As you may or may not have noticed lately, I have been making many attempts at honing. I now have a king 1k, a small and large coticule, and a BBW. I would like to use the other stones, but I can't get past setting this darn bevel. I have the razors easily shaving arm hair, passing the TPT, but I can't get them to pass an HHT. What's the deal here? It seemed like everything is so straight forward. Lay the razor flat, push. Flip, repeat. I was told that after doing the heavy work, to get that real sharp edge you need to do light strokes. No pressure. I've tried this and done countless x strokes or half strokes. I'm getting undercut across the edge and suction. I just can't get the edge sharp enough to pass this HHT. Is that needed, even though all other signs say yes? I feel like I'm missing something so simple, yet so frustrated that I'm not able to get something so simple accomplished. Any advice, thorough explanations, links to videos that helped you...etc would be greatly appreciated.
Honing. anger.
- Thread starter blackhhawk
- Start date
I'm with you buddy. After some lousy shaves using a couple of different couticule techniques, I figured it must be the bevel set so I ordered a King 1K. Spent over an hour last night with the 1K looking for a bevel that would tree-top arm hair and pass the TPT and TNT. I was able to get some sticking on the TNT, I need to learn what a good TPT feels like (I'll grab one of my 'good' razors and check that later), but I couldn't tree top arm hair, much less pass any sort of HHT. After all the time I spent on the King, I went through a Dulicot progression to see what the shave would feel like. The razor removed hair, but not very comfortably, and I had to shift to another blade mid-shave.
I must be doing something wrong with the bevel set--I can't see why it's taking me so long on the stone without the results I'm told I should be seeing. I'll just have to plug away with it (and watch this thread & others).
I must be doing something wrong with the bevel set--I can't see why it's taking me so long on the stone without the results I'm told I should be seeing. I'll just have to plug away with it (and watch this thread & others).
Are these razors shaving you well? If they are then don't worry too much abou the HHT but keep working on it, you need to have the right technique doing the test and it helps to have "good" hair.
Also you wont get an HHT until you strop it coming off a coticule and linen helps coticule edges IMO.
What layer of coticule have you got? I have used loads of coticules and had great success , but I tried 4/5 newer la grise and I have to say I got so frustrated with them as I just could not hit the keenness level, no matter what I did .... Is it possible that the coticule you have is a no go stone or just more practise ...You can set the bevel it doesn't have to tree top hair on 1k level then you go to the coticule with slurry which should remove 1k scratches then slowly dilute and finish with water the key thing is a good natural linen and good leather .... there will be post saying all coticules will work its down to practise , trial and error ...ask any coticulist if they have had bang on edges with every coticule they brought and tried? they'd be faking if they said yes, I have found a thew to be so easy its unbalieveable and quite thew more that are just the opposite....I can say the coticules I have struggled with in the latter years , I've returned to and got amazing edges...With the la grise I have yet to experience that but I have read that some love the la grise .... If its any help I remember when I used my first coticule and I was in the same boat as you...I also remember having to strop on ti rasoir pate on cotton strop to get shave ready ( you can do this while learning to use your coticule) I also remember when I achieved my best coticule edge on my ti silver wing, the only way I could describe the shave was magic, that's when I was addicted to honing on a coticule ...stay with with you will be rewarded when you least expect it... I use the HHT and I swear by it and yes you will see a marked difference after linen/leather ... can you get a HHt 3 of the stone with a thicker to medium hair ? yes you can I have seen HHt 3/4 of my la vainettes and other layers ...then after stropping you will get a realy sweet shave , Getting a HHt of the stone isn't easy you have to spend time on finishing....
gary
gary
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HHt is post strop..not post hone.
For me I mastered it as follows:
set bevel on carpenters stone
turned stone over and honed to arm shaving on smoother side.
went to 10k stone and honed with slurry
honed on 10k with just water
stropped on pasted leather strop (using autosol polishing paste)
stropped on strop
but as has been said...hair differs a hell of a lot in the hht! I can get my razors to hht on my cats hair, and on most of my better halfs hair, but occasionally her hair simply won't hht at all no matter how hard I try! It's just too well conditioned and soft I guess.
If things are shaving well don't get hunt up on the hht. Yes it's awesome when it works but its not the be all and end all!
For me I mastered it as follows:
set bevel on carpenters stone
turned stone over and honed to arm shaving on smoother side.
went to 10k stone and honed with slurry
honed on 10k with just water
stropped on pasted leather strop (using autosol polishing paste)
stropped on strop
but as has been said...hair differs a hell of a lot in the hht! I can get my razors to hht on my cats hair, and on most of my better halfs hair, but occasionally her hair simply won't hht at all no matter how hard I try! It's just too well conditioned and soft I guess.
If things are shaving well don't get hunt up on the hht. Yes it's awesome when it works but its not the be all and end all!
Coticules by nature are frustrating beasts. After you've finished diluting your slurry to water, do 30 x strokes, strop and check hht. If you don't get the HHT you're looking for go back to the coticule for another 30 x strokes, quick strop and check. Repeat over and over. You'll get there and you'll also learn how fast/slow your coticule is at finishing.
This is where honing with no tape makes life SO much easier.
This is where honing with no tape makes life SO much easier.
Don't get too hung up on the HHT. If you're tree topping arm/leg hair easily across the edge, call the bevel set and move on through progression.
I don't mean to sound dumb, but you have to hold the hair the right as well or the blade won't catch the grain of the hair. I will agree with Gary, I very much dislike the new La Grise. I have owned quite a few coticules and all have been pretty straight forward, but the La Grise's never gave me an edge I liked and will never purchase one again. I would love to buy that sight unseen deal through TSS but would need a guarantee that I was getting a dressante, but that would defeat the purpose.
oops. I'm one of the ignorant ones who suggested to Marc that "all coticules will work". I stand corrected. All I really know is that both of mine do.
This is the first I'd heard of someone experiencing a coti that just won't hone to a satisfactory keenness.
- Thread starter
- #11
I've done an HHT plenty of times with success on different razors, so I know my technique with the test isn't the issue. I'm not able to tree top any hairs, just shave hair off my leg or arm. I bought the stone sight unseen from TSS so I can post a picture and maybe someone would know what layer it's from. I was under the impression that an HHT should be done off the king 1k and it should be done easily without stropping once the bevel is set.
Rockviper, thanks. I'll take a look at that.
Rockviper, thanks. I'll take a look at that.
- Thread starter
- #12
- Thread starter
- #13
Well both of mine won't, which makes me think its my technique. Also because I can't get a sharp enough edge off my king either.
Just curious, are you able to actually see the edge up really close? Being able to see it up close is invaluable to see what you're doing wrong( and right).
- Thread starter
- #15
Yes I have a 10x loupe. Haven't shaved with the blades, didnt want to try that until I knew it was ready
Don't mess with HHT right off 1K. Just make sure it will shave arm/leg hair at skin level then go to the coticule.
If your bevel passes the TNT well, and it's cutting arm hair easily, it's probably good or at least very close.
La Grise stones are known to auto-slurry sometimes - if yours does -it means you'll have to adjust the laps and dilutions, and you may need to finish under running water. I've had a few LGs that were of the soft auto-slurrying type, but I got fine shaving edges from them with increased but shorter stroke sets; faster dilutions with more water than usual. I started with thinner slurry most of the time also. Finishing under water was almost a requirement. Another thing was to get 1/2 way through a progression of dilutions, rinse and start over with a lighter slurry. Maybe 3-4 times then finish. If you can manage it, going uphill under running water will eliminate the negative effects of auto slurrying. A light touch is mandatory at that point and it will take some practice. Let the water gently wash over the stone to decrease the reverse force against the blade. You want a rinse, not a tidal wave.
I don't use the HHT, so I can't comment on that but I am certain that's only for after the finish.
The undercut and feedback will tell you when you are progressing or going backwards - when you sense a shift to your advantage, pay close attention, it will only be a short while before the edge starts to go the other way. You want to pre-guess that moment and move forward with a rinse or dilution at that point.
La Grise stones are known to auto-slurry sometimes - if yours does -it means you'll have to adjust the laps and dilutions, and you may need to finish under running water. I've had a few LGs that were of the soft auto-slurrying type, but I got fine shaving edges from them with increased but shorter stroke sets; faster dilutions with more water than usual. I started with thinner slurry most of the time also. Finishing under water was almost a requirement. Another thing was to get 1/2 way through a progression of dilutions, rinse and start over with a lighter slurry. Maybe 3-4 times then finish. If you can manage it, going uphill under running water will eliminate the negative effects of auto slurrying. A light touch is mandatory at that point and it will take some practice. Let the water gently wash over the stone to decrease the reverse force against the blade. You want a rinse, not a tidal wave.
I don't use the HHT, so I can't comment on that but I am certain that's only for after the finish.
The undercut and feedback will tell you when you are progressing or going backwards - when you sense a shift to your advantage, pay close attention, it will only be a short while before the edge starts to go the other way. You want to pre-guess that moment and move forward with a rinse or dilution at that point.
Yes Sir
- Thread starter
- #19
This one definitely doesn't auto slurry. It seems to be a harder/slower stone, though I don't have much experience so I don't know how creditable my guess on it is. I had others tell me that I should be treetopping hair or passing an HHT right off the 1k stone, no stropping (or just a quick few strokes to get any grit off the edge) and it should pass. What about finishing? Should I be passing an HHT then, before stropping? As in when I'm done with my strokes on just water?
No HHT off the 1K, I don't know where that would have come from. HHT is for finishing only imo. Coming off a coticule you should get decent results doing HHT but it should improve dramatically off the strop. A natural linen does wonders when using a coti.
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