hitting the point of desperation.Also, thoughts on TI's, Nortons, Illinois strops

[dfresh]

Welp, fellas...here's the deal. Bought a TI from AOS about 6 months ago. Of course out of shear excitement I thought I'd go home and try to shave with it "as is". Need I say more...?

So, I bought a Norton 4000/8000. Probably but close to 800 passes on it between the 2 sides...easily 800. Maybe 1000. It's much better...but still shaves like TOTAL crap. Less of a shave...more of a "tugging out". Also, purchased an Illinois #835 which if I didn't know better was a total waste of $40.

1st- I'd love to hear your opinions on both the Norton 4000/8000 and Illinois strops.

2nd- I need this thing legitimately sharpened right. I live in Kansas City, MO...any recommendations on where to go?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Doc226]

You can get a descent edge from a Norton 4k/8k stone but it does take some practice. I have never used or seen an #835 so I can't comment.

I would guess by now you have messed up the bevel on the razor and it will have to be taken down a little further than the 4K stone.

I can hone it for you for the price of shipping if you don't mind a little wait for it.

PM me if interested.

 

[Wid]

Doc puts a real nice edge on a razor, I'd take him up on his offer.

 

[dfresh]

Already did

Doc puts a real nice edge on a razor, I'd take him up on his offer.

 

[Gamma]

You can set a bevel on a Norton 4k, but it'll take some patience.
A 1k would be faster, but faster isnt always better.

I've never been able to shave well on an 8k edge, so no surprise there.
Not surprised that an AOS razor wasn't shave ready either to be honest.

I think Illinois strops are a decent enough option, especially to start with.

 

[Danricgro]

#1 to everything that has been said. There is nothing at all wrong with Illinois Strops.

 

[tomjr]

T Illinois strop are ok.

 

[mainaman]

I trust you lapped your Norton?

 

[Slash McCoy]

You probably didn't get the bevel set with the 4k. This usually requires a 1k and sometimes something even coarser, if you are to keep the lap count down to less than 4 figures. And if the bevel isn't set properly with your bevel setter, it will NEVER get set by your finer stones. Forget about that. Unless you are positively positive that you completely did all you can possibly do with the last stage and grit, you must not must not MUST NOT progress to a finer one. Doing so will doom your edge to uselessness, or at least mediocrity.

In skilled hands, an 8k edge will shave pretty good. But it must be done right. First of all, you mustn't even begin with the 8k until it is absolutely proven that the 4k did all it can do. You mustn't have even started on the 4k unless you demonstrated to yourself that the 1k left a perfect bevel along the entire edge. Serious. If you don't know if you are done with a stone, then you are not done with that one. It's that simple. Second, especially with your final stage or two stages of honing, pressure must be extremely light and balanced. Heavy or even moderate pressure will deform the fragile edge. It will bend the edge to one side so that after the stroke, when the blade is flipped and the edge steel springs back, your microscopically flat bevel isn't flat anymore. Also anything but the lightest pressure, after lots of laps, can leave a fin edge. Third, to make an 8k hone like a 10k or finer stone, use lather. This is an old barber's trick and it is how barbers managed to get good shaving edges off a relatively coarse and woefully small barbers hone. But the trick with lather, or dish soap or oil or whatever, is to lighten the pressure even more, and use a LOT of laps. A LOT. The reason it works is that the lather creates a buffer layer that shields the blade. It lifts it mocroscopically off the hone so that the 8k particles only scratch like 12k deep into the steel. This allows much finer finishing by totally removing the regular 8k scratches from the edge and bevel. Since this reduces the stone's cutting power, the more laps are needed. 1000 is not out of line. Finally, a trick I read in a booklet on honing Kamisoris, by a master of the craft. As a final stage, draw the blade lightly across the hone, moving sideways, so that it is like withdrawing the blade from a hole. Only a few strokes like this are needed, and I would say that 10 would probably be excessive. Obviously if this stage follows lathered honing, you should do this on lather, as well.

Still not sharp enough for you? If you did it right, it should be as good as many honers' 12k edges. But you can go some more. Get a block of balsa about 3" wide and 12" long and paste one side with 1u diamond, the other side with .25u diamond. Strop about 40 laps, very lightly, on each side. Then strop normally on a taut leather hanging strop and your edge will be something to remember.

 

[HLS]

New Norton stones have a "skin" or weird kind of texture on them when they are new. The new surface has to be lapped off or you will never get a useful edge on a Norton. I myself use the Norton 4/8 and shave off of the 8k easily. I also use linen/crox after 8K then leather. Bevels are set with 1K.

Jim