hht problems and my possible solution

[ACorazza]

I'm still very new to honing and can get my razor to shave but it isn't really comfortable yet and I only get a few shaves out of it. I have been honing my near wedge Wade and Butcher on my vintage combo coti. After trying both the coti side and the bbw finishing on both slurry and water only I can never get the razor to achieve a solid hht. Most of the time it wont sever the hair at all. The bevel was set recently so I dont think thats the problem. My technique is lacking and its not the easiest razor to hone but I figured I'd try. Tonight I honed it on the coti side finishing on slurry and then a lot of stropping on my Kanayama, but the test shave wasnt great. It shaved but was not comfortable especially going against the grain.

After the shave I went back to the stones and finished on the BBW(cause I usually get a better edge with it). I started with a thick slurry and half strokes (my slurry stone is a coti) and diluted whent he slurry started to dry out. I ended up finishing on a thin slurry, almost water but the razor would not pass the hht at all. I went to the canvas strop and it didn't really improve so i tried something new. Instead of holding the strop taut I let it slack. after the canvas only the hht improved and the hair started to catch and pop. I continued with the suede and then the leather and I got my best hht to date. The hair would catch and pop, usually the best I get is a violin. I don't have to shave for a few days so I'll report back with a test shave later.

Does anyone else strop with slack and do you notice a difference between this slack and the edge it makes on a near wedge vs a more hollow ground razor? Also how often should you lap coticles because i have had more success with the BBW than with the coti and i'm wondering if it needs to be lapped?
Thanks

 

[noahpictures]

HHT can be a bit tricky with wedge and near wedge razors, at least in my experience. If it shaves arm hair then it's keen enough.

 

[ACorazza]

Thanks for the tip. I also have a 5/8 full hollow that I have the same problem with but I haven't had a chance to try this new technique.

 

[Kentos]

The hair uses for the HHT varies greatly among everyone so you have to go by your HHT and the shave results.

For myself wedges need to pass HHT root in.

 

[ACorazza]

What do you mean by root in?

 

[jpcwon]

What do you mean by root in?

Most people do the HHT with the root facing out; in other words you're holding the tip of the hair between your fingertips. Kent suggests that with wedges, the HHT be done with the tip facing out, or holding the root side in your fingertips...

The HHT has a huge YMMV factor...for me, the failure of an HHT does not necessarily mean that the shave won't be good. I just had a blade last night that I could not get a good HHT from, but it shaved wonderfully..

 

[professorchaos]

Generally, I don't find the HHT useful. If I use it, it is only following a handful of honing progressions and even then to see how the hair was cut, not if it was cut.

If you don't know that the bevel isn't the problem, assume it is. Since it isn't shaving well anyway, try the TNT. If it passes, refinish the edge. If it doesn't, reset the bevel.

Otherwise, you are onto the best path for assessing an edge - how does it shave?

All that said, I've never found Coticule edges to be that great. I like a more lively edge.

 

[ACorazza]

Generally, I don't find the HHT useful. If I use it, it is only following a handful of honing progressions and even then to see how the hair was cut, not if it was cut.

If you don't know that the bevel isn't the problem, assume it is. Since it isn't shaving well anyway, try the TNT. If it passes, refinish the edge. If it doesn't, reset the bevel.

Otherwise, you are onto the best path for assessing an edge - how does it shave?

All that said, I've never found Coticule edges to be that great. I like a more lively edge.

I shaved with it last night after a failed hht and it was able to remove hair but it wasn't comfortable and it left some razor burn. Then I went back to the stones and refinished the edge and stropped it and it was passing the hht. I will shave with it again in a couple of days. Also the razor was generously honed by a member here and brought to shave ready a few months ago. Should the bevel to be reset even if I never purposely dulled it (running it on glass) like I saw in some of the videos?

 

[global_dev]

You could have easily affected the edge to move it away from set status. Can you shave off a stropped 1k edge with it?

 

[ACorazza]

Okay. Thanks again no will try the test shave soon. If it doesn't go well i'll try to reset the bevel

 

[Kentos]

HHT root in just means its REEEALLLY SHARP. Wedges shouldn't be any duller than any other grind IMO.

 

[Doc226]

HHT root in just means its REEEALLLY SHARP. Wedges shouldn't be any duller than any other grind IMO.

Very true.

Wedges still pass the HHT no problems.

 

[Fuzzy Chops]

HHT root in just means its REEEALLLY SHARP.

This image shows the end away from the root. The razor has to be sharper to catch the hair "root in" since the edges of the plates face away. If held with the "root out" the blade can more easily catch the edge of a plate.

 

[professorchaos]

I shaved with it last night after a failed hht and it was able to remove hair but it wasn't comfortable and it left some razor burn. Then I went back to the stones and refinished the edge and stropped it and it was passing the hht. I will shave with it again in a couple of days. Also the razor was generously honed by a member here and brought to shave ready a few months ago. Should the bevel to be reset even if I never purposely dulled it (running it on glass) like I saw in some of the videos?

How many times have you shaved with it since it was honed? Edges don't have unlimited shaves in them, especially when you are learning how to strop and shave.

So there is setting a bevel and re-establishing the bevel. When a razor stops shaving well, I always re-establish the previously set bevel. The distinction is, I suppose, that setting the bevel takes more strokes than refreshing a bevel.

Were it my razor, I'd try the TNT, expecting that it will not convincingly pass. If it doesn't get on your coarsest hone and hone until it passes the TNT. Then it is Coticule time.

 

[ACorazza]

How many times have you shaved with it since it was honed? Edges don't have unlimited shaves in them, especially when you are learning how to strop and shave.

So there is setting a bevel and re-establishing the bevel. When a razor stops shaving well, I always re-establish the previously set bevel. The distinction is, I suppose, that setting the bevel takes more strokes than refreshing a bevel.

Were it my razor, I'd try the TNT, expecting that it will not convincingly pass. If it doesn't get on your coarsest hone and hone until it passes the TNT. Then it is Coticule time.

I hae shaved with it quite a few times maybe twenty. But after the first 15-ish I started touching it up on my coticule. I usually start on a thick slurry and dilute to either thin slurry or water. I do half strokes with pressure on the thick slurry. Would this effectively re-establish the bevel. It also needs a rolling x because the blade has a smile

 

[Thomas Martin]

Coticules suck at HHT but provide the smoothest shaves. I made this experience over and over. No HHT from the stone. But a perfect shave.

 

[Kentos]

I hae shaved with it quite a few times maybe twenty. But after the first 15-ish I started touching it up on my coticule. I usually start on a thick slurry and dilute to either thin slurry or water. I do half strokes with pressure on the thick slurry. Would this effectively re-establish the bevel. It also needs a rolling x because the blade has a smile

A touch up wouldn't need a thick slurry IMO. A light hazy slurry should suffice, or even laps on water.

 

[AjaxLepinski]

I'm in the same boat; I keep dulling any sharpness that I achieve on my coti when I try to finish on stone.
My finishing slurries are too coarse and my technique still needs work.
So, to keep my razors sharp, I bought some 3um and 1um film.
I set the bevel and remove chips on 1K through 8K stones, then finish the edge on 3um and 1um film before stropping.
Film has a shorter learning curve and at least, I'm able keep my razors shave ready, while I'm learning to finish on stones.
Here is a good thread with a lot of information on film: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it

I just ordered a fine, DMT card to work up a finishing slurry on my Welsh Slate and Ozuku stones. These are very hard finishing stones and working up a fine grit slurry, without a DMT card, can be difficult. (thanks JP!)
I hope this helps!

 

[ACorazza]

I just remembered another thing that I tried when I got the better hht was that I refreshed the slurry more than usual. The coti is my only hone and I'm able to shave off of it but I definitely have a lot to learn. If it is too dull to finish I usually just pull out my DE and take te straight back to the coti.

 

[jpcwon]

I just remembered another thing that I tried when I got the better hht was that I refreshed the slurry more than usual. The coti is my only hone and I'm able to shave off of it but I definitely have a lot to learn. If it is too dull to finish I usually just pull out my DE and take te straight back to the coti.

Some coticule users (myself included) are starting to realize that refreshing the slurry a few times while finishing can give you a much smoother shave, so you may be onto something there....just make sure it's a "misty" slurry (thin)..if it's too thick it won't work as well...You should read the "undilucot" thread...there's a lot of good info there on refreshing & finishing on slurry...

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/331884-The-quot-Undilucot-Method-quot