Hole in the Bevel

[ffourteen]

I recently picked up a nice razor that turned out to have a tiny hole in the bevel (looks like a small pit that was cleaned up but ran a little too deep, then opened up in honing). I’m thinking about trying to fix it, but not sure of the best approach. The rest of the blade seems ok, once the hole is out it shouldn’t have other issues.

I have a JNAT finishing progression, but nothing with lower grits, and don’t really want to invest in more hones just to fix one razor. Would lapping film work, or is it better not to put that on top of a jnat? Any suggestions?

 

[global_dev]

lapping film will work, and it will give you a film edge. you will have to go back to jnat if you want jnat edge.

 

[NPV]

If you already have a JNAT I’d suggest just getting a King 1k for bevel setting. Yes they are slow, they have to be flattened often, and there is better out there. But they are cheap and IME a much better bevel setter than film.

 

[Alum of Potash]

A JIS synth before Jnats does seem to make sense. Also depends on where the Jnats start out and where the hole is in the bevel.

 

[ffourteen]

A JIS synth before Jnats does seem to make sense. Also depends on where the Jnats start out and where the hole is in the bevel.

Where the Jnats start out… you mean gritwise? My progression starts with tenjyo (don’t have a botan).

Also not quite sure how to describe where the hole is, and don’t understand what impact its location would have. It is just barely behind the edge, about a cm from the toe. Goes clear through, the edge is basically a super thin wire across its side. It isn’t as big as the bevel is (i.e. it has the edge on one side and bevel on the other).

 

[Clay S]

nd don’t understand what impact its location would have

I assume how much metal has to be removed. While any equivalent grit size can be used, the more metal to remove, the more attractive a lower equivalent grit size becomes.

Or, if in a place that can be avoided, just live with it until honing takes care of it.

 

[Alum of Potash]

View attachment 956168

Where the Jnats start out… you mean gritwise? My progression starts with tenjyo (don’t have a botan).

Also not quite sure how to describe where the hole is, and don’t understand what impact its location would have. It is just barely behind the edge, about a cm from the toe. Goes clear through, the edge is basically a super thin wire across its side. It isn’t as big as the bevel is (i.e. it has the edge on one side and bevel on the other).

The picture is clear enough. That looks like it should hone out pretty simply. I don't know how jnats approximately rank gritwise, but a 1k synth, as mentioned, should do the trick. If it was higher up on the bevel, I would be inclined to use a more aggressive hone to speed things up. A 1k/3k synth combo does the trick for me, and a Naniwa traditional 1k or 1.5k is a step up from a King IMO, without paying too much more.

 

[NPV]

The picture is clear enough. That looks like it should hone out pretty simply. I don't know how jnats approximately rank gritwise, but a 1k synth, as mentioned, should do the trick. If it was higher up on the bevel, I would be inclined to use a more aggressive hone to speed things up. A 1k/3k synth combo does the trick for me, and a Naniwa traditional 1k or 1.5k is a step up from a King IMO, without paying too much more.

True, I always seem to forget about the traditional line. I think they are worth the extra investment.

 

[Jnatcat]

That should only take a few passes on a 1k

 

[ffourteen]

That should only take a few passes on a 1k

Wow, a 1k removes that much metal? I’m looking into Naniwa Traditionals now… can those be lapped on 220 w/d? And if so does it need anything finer after?

 

[NPV]

Wow, a 1k removes that much metal? I’m looking into Naniwa Traditionals now… can those be lapped on 220 w/d? And if so does it need anything finer after?

400 w/d should work well

 

[Gamma]

I'd guess that hole will require more than a 'few' passes on a 1k. But anything in the 1k zone will do it. You can flatten the Traditional stone on 220x w/d. It's a fairly friable stone but finer paper still might wind up slowing it down, which would be pointless. 1k to Tenjyou is ambitious, certainly not ideal, but not totally out of the question.

 

[ffourteen]

I'd guess that hole will require more than a 'few' passes on a 1k. But anything in the 1k zone will do it. You can flatten the Traditional stone on 220x w/d. It's a fairly friable stone but finer paper still might wind up slowing it down, which would be pointless. 1k to Tenjyou is ambitious, certainly not ideal, but not totally out of the question.

Ok, thanks. So I should spend extra time on the tenjyo then? Maybe a few rounds of slurry? For finishing I’m comfortable gauging when to move up from tenjyo but from a 1k I’m not sure I’d be able to make that call.

Also, on the 1k, would you recommend Xs and circles or just Xs?

 

[Gamma]

I don't think it matters which stroke you use, be mindful of pressure on the spine and it's not out of the question to take the distraction out with tape on the spine and then you can reset the bevel without tape easily after. How much work you need to do on tenjyou will depend on things I don't know. Best thing to do is to hone as much as you can, then hone some more. You should be able to manage a shave off the 1k and the shave off Tenjyou should be notably better. Most likely, you will need to refresh the slurry a couple/few times. Just roll with it and when it 'feels' right move forward.

 

[ffourteen]

I don't think it matters which stroke you use, be mindful of pressure on the spine and it's not out of the question to take the distraction out with tape on the spine and then you can reset the bevel without tape easily after. How much work you need to do on tenjyou will depend on things I don't know. Best thing to do is to hone as much as you can, then hone some more. You should be able to manage a shave off the 1k and the shave off Tenjyou should be notably better. Most likely, you will need to refresh the slurry a couple/few times. Just roll with it and when it 'feels' right move forward.

Great, thanks!

 

[Doc226]

Don't overthink it.

@alx gilmore changed the way I hone.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I would take it to 400 grit WD paper on heavy glass or polished flat stone tile, then as the hole becomes a nick at the edge and begins to disappear, move up to 1k and 2k paper. Your bevel will be set. Make a nice heavy slurry and work it down while reducing pressure, then run through your favorite nagura progression and you have your Jnat edge and the hole is gone. The bevel is a little wider on the spine, but so what. Your overall geometry should be nearly unaffected.

Lapping film will do it but you need to start with maybe 30u or so, on heavy glass or polished stone tile or acrylic, not laying it on top of a Jnat hone lol.

Bunch of ways to do it. But if you want to do it fast, break out the big guns, i.e. coarse grits, and don't start moving up until the damage is nearly fixed. It should be completely gone by the time you move above 1k grit. Don't stay on the coarse stuff too long though. All those deep scratches have to be removed along with the steel they are in. Let this be the same steel that has to be removed to get rid of the defect.

 

[paintflinger]

Pick up a bevel setter. You can at the very least use it for your kitchen knives.

My favorite for price is the Shapton Kuromaku 1.5K. Almost as cheap as the king.

 

[ffourteen]

So an update on this. I wound up getting a Matukusuyama 1k. More than I had planned to spend, but I got a really good deal on it. It took the bevel back beyond the hole pretty quick.

Moving from that to the tenjyou was rough. I’m working without any magnification, so I ended up taking it up through the full progression about four times, each time with better performance but definitely not “ready.”

It’s finally at about 97%. It shaves smooth, close, and comfortable, just not perfect. I’m going to spend more time with just water on the finisher and hope that does it.

I’m thinking it was part the jump from 1k to tenjyou, but also gauging by how slow it moved up through the jnat slurry progression once I got it in a recognizable range, part that the steel is a lot harder than others I’ve worked with. Hope that means once I get the edge, it stays longer…