, but I can't see the benefit of their use with, say, softer and coarser synthetic stones.

As an addendum, this does not account for warped razors, which abound. There, I am lately inclined to use up-and-down half-lap strokes with narrow stones in starting out, which can introduce problems in overlapping sections, moving to rolling X-strokes for the rest of the process, which helps to even out the over-lapping sections, narrow stones there too being my preference (although in theory, width shouldn't matter all that much with rolling X-strokes, the narrow hone's form perhaps being psychological as it forces a rolling X-stroke by default).